Profit v.s. Not for profits

[John T 744]

Which type of org. If any would you rather join.. A not for profit org or a for profit org?..

Edited November 1, 2011 by John T

[stilloffduty 14]

To help benefit our industry, I would prefer neither.

[Robert Hinderliter 64]

If you are going to be recognized by the Regulators you need to represent a National Non-Profit Organization.

When I founded PWNA it was the result of advice from Regulators who told me that regulations were being written by the National CarWash Association and the Liquid Waste Haulers for our trade! And these organization would create BMPs and ordinances that would benefit their revenue stream, not ours.

I am retired now working for Michael Hinderliter in sales Monday through Thursday.

If you young people do not support your national trade associations guess who is going to write the rules for you to follow?

Not you!

[stilloffduty 14]

That is an incorrect statement. The trade associations are responsible for most of what is wrong with regulations now. We need to fight against representaion that does not benefit contractors. The issues I have had locally have been taken care of by me, and local contractors. Trade associations are typically concerned with what makes them look good. I cannot name one national association that has not been detrimental to contractors. Just my opinion.

[Robert Hinderliter 64]

You might want to go to this link and read what is happening and the time schedule

Planning is Key to MS4 Success As Phase II Deadline Nears | stormh2o.com

Most Municipalities are in their 2nd 5-year plan and our industry is targeted! Just a hint to the wise.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

You might want to go to this link and read what is happening and the time schedule

Planning is Key to MS4 Success As Phase II Deadline Nears | stormh2o.com

Most Municipalities are in their 2nd 5-year plan and our industry is targeted! Just a hint to the wise.

The BMPs listed in the EPA menu fall into the following categories:

Detention/retention facilities

Infiltration practices

Filtration practices

Vegetative practices

Runoff pretreatment practices

"Green" site design

Experimental practices

On-lot treatment

That might be the best thing you have linked too Robert, I hope your understanding that section.

Outfall is key to complete compliance and how I have operated for nearly 27 years. Green built property's are what we all should be striving for.

Pretreatment and hauling a secondary or third measure.

I'm happy you attendee storm com.

Next question and it's just a simple question. Is the Pwna actually a non profit association? It's a question not and attack. I have never received a tin being able to classify any of my donations or membership I have bought. I reach the IRS limit last year and never got the number. I might have been the largest contributor. Well my credit card says I was!!! Of course I wouldn't know how much money anyone else paid.

John before you chime in about me never paying for memberships I might think twice about that statement. My charges have all been on record with bank. My records are meticulous so just and FYI

By the way since this is a thread gone off subject note it was not by me.

If your going to support a trade association join a local community one of business people against this regulation.

No trade association in our current industry can help with local matters.

Because these situations involve population demographics and build regulation each city may have different needs. Coastal city's have specific problems.

Fleet washing to sidewalk cleaning is a different animal.

Our trade association do not even have standards for these simple things much less knowing how to reduce pollution.

20 years of frankly ongoing crap.

Contact local authorities and build outreach programs yourself. Many of the engineers do to stormcom and other smaller organization are forming.

Soon our industry will have a environmental org working responsibly for the industry. It's efforts will be to make awareness to public about cleaners being able to reduce pollution and minimize discharge to the ms4. In most case eliminate.

Profit or non-profit does make a difference , abuse of non profit is world wide. Your actions of how the organization handles and educates the public and members is what will matter. So to answer the original question this really means nothing. Non profits receive benefits from the IRS. Only other non profits care!!

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

[stilloffduty 14]

The link you posted was to a trade article, not the EPA. Be careful of what you read and how it is interpreted. Next thing you know you will have people believing that the EPA says things like "nothing but rain down the drain".

[Ron Musgraves 240]

The link you posted was to a trade article, not the EPA. Be careful of what you read and how it is interpreted. Next thing you know you will have people believing that the EPA says things like "nothing but rain down the drain".

They already do believe that. Nothing wrong with it as long as its not taken literal.

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

[John T 744]

If we can keep this civil let's have a good lively discusion about this. Where I live almost 37% of 3,000,000 people work in the non profit sector on long Island. One of the most powerful one of all here is the LIA Long Island Association, Inc. - LIA in the News

There leader is a star. His name is Kenneth Law. Kenneth could be a strong president candidate if he want to ever run. Read what this association is all about and look how far they have came.

They just had Mayor Rudulph Gulliani and Joe Torre speak at there convention... No they didn't get a Ruth in there but the PWNA did. The LIA had past presidents speak at there conventions.... And why is that?? Because Kenneth law is a star. He lobbied over $220,000,000 worth of work for his members. He knows how the game works. I met one of the groups involved in there and there not for profit has over a 1000 members. I just met that guy when I was on a booze cruise around Manhattan last month for a fundraiser and they were so intrigued to meet with Linda Ruth Tosetti... But She's ours after a spoke to her for hundred of hours about the world of Powerwashers.

Kenneth Law makes aprox $1,000,000 a yr and he has over 60 board of directors and there job is to create as many benefits as they can for there members... And they now how to do it by working within the Gov't Guidelines to secure work.

William page will never understand this. LIA also if you read there site they also have a large group health plan for there members.... Can William Page do that for people.... NO... And he doesnt have to because he elects not to be a part of a working system... His choice.

So non profits work. Robert is right on. They get tax breaks for a reason.... And part of that is they have to follow strict guidelines. Some don't and off to Jail they go... Just like any other crook.

[John T 744]

The biggest difference is this. A non profit is built for the greater good of a group. The profit is built for the greater of the one. This is why the NCE would work for Ron because he can call all of the shots like most business people who own a business want to do. in Roberts case he works for a "Not for Profit" org because he wants to be a part of something that works for the greater good of a group. Huge difference there ... Real huge. Robert personal business like all of ours is a profit type where he wants to make money for his family.

To get way more accomplish on a grander scale for many is the non profit. Powers to be will listen, grants are easier to get, tax breaks are plentiful if you play by the rules....

So simply put on a large scale to get work done that you want to be recognized for it... You do it in a non profit format and I think Robert has this all figured out.

I'm already aiming hi again soon because the PWNA's next convention is in Florida... Which is still Jeb Bush Country who still resides in Miami Fl. I'm going to reach out thru the year to see how I can get the Bush pres. Or there brother to possibly recognized the PWNA or more importantly for me at this time is to Recognize Robert for his Environmental studies and conclusions that are the basic standards in many area and these standards can be tweaked to where they have to be all thru-out the country....

And truth be told... I almost had Peter King who was going to recognize Robert... And due to time restrictions.. I lost that one when I had it.... Reason why Linda came thru so big for Robert and Joe.. Because she felt my pain...

So don't count me out.... And no doubt its time a 20 yr old national org takes charge to help benefit it's members and also the industry because they will become known... Schizz congress knows of them already as they do with Robert.

All the other stuff like NCE and many others who are privately held I wish them luck. I might even take one of Rons Certifications but if you want me for free then I have to get a benefit that will help the masses and on the profit end I can't see how you can sell that with the all mighty buck being the main goal.

This is going to be fun.... Quick note the PWNA has signed over a hundred new members already... So get ready... No games in here.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

The biggest difference is this. A non profit is built for the greater good of a group. The profit is built for the greater of the one. This is why the NCE would work for Ron because he can call all of the shots like most business people who own a business want to do. in Roberts case he works for a "Not for Profit" org because he wants to be a part of something that works for the greater good of a group. Huge difference there ... Real huge. Robert personal business like all of ours is a profit type where he wants to make money for his family.

To get way more accomplish on a grander scale for many is the non profit. Powers to be will listen, grants are easier to get, tax breaks are plentiful if you play by the rules....

So simply put on a large scale to get work done that you want to be recognized for it... You do it in a non profit format and I think Robert has this all figured out.

I'm already aiming hi again soon because the PWNA's next convention is in Florida... Which is still Jeb Bush Country who still resides in Miami Fl. I'm going to reach out thru the year to see how I can get the Bush pres. Or there brother to possibly recognized the PWNA or more importantly for me at this time is to Recognize Robert for his Environmental studies and conclusions that are the basic standards in many area and these standards can be tweaked to where they have to be all thru-out the country....

And truth be told... I almost had Peter King who was going to recognize Robert... And due to time restrictions.. I lost that one when I had it.... Reason why Linda came thru so big for Robert and Joe.. Because she felt my pain...

So don't count me out.... And no doubt its time a 20 yr old national org takes charge to help benefit it's members and also the industry because they will become known... Schizz congress knows of them already as they do with Robert.

All the other stuff like NCE and many others who are privately held I wish them luck. I might even take one of Rons Certifications but if you want me for free then I have to get a benefit that will help the masses and on the profit end I can't see how you can sell that with the all mighty buck being the main goal.

This is going to be fun.... Quick note the PWNA has signed over a hundred new members already... So get ready... No games in here.

Thats great John you sign on a 100 new members , that's great so we are approaching the 400 mark your saying. Because last sept we had 256. Love to see confirmation with Jackie.

We realize Robert has done a great job. I'm happy I heard he actually talked about compliment work places. It's getting better the message.

The Pwna has been near the 400 mark. The Pwna has certified 1000s over 20 years.

Let's hope we all can have a good non profit or profit org in the future.

Nce has run several hundred thru training and certs. Many Pwna members along with Pwna training.

Nce launched the current enviro program in 2009 at event in Alabama. (FYI) With Robert

Nce is not a competitor John , we resurrected this org over the last 18 months. I received and award for it John. Yeah!!!!

We are a profit co. We will remain one until we close the doors.

We have raised more money for charity in four years than most of these non profits have raised in 20 years.

I will donate 100% of any training I do personally to charity.

Yeah John I'm bragging, why because at the end of the day my company along with my partner have made a greater impact on this industry than most have in 20 years.

This is no disrespect to the founders because they can't do much after being kicked out by others in the industry. This is what's wrong with the non profit. No one has any control and vision is all over the place. The next president will foil the idea from this one and the vicious cycle continues.

The Pwna has been kept small and looks like it will remain small, unless it's actually profit and someone forgot to tell you.

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

[stilloffduty 14]

If we can keep this civil let's have a good lively discusion about this. Where I live almost 37% of 3,000,000 people work in the non profit sector on long Island. One of the most powerful one of all here is the LIA Long Island Association, Inc. - LIA in the News

There leader is a star. His name is Kenneth Law. Kenneth could be a strong president candidate if he want to ever run. Read what this association is all about and look how far they have came.

They just had Mayor Rudulph Gulliani and Joe Torre speak at there convention... No they didn't get a Ruth in there but the PWNA did. The LIA had past presidents speak at there conventions.... And why is that?? Because Kenneth law is a star. He lobbied over $220,000,000 worth of work for his members. He knows how the game works. I met one of the groups involved in there and there not for profit has over a 1000 members. I just met that guy when I was on a booze cruise around Manhattan last month for a fundraiser and they were so intrigued to meet with Linda Ruth Tosetti... But She's ours after a spoke to her for hundred of hours about the world of Powerwashers.

Kenneth Law makes aprox $1,000,000 a yr and he has over 60 board of directors and there job is to create as many benefits as they can for there members... And they now how to do it by working within the Gov't Guidelines to secure work.

William page will never understand this. LIA also if you read there site they also have a large group health plan for there members.... Can William Page do that for people.... NO... And he doesnt have to because he elects not to be a part of a working system... His choice.

So non profits work. Robert is right on. They get tax breaks for a reason.... And part of that is they have to follow strict guidelines. Some don't and off to Jail they go... Just like any other crook.

Really John? Why do you have to make it personal? If you can't keep this civil I will have to have this thread closed. Thank you for pointing out how a trade associaction could become so powerful that it controls 33% of the work force. Let us all hope the PW%A keeps certifing people to clean roofs with high pressure and hydroxide and spying on contractors. We need little things like that to help contractors see thru the mirror at what could happen to them if they join such groups. Thank you for you tireless effort in exposing these threats John.

[John T 744]

Hey Ron.. I'll get back to this later. You can see the huge difference from your mindset to mine...and more power to ya and congrats on your awards... But I never signed up anyone to any org and I'll never take credit for other peoples jobs in a non profit. Thats the mindset of profits to non profits. We think for the group.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Hey Ron.. I'll get back to this later. You can see the huge difference from your mindset to mine...and more power to ya and congrats on your awards... But I never signed up anyone to any org and I'll never take credit for other peoples jobs in a non profit. Thats the mindset of profits to non profits. We think for the group.

Great John

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

[John T 744]

Hey Ron... The PWNA will continue to move forward. That's the impression now many are getting. We all know they hit a few bumps in the road... But there still here going on 20 yrs. Many companies do certifications and people will have to decide what works best for there company and the ones who give it will they back it up if the company needs them to.

This is where I like the fact that a national org is behind endorsing some of these certifications because that adds alot more weight IMHO....... Hey good luck with NCE and certifications.. Your willing to back them that's good for the ones taking them. That's what I like and on top of that I have a national org's backing to.

This next year is going to be fun with the PWNA...hope to see you in Florida at there next convention...

[John T 744]

The Pwna has been kept small and looks like it will remain small, unless it's actually profit and someone forgot to tell you.

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

I only know one person in the industry who says this Ron and your it. All the Vendors I talk to that go to the PWNA conventions and are PWNA vendors they would never believe that and its a ground ball to see that. Your the only one who says they want to remain small... You probably want them to remain small but not one PWNA member has ever said that... Not one.

[stilloffduty 14]

I said that, Tony said that, SJ said that. Many have said that. We are/were members that said that. Just helping you with the fact check. Most know the real reason, some just overlook it for other benefits. Each to his own .

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Hey Ron... The PWNA will continue to move forward. That's the impression now many are getting. We all know they hit a few bumps in the road... But there still here going on 20 yrs. Many companies do certifications and people will have to decide what works best for there company and the ones who give it will they back it up if the company needs them to.

This is where I like the fact that a national org is behind endorsing some of these certifications because that adds alot more weight IMHO....... Hey good luck with NCE and certifications.. Your willing to back them that's good for the ones taking them. That's what I like and on top of that I have a national org's backing to.

This next year is going to be fun with the PWNA...hope to see you in Florida at there next convention...

John will all see in the coming years , you see the larger the association the larger the industry. We all would benefit, I more than anyone stand to gain. The larger the better.

You see Pwna gets larger or any trade org grows Nce grows.

We are no different than joe walters. We prosper off a larger association.

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

[John T 744]

John will all see in the coming years , you see the larger the association the larger the industry. We all would benefit, I more than anyone stand to gain. The larger the better.

You see Pwna gets larger or any trade org grows Nce grows.

We are no different than joe walters. We prosper off a larger association.

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

now your gettng it Ron. Your words above. Your not the only one who can benefit if your a pwna member..all PWNA members will benefit thats why you may see a large membership climb. Good to see you understand this.. And no one who cares ever believed in your "They want to stay small theory"because like your words say above and now you understand.. Us PWNA members and our Vendors benefit greatly when we keep growing.... Enjoy the ride and Keep marketing your Membership like Kory did in that article about him. Smart man... And No PWNA is not your competitor. Feel free to re-join so you can benefit to.

[tonyshelton 112]

Back to the EPA issue.

The Power Sweepers association has done a good job of taking an offensive posture and has convinced the EPA that they are their biggest ally. They didn't do this by coming together and showing how they can "reduce" the pollution they "create". They did it by showing that contaminates left alone, will wash down the storm drain and have placed themselves as a friendly force to help reduce that contamination.

This relationship didn't happen overnight. It was the result of years of putting up the fight to show the EPA the extend of their ability to combat pollution. We've had 20 years and we are still presenting ourselves as evil polluters that have to be corralled with strict regulations. Where has the lobby been to present us as an ally in keeping the environment clean?

They don't have to deal with a bunch of ridiculous BMPS that double the workload and the cost of the jobs. That would be self defeating for the industry AND for the municipalities. Sweeper trucks in the summer put down far more water directly into the street than most of our rigs do. But yet they work with impunity because someone in their industry was smart enough and connected enough to put them in an OFFENSIVE rather than a DEFENSIVE light.

The worst thing they have to deal with at this point is the air pollution issue. But they have won over their opponents on this matter too in just about every area but California. I've been keeping an eye on them for 2 years now. I'm interested in the ways they go about tackling the problem. The first thing they did was produce their own independent studies.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

now your gettng it Ron. Your words above. Your not the only one who can benefit if your a pwna member..all PWNA members will benefit thats why you may see a large membership climb. Good to see you understand this.. And no one who cares ever believed in your "They want to stay small theory"because like your words say above and now you understand.. Us PWNA members and our Vendors benefit greatly when we keep growing.... Enjoy the ride and Keep marketing your Membership like Kory did in that article about him. Smart man... And No PWNA is not your competitor. Feel free to re-join so you can benefit to.

The difference is that it's a profit corp not non profit. So control can be maintained. Yes I get it!!!

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Back to the EPA issue.

The Power Sweepers association has done a good job of taking an offensive posture and has convinced the EPA that they are their biggest ally. They didn't do this by coming together and showing how they can "reduce" the pollution they "create". They did it by showing that contaminates left alone, will wash down the storm drain and have placed themselves as a friendly force to help reduce that contamination.

This relationship didn't happen overnight. It was the result of years of putting up the fight to show the EPA the extend of their ability to combat pollution. We've had 20 years and we are still presenting ourselves as evil polluters that have to be corralled with strict regulations. Where has the lobby been to present us as an ally in keeping the environment clean?

They don't have to deal with a bunch of ridiculous BMPS that double the workload and the cost of the jobs. That would be self defeating for the industry AND for the municipalities. Sweeper trucks in the summer put down far more water directly into the street than most of our rigs do. But yet they work with impunity because someone in their industry was smart enough and connected enough to put them in an OFFENSIVE rather than a DEFENSIVE light.

The worst thing they have to deal with at this point is the air pollution issue. But they have won over their opponents on this matter too in just about every area but California. I've been keeping an eye on them for 2 years now. I'm interested in the ways they go about tackling the problem. The first thing they did was produce their own independent studies.

Frankly it's disgusting we are still telling regulators and contractors we pollute instead of we reduce.

Power sweepers have made regulation with munis beneficial to there industry.

20 years we are way behind all sectors of the cleaning industry.

Part of the problem John is your stand on Pwna this and Pwna that. There's way more out there, but for 20 years they have not worked with much of anyone.

Nce has worked With three university's and so many regulators in outreach we lost count.

Spreading the word no off property discharge in the most responsible. While national org miss guide this industry into close loop as the end all.

Stop talking about how Robert suggest use socks swimming pools and other forms of devices while at the end of the day he tells regulators in his opinion it's except able amounts. That doesn't work!!

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

[John T 744]

The difference is Robert has been dealing with regulators and working with them in educating them to help come to a rational solution for upwards to 20 yrs now. NCE has neen around what 2-3 yrs and suddenly there the authority in it all.. Robert is so very well known in this Ron when it comes to Environmental cleaning way before you ever even mentioned that word. He is so very well known in this field where no one knows who you are besides the Internet.

Face the facts he is and we'll remain in history in this industry as the one who stepped out front and Center in Environemtal cleaning probably when you were still in diapers.

You can't change history and that is what I'm dealing with right now. Maybe you should learn to respect some history instead of saying your are historical. On this one Ron no matter where NCE heads or where they end up or how rich you get from it... You were no where to he found when Robert first started on his trail to do the right thing. You should give him the respect he deserves. But then again you thought the Ruth thing was phony baloney to... And now you want to thank Linda personally.. For what?? Her camp has done there due diligence like you should and they already know about Robert by what he has done.... And your in the industry and you won't even respect that..

Except this for what it is... And it's a good thing... And no you can't change or alter.... History..not even in the Powerwashing field.

But please do.. Come to next years PWNA's convention and see history happen. I'm still working on getting Robert if I can the recognition he deserves... And you'll want to be a part of that one for sure. Your to smart to blow another opportunity.. At least I think you are. See ya in Fla next year. I'm sure you'll be there.. Yup I'm that confident on it. you'll be there:)

[Ron Musgraves 240]

The difference is Robert has been dealing with regulators and working with them in educating them to help come to a rational solution for upwards to 20 yrs now. NCE has neen around what 2-3 yrs and suddenly there the authority in it all.. Robert is so very well known in this Ron when it comes to Environmental cleaning way before you ever even mentioned that word. He is so very well known in this field where no one knows who you are besides the Internet.

Face the facts he is and we'll remain in history in this industry as the one who stepped out front and Center in Environemtal cleaning probably when you were still in diapers.

You can't change history and that is what I'm dealing with right now. Maybe you should learn to respect some history instead of saying your are historical. On this one Ron no matter where NCE heads or where they end up or how rich you get from it... You were no where to he found when Robert first started on his trail to do the right thing. You should give him the respect he deserves. But then again you thought the Ruth thing was phony baloney to... And now you want to thank Linda personally.. For what?? Her camp has done there due diligence like you should and they already know about Robert by what he has done.... And your in the industry and you won't even respect that..

Except this for what it is... And it's a good thing... And no you can't change or alter.... History..not even in the Powerwashing field.

But please do.. Come to next years PWNA's convention and see history happen. I'm still working on getting Robert if I can the recognition he deserves... And you'll want to be a part of that one for sure. Your to smart to blow another opportunity.. At least I think you are. See ya in Fla next year. I'm sure you'll be there.. Yup I'm that confident on it. you'll be there:)

John I've been attending the conventions since the Pwna was started again by Daryl and Paul. Attended the first convention since the org was revived and Robert was accepted back in. You see history is just that history.

What's this got to do with profit or non profit everything.

In a non profit you own a piece of the org. The bod works for its members and there interests.

In this org that frankly doesn't happen. Despite some good people involved in this organization there's a bit of confusion to how that really works.

Keep on posting John and stop closing threads.

Ron ********** text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute

[John T 744]

Ron what your not seeing is that these guys care. No one subscribes to your theory that they want to stay small. What convention did you go to that Robert had to be accepted back in? Your giving out misleading info. You call alot of people but your facts get skewed. I was there if you remember correctly when there was something going on concerning Robert.

I was also there when Jean Hendricks was on the Convention committee chair which I served on and the idea came up to name two major awards in the PWNA after Robert Hinderliter and Joe Walters.

I can't figure you out Ron and I gave up trying. The PWNA gave you one of those awards and you talk about when Robert was accepted back in.. I accepted in your behalf the ***** plaque for the *** and send it to your crew and the response was it got thrown out in the garbage... The Babe Ruth Plaque you pretty much tell me to stick it...

Eric Clark, Dan Galvin,Charlie Arnold, Jackie T..and on and on in there care. Your information is misleading..

Tell me which distributor goes to the PWNA Convention believing what you say about the PWNA?

Hey look Ron if you don't believe in them...good. Nobody is asking you to. Robert to the PWNA is an Icon. They still to this day give out the highest contractor award in his honor...not Ron ********** honor. Cut the man some slack and stop leading with all your post that when he got accepted back in and nothing but negative.... Everything.

What is it that you want? I See you on PWN all over the place cracking about the PWNA as soon as they lifted your 10 yr ban..

When you got some real constructive facts bring them out....instead of trying to tear things down.. Oh yea Cute remark about telling me to stop closing post.. Once again..negative.

No more Ron. You do what you do... And I'll do what I've always done.. Try to help people out without tearing them down.

[cleanhoods 43]

I am glad i don't waste my money on this mess too political for me. Just simply a money racket.The big wigs benefit off the little guys in turn they market more restrictions in turn more small guys come in to learn how to get around these restrictions and the big vendors are suddenly there waiting to hook the little guy for all your buck...the sewage plant dumps more waste and crap in our rivers and oceans then any pressure washer will amount to.Now don't get me wrong containment is nice and in some cases necessary...but our biggest problems is the equipment we use that puts out more pollutants then any power washing will ever do.

Regulations is just a fancy word to make money for non profits AND profits.The profits make it for there self with the benefits of staying ahead of the game and the non profits is the same but in a secretive fashion making there profits through vendors and selling paper. All a waste of time and money in my opinion.

Hey here is an idea lets invent a wand to magically make the pollutants that we remove to save our environment just disappear.

A carpet van for example where does there waste go ......while they are driving it is dumping...and the street sweepers where does it go...in a dumpster and drains out in the lot.....and many business dump there mop water right out the back door.....you can go on and on and on about the problems with our environment.The more we make things to clean the environment and protect the more we pollute it.Yes the factory that makes the equipment to protect our environment is polluting to make it and yes the ones claiming green drives down the road in there gas/Diesel machine and fires up there gas/Diesel machines and all those machine already polluted the air when they where made.

The problem with environment is only one simple thing HUMAN BEINGS. Cut humans down and pollution goes down.

All the waste contained still goes to the environment or do they store it in barrels like nuclear waste?

My opinion don't go for neither but do the right thing for sure be honest and respect your fellow human and simply do the right thing..you know right and wrong just do it you don't need no fancy place telling how and what to do when you simply already know...don't forget everything non profit or profit is about the money...fact!!

Edited November 6, 2011 by cleanhoods