Dillema(s) of Bidding Large Jobs.

[Paul B. 523]

I just bid on a shadow-box fence for a 35 unit condo village.

Each unit averages about 40 linear ft. of fence (although most were different and had to measure all to arrive at that number). The fence is 6 feet tall.

My first dilemma: was after closely looking at the fence, I noticed that the boards were overlapping about 1 inch on each side (see first photo). This calculates to about 1.5 square feet per linear foot. On small jobs, I would normally overlook this but on large ones, simple details will cut deep into the profits quickly. Also if you take the board edges and the vertical supports into consideration, you add another 1/2 square foot per linear foot of fence. So now when I look at my square footage of 6 foot tall fence and add another 2 square feet to it, now it becomes 8 square foot of fence per linear foot.

At 1400 linear feet times 8 sq ft times 2 sides = 22,400 sq ft.

if I ignore the details (which my competition most likely will)

1400 linear feet times 6 sq ft times 2 sides = 16,800 sq ft.

As you can see the delta is 5,600 sq ft. and even at $0.35 per square foot,

it's worth about $1,960.

My other dilemma was materials: stain at 150 sq ft per gallon for the 5,600 sq ft

delta at $15 per gallon is a cost difference of $570 (38 gallons).

Same with stripper and brightener: at $0.04 per square foot it's a delta of $224. If I pick a stain that covers 200 sq ft vs. 150 sq ft, (at $15 per gallon) I can make up about $420. Better yet, if I find a stain that covers at 250 sq ft per gallon I can make up another 22 gallons of stain or $330. That's assuming my competition is not using a stain that gets 250 sq ft per gallon.

Finally, the overall price to the customer (for example) if I bid 22,400 square feet at $0.35 sq ft or $7,840. If my competition bids 16,800 at $0.40 per square foot or $6,720, he/she has out bid me by $1,120. Of course if the competition is a bottom feeder and has a $.10 per square foot difference, then the gap widens to over $1,900. Of course, this is what a property manager loves to see.

I'll tell you what I did and what I bid after the project is awarded.

In the mean time, I would be interested to hear how some of you "wood specialist" handle similar situations.

[Henry B. 4]

My Advice,

Bid it high and let it fly. Those kind of fences are a PITA to clean and seal.

If you really want the job, get the property manager to require every company bidding on the job to do a demo in different areas then compare the quality along with the price of the job....

That should get you the job.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Submit specs as to what you will do in detail. See if you can make sure that you are on the same page as the competition in method as well as price.

By the way, great seeing you here Paul!

Beth

[PressurePros 248]

Paul, yes big jobs do present their own set of dilemmas. I agree with Henry, shadow box fences are a nightmare. That little overlap means you have to get the sprayer in there from different angles and back-brushing is tedious at best. I would have went full bore with my estimate, but you are asking how would I win the job. I would have sat down with the PM and talked. We would discuss how many square feet I came up with. I would feel him out to see what type of job he was looking for in terms of material quality. I think the only thing you can do is level the playing field and then stand by your price.

[Paul B. 523]

I TRY to bid every job at a (reasonable) PROFIT (albeit sometimes the margin gets a bit thin regardless of how hard I try). I bid this job at a higher square footage than the competition and that is where the job was lost. Most of my competitors also do not collect sales tax (reclassification is an option, but that's another story).

I submitted specs outlining procedures and product (stain) and attached a list of assumptions and exceptions as the basis to my estimate. Normally, the specs and assumptions help achieve an apples-to-apples comparison in bid evaluation and lean the scale in my favor. This job was awarded based on price. Although the property manager was impressed with the detail and quote "professional" estimate, she was not much interested in the jobs technical details and why that makes a difference in the end result.

I find that not all but most customers (at least initially) do not care if a contractor loses money on a job or not. It is more so with property managers, as in their minds contractors are a dime a dozen. Homeowners tend to understand somewhat more when you explain the benefits of a good contractor staying in business (you can go back to them again and again).

I didn't fret over losing this job because shadow-box fences are a PITA (as Henry said). I do prefer the larger projects like this, as I can keep 4 people busy for a week on one site.

Thanks Beth!

As you know, I'm here from time to time whether I post or not. Great place to learn! I travel more now (my social director requires me to - she says it's for my health) and my fingers are in a couple more pots, making it harder to devote the same amount of time as in past.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hey Mean Papa,

At some point share some of your travel stories so the rest of us can live vicariously through you. Some of the pics you have posted before were a blast...I remember some from cookingout, and some blurry ones of beer....

In any case, take care and don't be too much of a stranger. Even infrequent contributions here are highly valued!

Beth :sunshine: :island: