What did I do wrong?

[Earl Johnson 14]

Cleaned a deck today with sodium hydroxide. It had alot of mildew. X-jeted it on and washed it off, then used oxalic acid. when the deck started to dry, it had alot of white placesall over it like chalky residue. I neutralized it 2 times and rinsed good and it still came back when it started to dry. Could it be the SH. I did a deck a couple of days ago and it came out great. Did it the same way. Only difference is a different batch of SH. I have to go back tommorow and fix this fast!..... Help sombody!! Thanks Earl

[Paul B. 523]

Sounds like you used a very high grade/concentration of oxalic acid without the benefit of a rinsing agent/surfactant that would make rinsing easier. Without the blending your rinsing may be 10x to 20x more difficult unless hot water is used.

Too bad we didn't start the discussion here.

I know its less expensive to by it that way but look at how much more it cost you? Let me recommend that you purchase a commercially blended product like the neutralizer / brightener offered by Beth. It's a mix of oxalic and citric acids with the addition of surfactants, etc.

I'm glad the litmus paper helped you hone in on the problem.

I hope this was good education on purchasing pure vs. blended products as it is important to know your chemistry if you are going to provide professional cleaning service to your customers.

Best Wishes!

[Dale 16]

Paul,

Do you have any suggestions for additives for people who buy bulk acid...trying to save some profit I bought a couple hundred pounds of oxalic and citric for a 50-50 blend, I know a lot of others do this to save $$ and haven't really heard any concerns over rinsing problems,but if one occurs its a time loser.

Could a simple surfacant like dish soap or clear rinse Cascade work as a surfacant/ rinsing agent?,or would there be a problem with ph.?

I'd like to hear some feedback from people who have been useing home blend neutralizers...any problems?..additives?..squirt of cascade..squirt of dawn?? np9??..I just instinctively wouldn't think dawn and acid would be a good idea..never tried though.

Any shared info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dale

[Earl Johnson 14]

Belive me.......LESSON WELL LEARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That won't happen again!!!!!!

I have already ordered brightner from Beth!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to do the job right, and will settle for nothing less!!!!!!!!

Thanks again for all the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Earl

[Paul B. 523]

Earl,

I can appreciate it! Believe me, I've learned a lot in the past. ;)

Mostly I try to learn from other's mistakes - less painful for me that way.

As for dawn, I would want to say that it may or may not help since it's more of a surfactant to help hold your chemical in place to allow it to work better, and may actually hinder the rinsing process. I don't know the exact chemical contents so I won't guess on that. The pH could be an issue, but most likely not in a smaller amount. I would say a rinse aid or rinse additive would be a much better choice for this application - Clear Rinse Cascade could be a good choice. Then again you may have to experiment a bit.

I haven't tried mixing a neutralizer because for me it's really only pennies per sq. ft. to purchase commercial mixed products and I don't have a whole lot of time to experiment and test, re-test, etc. And if you do run into an issue like you have, it can blow all the savings and more. I personally leave the chemistry stuff to the specialists. But each must do their own thing.

Beth, or some of the others may have a comment on a rinsing aid for you.

Take Care!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Cascade is great to add to a house washing mix when you want the windows to turn out right, especially if using hot water. Works like it does in the dishwasher. :) Windows dry fast and spotless. But that's on glass...

For wood, I know there are surfactants that are surfactants and so forth along with the acids to create the brightening blend, but I can't say what in a powder form you should use to create that.

:( ...sorry... :(

I wouldn't add dish soap though, simply because it could actually add to your rinse time I would suspect. Normally I would tell folks to rinse about three times (rinse, rinse, rinse...in other words soak it well) in order to get all the acid out of the wood.

I hope this helps.

Beth

:cool:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rod here,

A method I use when neutralizing a deck after using HD-80 is:

once I have finished rinsing the deck and side of the house, I will make sure to wet all surfaces with a soap nozzle and then mix up the Citralic (which has a surfectant package built in) to the strength I need for that particular job and then apply it to the wet wood. This keeps the product mostly on the surface and keeps it from getting to deep into the wood fibers. Once the brightening is complete (noticeable by the color change in the wood) I then rinse all surfaces with a soap nozzle from the top down and keep rinsing till there are no more bubbles appearing on the surface as I am rinsing. I also include rinsing the underside of decks that are raised so that there will not be any unsightly residue left to become activated again during the next rain and drip onto unsuspecting homeowners ho may need to go out there for whatever reason. (just thinking ahead...liability as we all know).

:D Hope this helps~:D

Rod~

ps. Adding dish soap can alter the pH of straight Oxalic Acid taking it into the alkaline side and rendering it ineffective...depends on the soap. My thought is...buy it from a manufacturer who has done the R&D and has an effective formula.

[Dale 16]

Beth & Rod,

Thanks for the response..My concern with adding the Dawn was the same as yours, lowering the ph. and lessening the effectiveness of the brightening. I know alot of folks buy chems in bulk, and I do for simple cleaners and brighteners...wouldn't think of it for strippers or cleaners for roofs, gutters, etc.

I can't recall anyone having the residue problem to the extent that Earl had...maybe you hit on it Rod..when the wood is wet from cleaning or brightening, its not going to absorb too deeply, but if its dry, well that might be another story. I try to mix my brightener in hot water if possible...the night before if I have to, and always brighten right after cleaning/stripping and haven't had a problem....how about some feedback from others who use their own acid mixes, I know you're out there...any problems???..know of a surfacant?? mix ratios..50/50...70/30? etc, do you find that one rinses better than the other?? is there ANY difference? Just trying to learn.

Thanks,

Dale