Calling all chemistry majors...

[RPetry 564]

Got a question. I can purchase straight sodium percarbonate 60 lb. bags at a substantial savings over commercial prepared wood cleaners.

Have seen various mixes for wood cleaners, for example The Chemistry Store publishes the following..

Sodium Percarbonate 80%

Soda Ash 10%

Sodium Tripolyphospate 10%

Another formula I have seen is...

Sodium Percarbonate 80%

Soda Ash 4%

Trisodium phospate 15%

Non-ionic detergent 1%

Question is do I need to use these extra ingredients for an effective cleaner on PT and old fence grade cedar?

Without some big commercial mixer, scales, etc. its a bit difficult to mix throughly and accurately. My hope is that ~98% sodium percarbonate in solution and adding a dash of detergent is acceptable. We always use a citric acid brightener after cleaning.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Aplus 525]

I tried the recipe advertised from the Chemistry Store and found it to be a little weak.

Another chemical needs to be added to give it a little punch.

[PowerPlay 14]

So whats the magic additive?

Thanks,

N8

[PowerPlay 14]

Its like when ppl start to tell you something and the say, oh nevermind. lol

[beyoungsr 14]

I guess you want Tony to do the work for you!

Purchase professional chems and you will likely get professional results.

Learn before you burn!

[PowerPlay 14]

I do both purchase professional chemicals and get professional results. You tell me to learn before I burn, yet you know nothing of what I use now and you decided to burn me. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

I didn't burn Tony, from reading his posts I think he is very inteligent. I was just curious and got left hanging, I will admit when it comes to mixing chemicals I am a novice and I enjoy reading and learning about what chemicals do what.

I'm sorry Tony if you took it that way also.

n8

[Russell Cissell 65]

Rick-

I understand you desire to save on supplies and I would like to make a suggestion. Rather than try to reinvent the wheel, you might consider asking about bulk prices from ESI or another supplier.

The formulations that you get from a place like the chemistry store come from the suppliers of the raw materials. These formulas are usually minimally effective. Then there is also the question of getting the product well blended. I cannot even imagine how difficult it must be to hand mix a 100lb batch of powder!

Your next consideration is liability. By mixing your own solution you are essentially "manufacturing" product and therefore carry full liability for that product. Unless you purchase product liability insurance, you are opened to being sued if there is ever a problem with your mixture. This holds true whether you caused the problem or someone else does. Getting sued is VERY unlikely however it would be devastating.

All things considered it is much easier and less expensive in the long run to purchase ready blended products in bulk. If you purchase in bulk, your cost will be about 1 penny per square foot of wood you restore and your results will be predictable.

If you are interested in more information, feel free to contact me at imrcc1@aol.com

Best of Luck

Russell Cissell

Extreme Solutions, Inc.

[Aplus 525]

Russ has some very valid points. One other I would add is that if you do mix your own chems, be very sure you understand their interactions with each other. Some chems are not meant to be mixed, and can cause fire or explosions when contacting each other.

Once upon a time, I tried mixing some of my own chems with varying results. What I actually discovered is there was very little savings of money to be garnered because I could not obtain good pricing buying raw chems in small quantities. By the time I factored in my time, and maybe less than stellar chemical performance, I found it better to buy most products ready made, and ready to use.

There are exceptions, and some things I do mix myself, but it's not always for cost savings, but rather for performance.

I'm not going to share my recipes here, because it would not be fair to vendors/sponsers here, plus I don't want to be responsible for anybody hurting themselves. Many chems can be very dangerous if not handled properly.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Unfortunately, not all percarbonates are created equal.

I see no surfactant in the mix and alot of filler that adds weight.

Tried and true is what I use and leave the liability to the manufacturers who know what they are doing. (and can afford the insurance)

Rod~

[JustMe 14]

I have been using my own percarb mix and it works good, I don't mix the SP with anything but a little soap and it cleans wood right up with even garden hose pressure and no visable damage or ill effects.

I get my Sodium Percarb from a local chemical place.

[Aplus 525]

Regarding sodium percarbonate mixes, it depends on what you are cleaning and what your expectations are. If the wood is lightly grey with no sealers, then plain sp may work fine. If the wood is greyed a little heavier, or old sealers are presant, then something more aggresive is preferable.

One nice feature about a concentrated product like EFC38 is that you can mix it as weak or as strong as you like, and get the results you need.