New Ipe Deck

[Jesse 15]

Can anyone share their experiences with new Ipe lumber?

One of the main guys at the lumber yard is building a new Ipe deck. He was told by the lumber dealer that it must be sanded before sealing. I would like to use Citralic to open the pores and Wood Tux to seal.

I am working on getting them to stock HD80, Citralic, EFC38 and Wood Tux.

Thanks for your help.

Sincerely,

Jesse R. Kirchhoff

Kirchhoff Handyman Solutions LLC

Advanced Power Washing and Restoration Services LLC

114 Forest Hill Ave. Jefferson City, Mo 65109

Local 573-634-8882 Toll Free 1-866-635-2708

E-Mail jessekirchhoff@mchsi.com

[herbie1 14]

Jesse,

I have heard that from other home owners also. Not necessary. There are some threads on this board about ipe do a search. If it has a previous sealer on it I would use HD-80 half strength (4oz per gallon to strip). I would then hit it with citralic full strength (8 oz a gallon). I would look into Cabot's Austalian Timber Oil to seal however as this sealer is made specifically for hardwoods like ipe. Go to cabots.com to look up. Hope this helps and I'm sure others will chime in.

Herb Hewlett

Herb's Pressure Washing

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jesse,

Wood Tux has not been tested on Ipe yet, at least not by us. We suggest applying Cabots Australian Timer Oil.

Let the lumber age maybe 6 month, wash w/ efc, then nuetralize lightly, and seal.

Beth

[Jesse 15]

Thanks guys, I tried the search for Ipe decks...... but got frustrated by all the dead ends

Russ has told me about the long oils in WT......but we never discused using it on hardwoods.

The Cabbots Austrailion Timber Oil is what he planned on using....... I offered to seal it for free using Wood Tux (as a test)

He gave me a sample piece of Ipe (I see why they call it Iron Wood) and I applied WT clear, it is curing now.

Thanks again

[Everett Abrams 501]

Jesse,

If you seal this deck, at some point you will probably do this twice in the first year. After that you will be doing this yearly, at least.Take the advice and let it age and weather first. This is a very expensive species of wood to build a deck with and probably not a good idea to "test" on this deck. Test on pieces around your shop or see what Russell says.

[Jesse 15]

Thanks Everett,

This deck will be screened in when built, and he is looking for a clear product with mildicide. If you think this will be harmful in any way then I will steer him clear of it. He will most likely put it on himself and I will supply the Wood Tux for free.

I have done a sample piece of Ipe that he supplied...... but I really don’t know what to look for in a hard wood like this. It looks great (used the WT Crystal Clear)

Once it has aged properly, do you think Citralic will open up the pores as with other new lumber to save on the sanding? If so I will do this for him also at no charge.

He is very interested in seeing the Wood Tux Crystal Clear in action. He told me about the class action “Mold” lawsuit against Trex decking (he sells a LOT of this stuff) and wants to offer a solution to his customers.

The Trex has been sold as “maintenance free” and his customers are not happy about its tendency to attract extreme mold and mildew.

Thanks again, and your web sight looks really good.

Jesse R. Kirchhoff

Kirchhoff Handyman Solutions LLC

Advanced Power Washing and Restoration Services LLC

114 Forest Hill Ave. Jefferson City, Mo 65109

Local 573-634-8882 Toll Free 1-866-635-2708

E-Mail jessekirchhoff@mchsi.com

[Celeste 341]

Would you minding posting some further information about the class action suit with Trex? My dad had it installed and it's nasty looking already.

Thanks,

Celeste

[James 624]

If its in a screened in porch use Ready seal. Rub it in with Lambs wool. Being in a screened porch it wont weather enough for other products . Wood Tux Is a NO NO. I put some on IPE. It lay's on top..

[James 624]

I was asked to be a expert witness when or if it goes to court.

[Jesse 15]

The man I talked to at the lumber yard said that there was fine print that covered Trex’s ass somewhere on the brochure. The Trex distributer does not point out that fine print and leaves the lumber yard to deal with angry customers.

Around here they were really pushing the stuff hard for a while, I have installed 6 Trex decks of various sizes and in my opinion it is UGLY, weak and definitely not "maintenance free"

Jesse R. Kirchhoff

Kirchhoff Handyman Solutions LLC

Advanced Power Washing and Restoration Services LLC

114 Forest Hill Ave. Jefferson City, Mo 65109

Local 573-634-8882 Toll Free 1-866-635-2708

E-Mail jessekirchhoff@mchsi.com

[Everett Abrams 501]

Jesse,

The Trex issue is a whole other issue. Trex has taken the stance that they do not or have ever sold their product as "maintenance free." They state that their suppliers may sell it that way and that they should not but, Trex does not do this. In any event, this is a link that helps with the class action suit, http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infpressrelease/inftrexlawsuit.shtm

By the way, what Trex does is they send someone to clean the deck(because this is in good faith customer service, HA!) Then they have the customer sign a release document that states that they will not involve a third party. I have worked with their R&D department in the past on the cleaning procedures. It was at that time that it was divulged to me that there are two issues with the product. The first being that they used Red Oak which leached the dark black tannin that you see on these decks. The second is that they had a problem in manufacturing when they started out. When making the planks the wood content of these planks would make their way closer to the surfaces instead of evenly through the plank. This caused the wood content to be closer to the surfaces therefore making the tannins leaching more prevalent. This is a problem that they supposedly fixed with their vats and mixing system. Anyway, this is way off the IPE topic.

I will simply state that on hardwoods I would ONLY use a penetrating oil product. I would not put any semi, solid, or film forming sealer on this species of hardwood. In regards to opening pores of the wood, both acids and sanding open up pores of the wood. If this deck is restored correctly you should not have to sand this wood.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

James, did you apply acetone to the ipe before you applied the Wood Tux? Please advise... I would not suggest applying WT on Ipe without doing that FIRST... this is the same step Sikkens suggest for use with their product.

Cabot does not list the need for this step, however on newer would I would suggest it.

I would not suggest Ready Seal on Ipe. I do not think the oils are long enough. I have worked with several products on Ipe, and like Cabot's Aussie oil best.

Beth

[Jesse 15]

Thanks guys,

I will tell him to stick stick with the Cabot's Aussie oil. I am sure the Cabbot's distributer is going to take good care of him.

[James 624]

Beth how can you suggest when you don't Know. I've done both Assuy and RS. RS works better on a Screen porch. What are you trying to do suck the life out of the wood with acetone. When I by a pruduct . I make samples with all the woods I take care of. Wood Tux didn't work for me on IPe"- Mahog. - Port Orford Cedar.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

How would you know what I know Jim? We were RS users a couple years back. It was not a product we decided to continue with. We moved on to what WE feel are better solutions. Now I NEVER said to use WT on Ipe, I merely suggested that if someone wanted to try it, I suggest using acetone first. I have very, very credible reasons for doing it. I said we suggest Aussie Oil on Ipe. We use three things on various wood species ourselves, we use WT, various Cabot items, and various Sikkens items, depending on the job and customer preference. All are excellent. All three manufacturers make a penetrating oil. In my opinion the Aussie oil is longer than either the SRD or WT. This is why I suggest the acetone, per Sikkens suggestion, for WT and Sikkens alike. I am also very familiar with the resin systems in both of these products. Aussie also seems to have longer oils than RS from our experience with both.

For those reading...

There are long oils and short oils. Shorter oils are found in thicker products. The longer the oil the thinner the product, also the better the penetration. Oil types also play into this. There are different grades of each of these oils, meant for different uses.

Some examples are:

tung oil

linseed oil

alkyd oil

parafinic oil

There are also various resins that can be in a product. It is important to know what difference oils and resins do and what results they will yield.

I'm glad you get such nice results with RS. But Jim, just because we don't use bleach and RS does not make us idiots. We too get excellent results and do great work that lasts as it should.

Have a great day. :groovy3: :groovy2: :groovy:

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Here's a couple decks we did with Aussie oil.

[Celeste 341]

When I look at work like yours and Reed's, I absolutely classify myself as a novice. That being said, in the event there are more than one of me out there who truly do not know the varieties....could you explain exactly what IPE is? I live in PT land so I've not really heard or seen of this IPE stuff and may not know it if it bopped me on the head.

Thanks for not laughing out loud at me - only way to learn is ask the questions, right?

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Oh Celeste, you will LOVE ipe. It's brazillian hardwood, and is dense and beautiful. The grain reminds me a bit of teak. The color can range from a gold to a deep red like a mahogany. I sure hope you get the chance to see some. I'll dig up a photo of a board close up and post it for you. The way you can tell these different types is the distance on the rings, the color, the shape of the rings, the smell (no laughing, I sometimes sniff wood to distinguish between redwood and cedar). Go look at some teak furniture in a store if you have a garden center near you. Run your hands over it, look closely at the grain. You'll see similarities in some of the families of species...

For example - all cedar has a spicy smell. Also knotholes are common.

Redwood the rings are tight, the wood is darker and is soft like cedar if you scratch it with a fingernail, but no spicy smell.

Ipe, teak, Balau, mahogany all have a tighter grain. On Ipe , teak and balau it becomes harder to see the rings. (to me anyway) but the grain looks different on the hardwood.

Pine has wider rings, look at your PT lumber .. look for that arrowhead pattern it has.

Hope this hleps. Let me see if I can find you some pics. Please don't feel silly. We all have a first time we see a wood type.

Beth :groovy3:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Both of these are freshly washed Ipe. Notice one is blonde the other is pretty red. This is common. Also look real close and you can see a faint hint of where a tiny knothole would be. Also notice there is not much to the rings, although some boards will have them. Notice how tight the grain looks. One sure giveaway is look for wood screws. You won't find nails on an ipe deck. I doubt you could nail through the wood.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

For those of you who are wondering what the hubbub is about acetone when working on hardwoods, here is some helpful information.

We all know that Ipe', Teak, Balau, Mahogany, Cherry, Hickory and Ash are hardwoods which acheive their namesake properties due to the density of their structure.

Because the wood is so dense, there is literally not much room for product to penetrate into the substrate. Many products normally designed for use on less dense woods will not last long due to this situation. Water will penetrate because it has 'adhesive' qualities that when combined with the woods fibers, pull on each other. Its a symbiotic relationship.

Now on the other hand, when using a sealer, the oils are likely to penetrate to some extent, but the solids in the sealer are left to fend for themselves on top of the wood where they are susceptible to being easily worn away.

Solids (Manmade resins and pigments) are not necessarily compatible with the ones found naturally in the wood. Since they do not bond very well to each other, this leaves the solids with little to hold onto. So therein lies the problem, how do you give them anything to hold onto?

Acetone helps to temporarily emulsify the natural sugars (resins if you will) in the wood. Applying Acetone to a small area and then applying your product to the same area within 15-20 minutes depending on ambient temps and humidity starts the emulsification of the sugars naturally occuring in the wood allowing the sugars and solids you are about to apply to commingle. As the Acetone evaporates, it allows the two to coalesce and harden. This forms a bond with the wood giving it the ability it needs to last.

The principle is somewhat the same as when using crazy glue. (cyanoacrylate)

You know, the action of breaking 2 surfaces down and allowing them to mix and then reharden forming one continual bond.

While all of this is very interesting, the important thing to remember here is that there is a possibility for other products out there to be used on hardwoods.

Rod~

[James 624]

When I see information that is not good iinformation given and is not based on fact. I will say so. And I only stick up for the use of bleach and how to use it. I bought 60 pounds of pre carbs form you this year ? I most likely from what I see on the boards have more experance with hard woods.Think about this Its easier to use bleach on hard woods than pre carbs. I mean way easier and why do you think that may be ? The harder the wood the bleach works less only killing mildew . Pre-carbs have to work harder ozidizing the grey wood that won't come off. Think of me as a watch dog who can debate just about any wood issue, And I have tried just about everything. So when I say Ready Seal is easier on a porch take that as a big tip! I will send you a sample with RS on IPe' from a porch I stripped of Aussy....

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Great Jim,

Tell us how you do it then!

Let the rest of the bbs know and lets get some feedback from them too!

Rod~

[staudend 14]

Hey Rod n' Beth, on the picture of the 2-tone Ipe and pressure treated, were the spindles pressure treated and the posts and rails ipe? It looks like the everything but the spindles and latice is one color. If so, how did you acomplish that? If you brushed everything separately it had to take forever. I personally would probably not take a job like that unless I was making at least 50 an hour to do it, seems like too much work!! Nick

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yes. Everything gold was pine, the rest was ipe. This was considered a two tone job, and was priced accordingly. It took a while yes, but they were thrilled. I know we will be maintaining that deck for years to come. We padded and brushed everything on that deck, except the lattice, which was sprayed and then padded.

Beth

[James 624]

These are pretty funny and look at some of the rookies!!!