Painting Advice

[John Doherty 126]

I'm going to do some painting!

My painting experience is minimal, used to do the Boys and Girls Club's every year and we would also paint apartments used for temporary housing for homeless families.

This is for a good friend and for no pay but I want to do a top quality job.

It's a home interior that's about 15 years old and nothing has ever been painted. The usual dings and gouges and staining of a house with a single parent and 3 kids. I'm mostly interested in the prep work, do I clean the walls, use a primer, etc.

The existing paint is kind of a cream color and will be covered with the same or darker color.

Any pointers appreciated.

[Tegrey 121]

Hi John,

If the walls are dirty, wash them. Wipe all surfaces as needed. No dirt left. If the substrate doesn't show alot of skuffs and they look pretty good, just paint over them. Prime if the marks are very dark or the color change is quite a difference. Maybe make a test area to see how it goes. Do as much prep work as you feel comfortable with. Fill nicks, nail holes and cracks. After doing the best prep you feel good with, buy the best paint you can afford. Use 100% acrylic. As SW Super Paint, or BM Regal, even ICI Diamond. Probably use an eggshell for cleanability. You don't need to overkill the paint. 100% acrylic is all good. This will last for 5-10 years or till they get tired of the color. Hope this helps.

[Tonyg 14]

The only other thing I would ask would be if the trim is painted or stained. If painted be sure to sand and clean good for better adhesion.

For kids, I would normally recommend the SW Duration Matte. It is a premium paint that will cover those dry walls better and will be a washable surface.

[James 625]

Maybe u Painting Pro's should do a thread on painting prep do's and don't here. You just gave a bundle of info. Good stuff ! And I do hate painting

[cleanhoods 43]

I'm going to do some painting!

My painting experience is minimal, used to do the Boys and Girls Club's every year and we would also paint apartments used for temporary housing for homeless families.

This is for a good friend and for no pay but I want to do a top quality job.

It's a home interior that's about 15 years old and nothing has ever been painted. The usual dings and gouges and staining of a house with a single parent and 3 kids. I'm mostly interested in the prep work, do I clean the walls, use a primer, etc.

The existing paint is kind of a cream color and will be covered with the same or darker color.

Any pointers appreciated.

John first you need to mud all your dings on the walls, then when dry sand all surfaces to be painted, then caulk and puddy all cracks and small holes around trim base boards etc.,if it is painted(the base,trim,crown). After all is dry mask off everything you dont want paint on prime ALL the area to be painted when primer dries your prep work is done then you can paint your top coat.

Marko

[plainpainter 217]

Spackle the holes John - and pole sand them with 100 grit. After you are done pole sanding - get a tack rag and wipe off the dust. Typical living space rooms don't require cleaning - usually you just sand off the any surface stuff.

Only instances you need to clean are bathrooms with women and their aerosols getting all over the walls and other stuff I won't go into but you can imagine.

[chris francis 15]

I'm going to do some painting!

My painting experience is minimal, used to do the Boys and Girls Club's every year and we would also paint apartments used for temporary housing for homeless families.

This is for a good friend and for no pay but I want to do a top quality job.

It's a home interior that's about 15 years old and nothing has ever been painted. The usual dings and gouges and staining of a house with a single parent and 3 kids. I'm mostly interested in the prep work, do I clean the walls, use a primer, etc.

The existing paint is kind of a cream color and will be covered with the same or darker color.

Any pointers appreciated.

That is gate way to being pro painter do it for friend then another you are hucked.;)

[cleanhoods 43]

Spackle the holes John - and pole sand them with 100 grit. After you are done pole sanding - get a tack rag and wipe off the dust. Typical living space rooms don't require cleaning - usually you just sand off the any surface stuff.

Only instances you need to clean are bathrooms with women and their aerosols getting all over the walls and other stuff I won't go into but you can imagine.

You have to sand any surface before the paint but one thing you forgot is primer you always prime and prep before paint.

Marko

[plainpainter 217]

You have to sand any surface before the paint but one thing you forgot is primer you always prime and prep before paint.

Marko

Marko - I am painter by trade, in this instance there is no primer needed. The walls have been previously painted - if you do large patches of mudding/skimming - then you spot prime those areas.

The only reasons for priming if the wall is new - or you have nasty stains you need to 'kill'. If you had 'gloss' sheen on the walls and wanted to go to a flat finish - and you were lazy and didn't feel like sanding, then you would prime. You also prime in order to kill a previous dark color when going to a lighter color. And god forbid if your walls are oil painted - then you reprime them before going to latex. But typical stuff like - no need to prime.

[cleanhoods 43]

Marko - I am painter by trade, in this instance there is no primer needed. The walls have been previously painted - if you do large patches of mudding/skimming - then you spot prime those areas.

The only reasons for priming if the wall is new - or you have nasty stains you need to 'kill'. If you had 'gloss' sheen on the walls and wanted to go to a flat finish - and you were lazy and didn't feel like sanding, then you would prime. You also prime in order to kill a previous dark color when going to a lighter color. And god forbid if your walls are oil painted - then you reprime them before going to latex. But typical stuff like - no need to prime.

I understand you are painting by trade,good for you but all i have done is giving advice.I too know painting very well.Known painting for the last 30 some years.This guy says it has been aroun 15 years since paint has been on it so insteadof half a**ing it the rules are Prep,Prime,Paint.The three P's so remember that painter by trade.

Marko

[plainpainter 217]

I understand you are painting by trade,good for you but all i have done is giving advice.I too know painting very well.Known painting for the last 30 some years.This guy says it has been aroun 15 years since paint has been on it so insteadof half a**ing it the rules are Prep,Prime,Paint.The three P's so remember that painter by trade.

Marko

Well, if you like doing additional steps for the heck of it, by all means go for it. I am talking in terms of professionals in the business, every step has to be justified. If you present to a homeowner the fact you will be doing an additional 'primer' step, trust me - you won't be able to sell it for one penny over what other contractors are quoting.

If the surface is 'sound' then there is no need to prime. I have run into many 15+ year old paint finishes that were fine - just a good solid pole sanding with 100 grit and dust wipe off was all that is needed. There were the typical 80's contractor grade paint done on new construction at the time that could benefit from a clear sealer like Guardz or DrawTite to penetrate the 'chalky' finish all the way down to the sheetrock and re-cement the old finish and give a good base for a new finish. But other than that there is not much reason to prime.

[cleanhoods 43]

I guess that is the way it is done now but the way i learned when i slaved for my dad as a child to adult hood priming always happened.It was just part of the job.Now please believe i am not knocking you this is just the way i learned,i hate painting growing up in that business just plain made me hate it,lol.But i do know the trade very well and preping and priming is a must.

Marko

[plainpainter 217]

I guess that is the way it is done now but the way i learned when i slaved for my dad as a child to adult hood priming always happened.It was just part of the job.Now please believe i am not knocking you this is just the way i learned,i hate painting growing up in that business just plain made me hate it,lol.But i do know the trade very well and preping and priming is a must.

Marko

Marko - I've been involved in the painting trades in one form or another and this blind practice of priming was never part of it. Priming is only done when there is a specific need for it. If you have a previously painted surface, there is absolutely nothing that will be achieved by re-priming it - other than additional materials cost and labor. Unless, there is a specific need for it, as in trying to 'kill' a dark color, improving adhesion properties in instances you are switching from from a previous oil based coating to a latex one - or if you going from high gloss finish to a flat finish. Or if you large water stains or smoke stains you are trying to kill that could bleed into the new finish and/or harm adhesion properties. Or if you have extremely dirty walls like you run into kitchens or bathrooms - where sanding will not remove surface oils that can affect adhesion.

A good instance of re-priming a whole house I did once, is the time where this whole house was always extremely peeling but was painted in semigloss. So after pressure washing, scraping, sanding and spot priming all exposed wood areas with an oil base primer. I reprimed all the clapboards of the home with an exterior latex primer tinted to the final finish. This allowed me to use a 'flat' house paint finish to minimize all the ugly irregular surface from paint buildup and consequent uneven 'failure' of the finish. In this case a primer was needed, since I am painting a flat paint over a semigloss, where surface adhesion is an important consideration.

[cleanhoods 43]

You just said it the reason you prime is to improve surface adhesion.Basically that is what you said and that is what i have been pointing out.SO FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS THERE IS NO SURFACE OILS OR NOTHING????????Prep,Prime,Paint.That is the only way to go and my mind wont change that.It isnt about selling more product but its about doing it completly right the first time.Just like the trade i am in now there are several methods practiced but only one way to complete the job.:D

Marko

[plainpainter 217]

Marko - in 'casual' areas, there isn't enough surface oils that a 100 grit pole sanding couldn't cure. Not to mention the adhesion properties of some these newer waterborne finishes are insane. And other surfaces like doors - where there can be problems, a TSP wash will solve the problem. Re-priming entire walls is the last option you want to consider. Heck a quickie Denatured alcohol wipe, that I have done on numerous occasions, is much quicker,cheaper, and solves all your problems. Heck I've wiped off crayola crayon marks with denatured alcohol - and it leaves the paint surface a bit gooey for a perfect grip for the new paint.

Back to the waterborne finishes. Back in '04 when I was repainting all my sisters doors which were all old oil painted doors - the only way to prep them was a thorough sanding with 100 grit, and I don't mean like 5 minutes - I mean a full 20-30 minutes per side including door jambs, and then a full oil based prime. Before I could repaint them in latex.

Now just 5 years later with these improved waterborne finishes. I have successfully just been able to sand down the old finish and use the newer latex finishes directly on top without any adhesion problems. 5 years ago, this was impossible - things in the trades change. They also have really good self-priming paints now, like Benjamin Aura that you can paint directly on drywall/mud without even priming. Things change all the time.

[cleanhoods 43]

Marko - in 'casual' areas, there isn't enough surface oils that a 100 grit pole sanding couldn't cure. Not to mention the adhesion properties of some these newer waterborne finishes are insane. And other surfaces like doors - where there can be problems, a TSP wash will solve the problem. Re-priming entire walls is the last option you want to consider. Heck a quickie Denatured alcohol wipe, that I have done on numerous occasions, is much quicker,cheaper, and solves all your problems. Heck I've wiped off crayola crayon marks with denatured alcohol - and it leaves the paint surface a bit gooey for a perfect grip for the new paint.

Back to the waterborne finishes. Back in '04 when I was repainting all my sisters doors which were all old oil painted doors - the only way to prep them was a thorough sanding with 100 grit, and I don't mean like 5 minutes - I mean a full 20-30 minutes per side including door jambs, and then a full oil based prime. Before I could repaint them in latex.

Now just 5 years later with these improved waterborne finishes. I have successfully just been able to sand down the old finish and use the newer latex finishes directly on top without any adhesion problems. 5 years ago, this was impossible - things in the trades change. They also have really good self-priming paints now, like Benjamin Aura that you can paint directly on drywall/mud without even priming. Things change all the time.

I guess that is the problem things have changed i guess i have just always primed no matter what even in my own home but i learned this back in the 80's,lol old school huh,lol.But heck you do this by trade and if you feel this new tech.is enough then it is enough.I know i can tell you know some things use oil primer on oil to change over to latex and so on.You just have to feel what i am saying i learned these proceedures a long time ago and practiced it as lately as a few years ago.Paint with primer properties i was wondering if that really works?

Marko

Edited November 27, 2009 by cleanhoods

[cleanhoods 43]

Just an add on i have always done things beyond not enough but beyond.What ever i fabricate,clean,paint,ect. is always how can i say it ,super duty, will be there for years to come that type of thing. I just know these methods has always worked for me and has proven its self in many places.

Marko:);)

[JFife 14]

Dan----

But would the pole sanding be good enough if the wall is textured? That is the thing that always bothers me about a flat sanding---if you have texture, it won't abraid/clean into the low spots of the texture. As well, seems it would "roll" the edges on the texture. (Sidebar: my spell check is showing that "abraid" is not a word? I thought it was?)

JohnD-----IMO, this is the most important step in painting: If you do prime, MAKE SURE to tint your primer to the same color as your paint!! Otherwise, you'll paint 2-3 coats to cover the white primer.

Dan---what do you think about Aura? I can't imagine anything going on to bare drywall and covering in one coat. So IMO, you are still left with two coats.....might as well just prime and do one coat of SuperSpec or something. Thoughts?

Lastly (to all painters) have you ever seen a high-end paint that truly imparted a better IMMEDIATE appearance that a lesser paint? For instance, I painted my house last year.....some rooms have SuperSpec, and some have Regal. My parents built a new home last year and painted with SuperCraft. I honestly can't tell much difference in immediate appearance. I thought I could with the Regal....not sure though....so technically, I guess that means I can't tell any difference. Just curious what you guys look at visually to tell the difference between a high-end paint and low-end.

[plainpainter 217]

Dan----

But would the pole sanding be good enough if the wall is textured? That is the thing that always bothers me about a flat sanding---if you have texture, it won't abraid/clean into the low spots of the texture. As well, seems it would "roll" the edges on the texture. (Sidebar: my spell check is showing that "abraid" is not a word? I thought it was?)

I am not quite sure what you mean by 'texture'? If you mean the roller stipple, then you are going way overboard in worrying about those little

micro valleys. If you mean by texture, a finish that is rough and something that isn't common in the northeast - then I'd consider doing an 'etching' cleaning wash with TSP - or some solvent.

Dan---what do you think about Aura? I can't imagine anything going on to bare drywall and covering in one coat. So IMO, you are still left with two coats.....might as well just prime and do one coat of SuperSpec or something. Thoughts?

Over drywall, you'll need two coats of Aura. Jon - primers are kind of screwy, remember you just wrote to make sure the primer is tinted so-and-so or you will still end up with topcoating several times? I find that one topcoat over primer still never looks quite right. Under certain circumstances if the paint you are using is white or beige {high in titanium pigments} And you are using a super high coverage technology like Aura in a flat or possibly their matte finish - then you may be ok. But if you go into someone's home and they start wanting all these crazy colors in medium or deep bases, or a higher sheen like eggshell or satin, then you are F'd. If anything I learned from this guy Jack Paughl is that you are better going with a clear sealer in drywall if anything - so at least you are able to apply it with minimal labor, and you will get enamel holdout, and you won't be fighting a 'white' finish. Those cheap drywall primers suck up finish paint horribly and don't accomplish any goal I want them to. Heck I've gotten better coaverage from one coat of P&L accolade eggshell paint over bare drywall in one coat than I did when I first primed it with drywall primer and then the paint.

Remember if you are going to 'tint' your primer - then your labor burden will be the same as applying a finish coat - you can't just blanket everything uniformly {trim, ceiling, walls} with a white primer which requires minimal labor - now you are carefully 'cutting' in your tinted primer so it doesn get on the ceilings and woodwork - and it won't be as 'beefy' as an Aura type coating. 2 coats of Aura will look better than 1 coat of tinted primer plus one coat of Aura - unless of course like I said earlier, your walls are a flat finish in a beige off white color only.

Lastly (to all painters) have you ever seen a high-end paint that truly imparted a better IMMEDIATE appearance that a lesser paint? For instance, I painted my house last year.....some rooms have SuperSpec, and some have Regal. My parents built a new home last year and painted with SuperCraft. I honestly can't tell much difference in immediate appearance. I thought I could with the Regal....not sure though....so technically, I guess that means I can't tell any difference. Just curious what you guys look at visually to tell the difference between a high-end paint and low-end.

Sometimes Jon - I think SuperSpec is just a contractor relabel of Regal, a way to give contactors a discount without homeowners getting all uptight they don't get the equivalent discount a painter gets. As to finishes - Aura and Regal have amazing finishes that utterly blow away SuperCraft, SuperSpec can be decent - although a little on the 'thin' side when applying - but superCraft is so apartment like trashy chalky looking cheap paint. And the fumes are horrible to boot. I did an Aura job earlier this year, and the homeowner came in to talk to me for a bit - and I realized, it hardly smelled - it was for an apartment. The renters could move in the next day without having to worry about paint odors.

[Tonyg 14]

Dan----

Lastly (to all painters) have you ever seen a high-end paint that truly imparted a better IMMEDIATE appearance that a lesser paint? For instance, I painted my house last year.....some rooms have SuperSpec, and some have Regal. My parents built a new home last year and painted with SuperCraft. I honestly can't tell much difference in immediate appearance. I thought I could with the Regal....not sure though....so technically, I guess that means I can't tell any difference. Just curious what you guys look at visually to tell the difference between a high-end paint and low-end.

Jon, there are several reasons I use premium paints. 1) marketing and name recognition: sell a Mercedes to someone who can afford it and they will expect that they are getting a higher quality and you have a better chance of making the sale than the Old's salesman. 2) 'workability' or properties that improve application performance, viscosity, coverage, etc. 3) Durability to avoid burnishing, fading, chalking, etc. and that can be washable. Quality paint is tested by mechanical scrubbing for instance and while they all may look great at first the better grade will endure more for longer. 4) Appearance means a tremendous amount to me. If you paint one wall with SuperSpec and one with Aura matte, they will both be a colored wall that looks much better than it did, but IMO the Aura leaves a rich 'sophisticated' sheen and will look better immediately after completion.

For interior paints my primary trim paint is the BM Aura satin finish and walls either the BM Aura matte occasionally depending on circumstances or primarily the SW Duration matte. I will use the BM EcoSpec, SW Cashmere, and the SW SuperPaint if conditions require it. Just like when some decks call for a heavy stripper, more or less pressure, etc., paint products (and preparation and application methods) vary depending on circumstances.

Here's a link that will give a little more info -http://www.paintquality.com/media-center/paint-publications/education/module1.pdf