Plumbing questions.

[PLD 14]

I've read all the threads about plumbing, and I still have a few questions about the best way to proceed. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. That said here are my particulars:

I just added a 275gal tote tank to my trailer. I do primarily residential, and have never needed it before. I wouldn't have bought it at all, but I have a big apt complex coming up and I'll need it for about 1000ft of vinyl fencing. I may not need it again, but here's to hoping for more big jobs!

My fill line is 1.5" PVC with an air gap. I plan to fill off a hydrant (w/ meter & permit) but I made a 1.5 ->GHT adapter so I can attach a hose and fill that way also.

My draw line is a 5/8 hose plumbed directly from the tank into the pump inlet. The pump side has a quick connects so I can remove it and hook the supply directly into the pump.

My trailer is single axle 3000#. I am thinking that I want to load that tank as little as possible to lengthen trailer life.

I do not forsee any need for upstreaming in the near future.

Now for the questions:

- Should I "T" the supply into the feed line between the tank and pump, or "T" into the 1.5" fill tube.

- Should I take the unloader output into the fill tube or into a seperate port into the tank? Why?

- If the supply is presenting 8gpm, and I'm using only 4gpm, my tank will fill up rapidly. I don't want to waste that much water or load the trailer up unnecessarily. Suggestions? I'm thinking a check valve between the supply and the tank. Should I also place a ball valve in parallel so I can backfill the tank if I need to?

- Many check valves are spring loaded and have a minimum opening pressure. Will the combination of pump suction and tank static pressure overcome this? Is there a specific check valve that I need?

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I've read all the threads about plumbing, and I still have a few questions about the best way to proceed. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. That said here are my particulars:

I just added a 275gal tote tank to my trailer. I do primarily residential, and have never needed it before. I wouldn't have bought it at all, but I have a big apt complex coming up and I'll need it for about 1000ft of vinyl fencing. I may not need it again, but here's to hoping for more big jobs!

My fill line is 1.5" PVC with an air gap. I plan to fill off a hydrant (w/ meter & permit) but I made a 1.5 ->GHT adapter so I can attach a hose and fill that way also.

Simple, and should do just fine.

My draw line is a 5/8 hose plumbed directly from the tank into the pump inlet. The pump side has a quick connects so I can remove it and hook the supply directly into the pump.

What kind of machine do you have, direct drive or belt drive? Either way, I would make that 5/8" into a 3/4" and as short as possible. Do not forget an inline filter. Is the tank level with the machine or ?

My trailer is single axle 3000#. I am thinking that I want to load that tank as little as possible to lengthen trailer life.

Good idea.

Now for the questions:

- Should I "T" the supply into the feed line between the tank and pump, or "T" into the 1.5" fill tube.

The supply would go into the 1.5" and then to the tank. The tank then goes to the machine.

Should I take the unloader output into the fill tube or into a seperate port into the tank? Why?

When you say the fill tube, you mean the 1.5". You can do that, as long as it is flowing back into the tank. the whole purpose is to make the machine suck cool tank water rather than going in a very short loop and getting hot fast.

If the supply is presenting 8gpm, and I'm using only 4gpm, my tank will fill up rapidly. I don't want to waste that much water or load the trailer up unnecessarily. Suggestions?

Install an adjustable float valve.

I'm thinking a check valve between the supply and the tank. Should I also place a ball valve in parallel so I can backfill the tank if I need to.

.

- Many check valves are spring loaded and have a minimum opening pressure. Will the combination of pump suction and tank static pressure overcome this? Is there a specific check valve that I need?

What is the check valve for? When you say back fill the tank, I am assuming you mean wash from the supply and fill the tank at the same time.

My machine runs off the tank at all times. I have ball valves on each tank so I can fully open the supply line and meter at the tanks as neccesary. I almost always carry a full tank of water.

[RyanH 14]

Philip,

I just installed my water shutoff the other day and it works beautifully on my 20 gallon tank....no problem why it won't work on your big tote.

http://www.kencove.com/ShopDetail.php?recordID=VHV

These guys had it to me within a few days. I paid somewhere around $35 after shipping and everything. You will have to pick up a few PVC fixtures to connect everything but it shouldn't be more than $2 or $3 for everything. It's a direct bouyant valve, has no mechanical parts to move and wear out, and responds very quickly. They claim it is good up to 150 psi, so it should work fine for your application. Call me if you'd like for any questions...I'm available after around 6 pm.

Ryan

7704907610

[Don Phelps 85]

Actually, over time there are parts that can/will wear out, but they also sell a repair kit for it too.

http://www.kencove.com/ShopDetail.php?recordID=VHVR

[flimmy 14]

I just looked at the site and see that Kencove is only 30 min.s from me :D I think I'll have to make a trip up to see them.

[PLD 14]

What kind of machine do you have, direct drive or belt drive? Either way, I would make that 5/8" into a 3/4" and as short as possible. Do not forget an inline filter. Is the tank level with the machine or ?

13hp 3500/4 cold machine w/ belt drive. The tank output is about 6" below pump input.

The supply would go into the 1.5" and then to the tank. The tank then goes to the machine.

When you say the fill tube, you mean the 1.5". You can do that, as long as it is flowing back into the tank. the whole purpose is to make the machine suck cool tank water rather than going in a very short loop and getting hot fast.

Yes. I was just tring to think ahead about any problems others may have faced. For example: Piping the unloader output into 1.5" fill tube defeats the purpose of the air gap. Anyone had any issues obtaining local mobile tank permits because of an incorrectly piped unloader output?

Install an adjustable float valve.

I would very much like that, but Clayton Co requires all water pass through an air gap filler. Can't do that with a float valve. Ryan, have you run into this down here?

What is the check valve for? When you say back fill the tank, I am assuming you mean wash from the supply and fill the tank at the same time.

Yes. I was thinking that I would "T" the supply line into the line between the tank and the pump. The check valve would permit the pump to draw from the tank if supply volume fell below usage. The ball valve in parallel with the check valve would allow me to bypass the check and push excess supply into the tank. Like this:

My machine runs off the tank at all times. I have ball valves on each tank so I can fully open the supply line and meter at the tanks as neccesary.

Good thought. Choke the supply to match usage.

I almost always carry a full tank of water.

Gotta get a new trailer for that....

[RyanH 14]

I would very much like that, but Clayton Co requires all water pass through an air gap filler. Can't do that with a float valve. Ryan, have you run into this down here?

Not exactly sure what an "air gap filler" is. I've never heard that term. And I don't know why Clayton County would require any special setup on this stuff...my experience with CC government is that they wouldn't have a clue what they were looking at anyway. Most of my work is in Henry.

I'll send pics of how mine is setup. It ain't pretty, but it works.

[PLD 14]

Not exactly sure what an "air gap filler" is. I've never heard that term. And I don't know why Clayton County would require any special setup on this stuff...my experience with CC government is that they wouldn't have a clue what they were looking at anyway. Most of my work is in Henry.

I'll send pics of how mine is setup. It ain't pretty, but it works.

They don't care unless you want to draw from a fire hydrant. If you do, you need a portable meter and an certification sticker on your tank.

An "air gap" means that the water must fall through the air (unpiped) for at least 2x the pipe diameter before entering the tank. It makes absolutely sure that nothing from your system can ever be drawn back into the supply line.

[squirtgun 122]

I really don't see the need for an air gap but if you really think you'll have the need to pull from a hydrant why not plumb the tank both ways.The air gap fill is only a few pieces of PVC that will not be used most of the time,however,if you need it you have it.The air gap fill method is most commonly used by extermintors(because of pre mixing chemicals in the tank,not a common practice in PWing) this way they don't pull the premixed chems back in the feed line.Air gap will not work with a float valve by plumbing both ways you cover all the bases.

[PLD 14]

I really don't see the need for an air gap but if you really think you'll have the need to pull from a hydrant why not plumb the tank both ways.The air gap fill is only a few pieces of PVC that will not be used most of the time,however,if you need it you have it.The air gap fill method is most commonly used by extermintors(because of pre mixing chemicals in the tank,not a common practice in PWing) this way they don't pull the premixed chems back in the feed line.Air gap will not work with a float valve by plumbing both ways you cover all the bases.

Yea, now that I have my cert I can add plumbing as I like. I may do that, but there is a $2500 fine if you get caught filling w/o a gap. Based on what I have heard here, people tend to call the authorities when the see a contractor drawing from a hydrant.

I will need hydrant feed as I am doing an 175 unit apt/townhouse complex with seperate meters for each unit. Unit "9a" might get a little ticked off if they find out I washed 27 units on their nickel. And I don't feel like unhooking and re-hooking 175 times. So... I bid it to the mgmt company as we provide water. I estimate 25-30k gallons total. ~$100 worth of water. My thought was to try and anticipate objections/questions that the mgmt company might have.

As for the tank: I have never needed one before, but there is about 1000ft of entrance signage and fencing included with no water available.