What's the most important feature in a wood sealer?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This thread is not about one product, but about sealers in general. There are alot of ingredients that make up a sealer, and each has a specific function and importance. We thought it might be fun to discuss the what makes a good sealer. Not all sealers have the same ingredients, quantity of ingredients, or grade of ingredients.

We'll post a short list of general commonly known ingredients (not being too specific here) for discussion. We should all know how these work and why they are important.

Beth & Rod

[James 624]

Being able to replace or add moisture to wood .

[seymore 90]

Ditto what Jim said and having enough pigment in the stain for it to hold up atleast 2 yrs "oil base semi trans"

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Don't forget to vote ....please... ;)

[Henry B. 4]

Quality, price, ease of use and ease of purchase.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Henry, we are talking about a theoretical sealer. What's the most important ingredient and why. Not talking about anything that has to do with the manufacturer or distribution or our own need for ease of use. We're talking about raw materials in the product here.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I agree that the oils are extremely important for moisturizing and the pigment for the UV protection. But if we are talking about all things being equal and the "ideal" sealer here, mildewcide (biocide) has my vote. I have seen too many cases where the oil and pigment were fine, but the mildewcide was poor or failed and the result is that the deck turns black on you prematurely as it is overrun with mildew.

Depending onthe oils present, the mildew may feed on the oils, which can cause a widespread groth. To help the sealer remain intact for a longer period of time, I feel it is important to have a solid system in the product to inhibit the growth or regrowth of biological agents like mold, mildwe or algae. I have seen two different products, applied in the same season, in the same month, under the same conditions and less than a year later one is free of growth and the other has regrowth issues.

To me, if all else in the product is working, the oils are good, plenty of pigment, etc., then the mildewcide has just become the most important factor in the equation. The homeowner will blame you if a regrowth occurs prematurely.

Food for thought. I vote Mildewcide (biocides, antifungals).

Beth :groovy3: :cool:

[Henry B. 4]

Okay so you want to know what I believe the most important ingredient in a sealer is. I know what I would like the sealers I use to do but since I'm not a chemist and I don't make sealers it would be a bit difficult to list what ingredients make the best sealer. But, I'll give it a shot by listing some of the ingredients and properties of sealers I've used.

semi transparent non linseed oil based sealer (paraffinic oil usually)

Non film forming

Penetrates deeply into wood.

Containing over 75% solids

preservative based sealer that exceeds ASTM-D3274 testing for the control of mold growth.

Prevents mildew growth for 2 years.

Contains Zinc as a mildew preventative. (zinc borate I think)

Ease of application, (spray able) won't show lap marks, runs or drips.

Can be used on all types of wood not just pressure treated, and cedar. (some brands won't work on some types of exotic hardwoods.)

Prevents UV damage for at least 2 years.

Does not have to be stripped before it can be reapplied for maintenance coats.

150 square foot minimum coverage per gallon. Unfortunately you get less square footage on the higher penetrating agents but it's worth it in my opinion.

Product and finish won't be affected if it rains a couple hours later.

High flash point (I smoke..LOL)

Very low odor (some products really stink)

Comes in a variety of colors and container sizes.

Easy cleanup

fast drying time

History, I want to know how long the product has been on the market and it's results in different climates.

I want it to have been in use for at least 5 years.

Can be applied in temps as low as 45 degrees.

[seymore 90]

I agree about mildewcide also and is very important.The product i use actually gets extra mildewcide added in it due to the tropical climate here in Houston.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We could debate oils themselves. That might be fun too. Personally, I feel the longer the oil the better. I like different oils for different things, but my favorite is a combination blend of oils. We like greater than 80% solids.

You are right, the majority here are not chemists (I did speak to someone the other day with that background so some are), but shouldn't we know what is in these products, and be aware of the effects and how these things work? We are the professionals. In my opinion we need to be able to explain how various things work and why they are important.

Beth

[James 624]

Mildew or mold has no affect on the wood but it will tell you if you have moisture issue's. Mildew will affect your finish because it's a food source. Anything with oil in it attracts more mildew some more than others. Weather and were we live (climate ) are a concern when choosing a sealer.

For Pressure Treated wood penitrating non- drying oils are best. Henry,

once you do the first treatment if done correctly. You never have to apply more 60 to 70% of the first application( 3 to 4 years later).

Some of these subjects I can comment on indepth. But I can not concentrate or focus. I have had more surgery and more to come before xmas. This has been a nightmare year for me and my family.

[seymore 90]

Hey Jim

Sorry to hear it's been rough year for your family!

Hope it's not to serious and you are feeling better soon!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jim,

Whatever input you are able to share is very much appreciated. You have been and will continue to be in our prayers.

Beth

[Henry B. 4]

We could debate oils themselves. That might be fun too. Personally, I feel the longer the oil the better. I like different oils for different things, but my favorite is a combination blend of oils. We like greater than 80% solids.

You are right, the majority here are not chemists (I did speak to someone the other day with that background so some are), but shouldn't we know what is in these products, and be aware of the effects and how these things work? We are the professionals. In my opinion we need to be able to explain how various things work and why they are important.

Beth

I'm feeling pretty lousy right now so honestly talking about oils doesn't sound all that fun..lol

I believe it's important to know the basics of the products I'm using in case cleints have questions about them.

honestly, my clients trust my judgement and use what I reccomend if they can afford it. I usually choose a sealer by reputation, ease of use and quality versus price.

As for what's in the product itself, it doesn't matter that much to me as long as it works well and meets my requirements and expectations. They could add ketchup to if if they wanted and if it met my requirements and expectations it wouldn't matter what they put in it.

I am by no means a walking dictionary when it comes to the makeup of the sealers I use. Many of the clients I talk to don't want a breakdown of the product and when I start rambling on about its contents their eyes kinda glaze over. Or worse, they think I'm talking down to them.

My clients hire me for the results I can give them, not for my expansive chemical knowledge of my products so as long as it works well, I just keep it simple.

I'm an expert on deck restoration and every other type of service my company performs and thats what they call me for, not for product knowledge. If they want to know more about the product than I can tell them, they call, email or browse the web for the manufacturer or distributer. That's only happened once and I got the job, even though I wish I had not, they turned out to be very difficult clients that constantly second guessed everything I did even though I followed the exact procedures on the can.

I've found out that there are some people that you just can't make happy no matter what you do and I avoid those types whenever possible.

[Henry B. 4]

Jim, I hope things get better for you and your family. From what I've seen and heard about you, your a hell of a guy and we all miss your input.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hope you feel better Henry. Being sick during the Holidays is the pits.

The reson I started this thread is that there are some wood geeks out there who are really into this type of conversation, and also because the dialog is helpful to those who are learning and are newer.

There is no solid answer to which ingredient is the most important, but there are good reasons why the components are there. These should be kept in mind when working on different species of wood, etc.

How about longer oils vs. shorter oils? Different types of resin systems? Solid stains vs. semi-transparents? What grit sandpaper to use in which type of scenario?

I love wood care. So to me, this is very interesting stuff.

Beth

[Henry B. 4]

If I can make it through the next couple of days I'll be fine. I've got a complex in Towson to do tomorrow and another complex in Gaithersburg. Once these are out of the way I'll take the rest of the week off and let my guys finish what they can of the work load. Temps are starting to drop so it's going to make gutter cleaning more difficult but I've got to get these people taken care of regardless of how I feel.

My call volume is starting to drop down to a more manageable level finally. We got about 60 calls over the weekend but it beats 100+ a day.

How cold is it in Ohio in March? I'm already looking forward to some warmer weather!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Towson? I thought you didn't travel? (just kidding)

Seriously, feel better. And I thought you had plans to go to Florida? If you do bring the warmth back to Maryland. Ohio will be colder than it is here in March I'll bet.

[seymore 90]

It was hard to choose one choice in the poll cause the combinations of the oils,mildewcide,pigment are all important.

I know what you mean Henry some customers will question everything little thing about your work.Mostly it's the new customers not knowing anything about your company and the product you use.

Do you give your customers choices of stains and use only those or use a stain of their choice?

I only work with only 1 stain so it helps not having to have product knowledge about every stain on the shelf.Since most stains aren't worth the time to apply them anyway.

So when i inform my customers of the test results of the Texas Forest Service on our stain.They are assured the stain is of the highest quality available.

[Henry B. 4]

Hey Shane, I only normally offer one brand of stain mainly because I don't want to deal with having so many brands with all their colors. I don't use store baught stains, I haven't found anything that I like that much.

Beth, your right, I don't travel for residential jobs. If I do they have to be a real good sized job or a rental property at the beach. I do a few of those and I also have a client in Atlantic city that I've done a few years. (rental property)

We do travel for commercial work though and if it's big enough I'll rent a hotel room for a few days and stay in the area until its completed. The gutter cleaning job i'm doing in Towson will take one day and its for a bit over three thousand.

Another plus is there's a company in that area that's been wanting to see how we do gutter cleaning so they can add it to their list of services so they will be meeting me out there to watch.

it's 630am now, and time for me to roll.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Shane,

You're right it is hard to choose. And they are all important. To me, I think it is important to be able to understand them and speak about them if needed.

Beth

[seymore 90]

Is there a sealant oil better than parafinic for Cedar and PT wood?

Are some oils better in pennetrating than others?

I have always known parrafinic oil being the best for Cedar and PT wood per the Texas Forest Service.

I also know here in the south where linseed ,veggie oil is a no no cause of all the humidity.