Question about linseed oil

[taintedtattoo 14]

Hi guys,, I have been stain shopping for a while now and having narrowed my choices down, I have a question. I have used Ready Seal in the past and did some research about thier product before purchasing. One thing they bragged about is the fact that they don't use and linseed oil because it promotes growth of mildew.. Now I just recieved some info on Armstrong Clark which gets great reviews here, and in the brochure it says they use good old fashion linseed oil in thier product. What gives? how it AC better with linseed oil?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Please add your signature. (settings)

Thanks.

Beth

[Doug Black 18]

Traditionally linseed oil has been avoided and only time will tell if the supposed fortified formula will stand THE test of time.

Most stains will mildewcides are borate based but linseed is a special case for growth. To really assess the new claims you'd have to know the specific chemical or chemicals they are using. If a company doesn't release them then personally I don't use it.

The deck DID look good though!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Doug,

Can you name the popular products out there today that have linseed oil in them?

What product do YOU use?

Beth

[Doug Black 18]

Doug,

Can you name the popular products out there today that have linseed oil in them?

What product do YOU use?

Beth

1. No, are there any?

2. TWP

3. If you know something, why not just say it? :D

If you know something that would show me unfairly biased against it I sure wouldn't mind...

[bigchaz 157]

6 of one, half dozen of another. If you have a quality mildewcide you shouldn't have problem with mildew. If you are referring to AC doug, theres no "new" claims, just a product has been the same for many years. And true "assessing" comes in the field.

[Doug Black 18]

If you could tell me you've got some semi-transparent or transparent up for over two years with no mildew I'd give it a try.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Doug,

I'll ask you another question....will anything prevent mildew from growing on any outdoor surface?

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Traditionally linseed oil has been avoided and only time will tell if the supposed fortified formula will stand THE test of time.

The majority of oil based products contain either linseed or flaxseed oil, mind you, linseed is derived from flax seed. Linseed oil is used in oil-based stains and finishes as a water-proofing agent, helps to bind pigments and it is known to harden wood fibers.

Before the 2005 voc changes and subsequent oil based products reformulations, linseed oil products were quite durable and easily repaired. They have been substantially limited since then and now we have more water borne or water based formulations which use alcohols and alkyd/acrylic formulations many of which are hybrids.

Most stains will mildewcides are borate based but linseed is a special case for growth. To really assess the new claims you'd have to know the specific chemical or chemicals they are using. If a company doesn't release them then personally I don't use it.

The deck DID look good though!

Mildewcides are used in oil based stains and finishes with linseed oil due to the fact that linseed oil is a natural food for mildew.

Borate is only used in a few select stains designed for use on log homes, added as a preservative which acts against fungus growth and is poisonous to wood digesting insects. Keep in mind though, borate is not a formula base in any stain/sealer product but an additive.

What we commonly refer to mildew is actually mold or fungus. Borate in formulations can help in the way a mildewcide does by inhibiting it's growth but since it is activated by water, only works when it is wet. Once dry, borate and mildewcides become inactive.

To answer the initial question of this thread: The question of preferrence of linseed or no linseed is a design of the product itself.

Ready Seal uses a Paraffinic oil which is a non-drying oil. Armstrong Clark uses a combination of paraffinic oil and linseed oil for a dual purpose.

The paraffinic oil (not to be confused with paraffin wax which is also used as a sealer but is much weaker, it is from this wax that paraffinic oil is derived) acts as a moisturizer and conditioner to help keep the wood enriched. As an oil, it also acts as a moisture barrier preventing water absorption. Linseed oil as a drying oil is the waterproofer.

Ready seal does not need a mildewcide whereas Armstrong Clarks by nature does.

Neither is immune to mildew growth as oil based products (especially non-drying formulations) tend to exude oil under conditions which affect the wood dimensionally (heat, moisture/humidity, cold) and as this happens the oil leaves a surface which can be tacky, leading to the capture of spores and pollen which mildew grow upon.

Rod!~

ps, if I missed anything anyone, please feel free to chime in.

[Celeste 341]

Doug,

I'll ask you another question....will anything prevent mildew from growing on any outdoor surface?

Beth

+100 !

[James 625]

Copper based additives prevent mildew the best. Living in the Southwest will prevent mildew growth. Semi solids will do better and your able to clean them for easy maintenance. So the harder the out side shell is and the quicker it dries the less likely you get mildew. I only add the copper.

[Doug Black 18]

Here's a nice picture:

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/16205-one-year-old-twp-stain.html

[James 625]

Pretty interesting read if you plug in" Linseed oil" and do a advanced search then sum reading. How people change, products change and how some don't change. I predict another change of opinion about a product after next year.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Pretty interesting read if you plug in" Linseed oil" and do a advanced search then sum reading. How people change, products change and how some don't change. I predict another change of opinion about a product after next year.

Like I said (by way of my question) there are many products out there with that ingredient. That was kind of my point. Like it or not, it is a standard ingredient, and like it or not the VOC law changes have effected the coatings with that ingredient, across the board. I still will not install an acrylic on a horizontal surface.

Beth

[taintedtattoo 14]

Thank you Rod, you cleared up my confusion.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Tainted...

Please add your signature. House rules.

Beth

[bigchaz 157]

Here's a picture of my first Armstrong Deck which is about 3 years old now. I took these pictures last summer when the deck was bout 2 year 2 months old. This deck gets full sun on the surface so the floor naturally could use a light maintenance coat, but as you can see from the railings and side view where the plants are there is no mildew here. Not sure if thats the proof you wanted Doug, but if you've never used AC, they'll gladly send you a free 5 gallon pail and I think you'll be more than pleased with mildew performance.

I also spoke with Jake from Armstrong Clark since I wasn't entirely sure on the technicals earlier and hopefully it'll help clear some misconceptions up. If the original poster is still around I would say this, at the end of the day just about every major paint and stain manufacturer uses some form of linseed or vegetable oil in some of their products so don't buy into the mantra that linseed oil is inherently bad. I had to check with Jake on the timeline too but Armstrong is going on 11 years now with the SAME formula (with linseed!) so you can definitely be confident about standing the test of time. I doubt people will change their mind in another year, its one thing if a product constantly changes but myself and I'm sure others on here are going on 3-4 years now with the same stain.

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[Doug Black 18]

Here's a picture of my first Armstrong Deck which is about 3 years old now. I took these pictures last summer when the deck was bout 2 year 2 months old. This deck gets full sun on the surface so the floor naturally could use a light maintenance coat, but as you can see from the railings and side view where the plants are there is no mildew here. Not sure if thats the proof you wanted Doug, but if you've never used AC, they'll gladly send you a free 5 gallon pail and I think you'll be more than pleased with mildew performance.

THANK YOU Charlie! Just telling me would have been enough but the pictures are great. I'd say the deck is doing great and would definitely try it.

Do you know if Armstrong Clark is affected by the VOC rules here? Also do you ever cut it any with thinner?

[bigchaz 157]

Doug, the good thing is Armstrong is manufactured in California and to California standards so it has met the 250 VOC requirement for over 10 years now so they are far ahead of most of us Southern states. In fact they switched to the low VOC even before it was required in California.

I've never thinned it for deck work but I have added mineral spirits once or twice when doing really large fences. Obviously it decreases your longevity and lightens the color so I wouldn't recommend doing that regularly. Of course now a days the price of mineral spirits is so high anyway its not even worth it. I just use as is from the can.

[Celeste 341]

VOC rules? HERE? As in North Carolina.....LOL. They aren't here yet! As long as we can get the good stuff off the shelves, the noose tightening hasn't happened.

[Doug Black 18]

VOC rules? HERE? As in North Carolina.....LOL. They aren't here yet! As long as we can get the good stuff off the shelves, the noose tightening hasn't happened.

It's more of a long term maintenance thing; manufacturers might be prone to discontinue non-essential or lower demand product lines...

[Celeste 341]

That's the whole thing with all of these stains...and the dummies that are making the rules. By the time things go into effect, something else will have changed and none of the conversation this week will even apply.

As long as the Carolinas are ass-backward and slow to make decisions - we'll continue using the best product for our purposes.