PWNA was ask to make another presentation at the MS4 Conference Regional 6

[Jim Gamble 20]

Chris, you are right, while I knew about this conference, and had discussed attending with Ron, and later we decided we really did not need too, I should have posted in case anyone else wanted to attend.

According to the statement above, I am sorry Ron that you and the ***** have chosen not to attend the once a year Regional 6 Event for storm water issues and enforcement held in Dallas.

Allot of issues for restrictions was coming down the pipe line to the Cities such as Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City etc.

Police enforcement was being considered to all cities in the region with possible funding coming from the Feds. Cities in the region was considering following Houston's Lead at the conference. Stopping these issues at the source save everybody allot of resources, headaches and money.

Many thanks are owed to the PWNA and Robert Hinderliter for putting these issues down and out before they got momentum which would of affected all washers in Region 6.

[John T 744]

Hey Chris most contractors do not belong to orgs. There's nothing wrong with that. There's also contractors that believe in orgs. Reason why The PWNA has been around for 20 yrs. There 250 strong who believe in them right now.

You don't seem to be a fan of orgs and that's fair. The two guys you keep praising apparently believe in some type of org because they are the two top leaders of an org. There also vendors. One owns NCE and the other one owns a school, sells products and is looking to certify contractors because he is an NCE Certified instructor. At least that is what his signature says he is.

Why is it that you say contractors this and contractors that but you overlook those two who are bigtime Vendors in there businesses as they are contractors?

The PWNA has guys that do both as well. The founder of the PWNA was a contractor at one time as well. You have to be fair here in what your saying because the two guys your always referring to are Vendors as well.

Another thing because I was apart of the *****'s past and there contractors for contractors was a neat saying but OT proved to not work. Contractors were also becoming Vendors and to think it's purely contracting alone in all this that counts-- doesn't work. Vendors and Contractors have to work together or the system fails as you saw what happened.

You can try to pull the wool over peoples eyes that there are only contractors that should be listen to but when those contractors now become the certifiers and own schools or expos there now vendors.

They need to intertwine in a fair way or the system fails and that's exactly what caused the last failure of the *****. Nobody trusted anyone in there after awhile and you can't kid yourself any longer. This industry is about the Contractors, Vendors, and everything in between. There is no just contractors alone---- doesnt work because those contractors alone will become Vendors also somewhere in the Mix so they can teach,sell or whatever to there own members.

The whole thing is frustrating and alot of contractors just don't want to be bothered by it all....but... You look at other industries such as my fathers where he manufactured fume hoods for hospitals etc and fabricated laboratory furniture as well for them, they belonged to organizations. They went to shows as a vendor and many hospital reps,contractors etc went to the same Conventions.

If your goal is to stay a one man operation or not to get involved with environmental type commercial work or just want to stay small and manageable then maybe orgs dong work for you. But in my case because I am a small profitable contractor and with no plans to get much larger orgs work for my business because I market them, Network thru them and sometimes get work thru them via the last two.

But to think it's all about the contractors and we rule the world--it won't work and the ones you see dropping out the most are the contractors and that is a big part of the problem because they get toasted by it all. These are good guys I'm talking about who just get burnt out.

Solution?? Level the playing field and bring them all in. Don't drive away the Vendors/distributors, don't drive away the Contractors/Vendors and sure as heck don't drive away the contractors!! Don't Alienate and stop the blame game.

That's the solution and go from there. That's the way I see this all after dealing with alot of it. Nothing else works.

This is why I don't worry about helping contractors or Vendors if I can and they also reciprocate it back. Those contractors and Vendors will never hurt my business because there professional like I am... But there are a certain type of contractor that actually hurts my business and I deal with them all the time. It's the ones who know nothing, don't care to know much and don't play by the rules. They are uninsured, unlicensed if there is a lic. Requirement, and really unqualified because they'll charge bottom price because they just don't know and they will LOWBALL the heck out of jobs and they get a few then they disappear because they failed. And that cycle at a greater rate is coming around more and more every year and those guys are the only ones I'm concerned about just a little because I may lose a potential job because of them.

Long post but that's the way I see it.

[Christopher 102]

Maybe that should have been several posts, I could not keep my concentration reading that post John, sorry.

I will go back and try reading it again another time.

It is ok John, there are many opinions and attitudes here on the various sites, some post a lot, some don't post much at all.

It is really great meeting contractors from all around the world at the many events all around the country and most of them are not members of the orgs, when you have 100's at most of the events that are not members of the orgs, that is clearly stating something, people either don't have the money to join, have not been educated on the benefits of the orgs, don't trust the orgs or other reasons out there, these are the most common that I have heard in the past few years.

It is ok that I am not a member of the orgs yet John, don't let that ruin your day, it will be ok. I might join one day but that day will be when I choose to join, not because of the org's popularity or who are members there or other reasons that are not mine, you should not worry so much that I am not a member right now, it might happen soon, who knows, maybe I might join both and go on the cruise for a little get away, who knows? It might be interesting out on a big boat, not sure right now on either yet.

As for contractors and vendors whether contractors are vendors or not, that really does not matter to me, it does not keep me up at night, it does not bother me, it does not affect me in any way whatsoever. If a contractor wants to be a vendor then that is ok for them, that is what they want to do and nobody here or on any other site should not have a problem with that, nobody should try to harass them or bash them because they want to sell stuff, a while back Beth and Rod used to sell stuff, I remember at the Dallas PWNA convention I talked to Rod about some tools and extend a wands so being a vendor and contractor is not a bad thing. It is ok John. I might start selling some new stuff that just came out, who knows? Not sure right now but anything is possible.

Nobody should be harassed, insulted, blacklisted, bashed or treated differently because they are both a vendor and a contractor no matter what bbs they post on, people should be treated fairly no matter if they sell stuff or not. Now if they are selling junk that is worthless or chemicals that are watered-down and don't work or other reasons to tell other contractors then I have no problem with telling the truth, it can be the truth of what you are saying but without the bashing and harassing. Luckily we have not had major problems with those kind of issues lately.

Have a great evening John, I think you need to rest after playing balls all day and soak in the hot tub so you are not sore tomorrow.

[John T 744]

lol very good Chris. I relax reading your long post. Caught every bit of it while I was doing a few other things. Just the way it is with me. Do not know where you and I are misreading each other but dont sweat it. Dont waste your time reading my post if there longer then a sentence because you know me I never change. I Always tell it straight.

Hey on a happier note because this is about the Children check out the pics of Linda throwing out the first ball and against all odds I caught it. This was for a charity for children with Autism. When I get the picture I'll post Linda wearing the PWNA hat for ya:wink:

[Christopher 102]

That is good, hope you guys raised a lot of money for the kids, it is great to help out the kids.

[John T 744]

I was told that my old Union and the Charity raised around $25,000 for these kids. Sometimes persistence pays off and people are better off for it. I'm going to another Charity event Nov. 9th for Breast Cancer In Manhattan and it looks like Susan Sarandon most likely is going and Robert DeNiro right now is a maybe. My brother inlaw is involved in that one and every day him and I text to see what else can be done there. Getting involved in things when they work is the best and in mine and my brother inlaw who both work our tails off money doesnt drive us when it goes to help others. He's special no doubt but as for me I just like to stay busy with things. I'm also glad guys like yourself no matter how much we disagree you were still able to get something from someone who is all about giving back. Look for her email when I post the pics. Just shows a little more what makes some people so special no matter who they are.

[Jim Gamble 20]

Not a member John...Haven't been one for several years!

I am confused...

Don't you Carlos have a life time membership in lou of the hard work you did for the *****. I remember all of those hours you spent working, trying to get members to hear you on the views of what the ***** stood for. Because of you, the ***** was strong and with a clear voice. I think you told me that you had over 300 members at one time.

I know the transition team all have life time memberships as well as you...right? When People think of the *****, they think of you. Carlos, it was your baby.

[John T 744]

Jim there was no lifetime memberships in there. The TT staff had a 5 yr membership and they all deserved it. Couldn't tell you where they stand with all that anymore but it was a good run a few of us had that was highlighted by the Convention. Enjoyed that experience.

[Jim Gamble 20]

Jim there was no lifetime memberships in there. The TT staff had a 5 yr membership and they all deserved it. Couldn't tell you where they stand with all that anymore but it was a good run a few of us had that was highlighted by the Convention. Enjoyed that experience.

I stand Corrected....

Thanks John for clearing that up for me. I know it was unclear to allot of contractors that I talked to.

[newlook 265]

I am confused...

Don't you Carlos have a life time membership in lou of the hard work you did for the *****. I remember all of those hours you spent working, trying to get members to hear you on the views of what the ***** stood for. Because of you, the ***** was strong and with a clear voice. I think you told me that you had over 300 members at one time.

I know the transition team all have life time memberships as well as you...right? When People think of the *****, they think of you. Carlos, it was your baby.

Nope...not a member and I will leave it at that.

I will say that I do support the current board collectively in their efforts and look forward to hearing/seeing their plans. I do plan to rejoin and well as join the PWNA in the near future.

and yes the membership was either 260 or 360!!!

[John T 744]

I hope you come back Carlos. Love to see you in the PWNA as well. You have alot of friends in there. In this industry since the 14 years now I've been on the net in here I have never seen anything come as close as far as members joining and a great Convention in a matter of no time when you were at the helm. That period was a major success--- I always thought you would come back-- When your ready if you wanted to.

[Adrian 155]

Hey "Los,

good to see you. Been a while.

A big plus to your time and efforts.

Actually almost was influenced to join at one point because of you.

But, have realized that if I joined an org, that I would lose my rebel/ maverick monniker,

which personally at this point I am oppposed to.

Kidding of course.

good to see you 'Los.

Heard about that fire on the freeway bro.

Right on. You are the man.

carry on with the smoke and mirrors............ Um.....ha.........ha

Edited July 28, 2012 by Adrian

[Jim Gamble 20]

Nope...not a member and I will leave it at that.

I will say that I do support the current board collectively in their efforts and look forward to hearing/seeing their plans. I do plan to rejoin and well as join the PWNA in the near future.

and yes the membership was either 260 or 360!!!

I know that the ***** was the place to be back then.

If you was to become President with the original transition team as BODS, I bet it could hit well past 500 members. It would be great...again !