Oxalic acid mixed with Percarb or stripper

[jnoden 15]

Is it possible to mix these two to get an effective one step process? I know that one company sells it this way but Im not sure if it is as effective. I think that due to solubility problems you probably can not suspend enough of each product in the water to make it effective. I wonder if however if you can mix stripper at about half strength with an acid to get a good one step cleaner. I know that it is hazardous to just start mixing chems without knowing how they will react together and I would not reccomend experimenting with this. Just kicking around some thoughts and was wondering if anyone knows anything about this.

[PLD 14]

I wonder if however if you can mix stripper at about half strength with an acid to get a good one step cleaner.

No. Strippers are generally PH+ (alkaline) and oxalic is PH- (acid). As best, they will neutralize each other (Oxalic is often used to neutralize stripper before staining). At worst, you could create a very dangerous situation.

[jnoden 15]

I guess it is the alkaline properties that helps to strip and clean then. If acid were to be added It would neutralize and therefor would be totally ineffective. There is a company or person however who sells percarb with oxalic already in it. This is why i am asking the question. I dont want to look foolish. Just trying to understand things better.

[Celeste 341]

A percarbonate cleaner is not as alkaline as a stripper. When you say stripper, most would assume you are referring to a sodium hydroxide product. Some percarbonate cleaners are more neutral than others which, if mixed with an oxalic would make the product being applied on the acidic side.

What product are you referring to specifically if you don't mind saying so?

Celeste

[JFife 14]

You are correct, some products contain percarb and oxalic, I believe Wolman's Deck and Fence Brightener is one of them, but I may be mistaken. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish, but I don't find percarb cleaners to be all that effective, except for a few situations, and that sucks because it is the only product that tends to be harmless. The only use I can think of for what you are wanting to produce would be re-clean/re-coats.

[jnoden 15]

I use percarb for cleaning wood. I think I am using disodiumhydroxycarbonate but I think I read that Disodiumperoxydicarbonate is better for cleaning wood. Dont you use either of these Jon? I also heard that some contractors use only sodiumhydroxide and dilute strength for cleaning that way they do not need to caryy more chems than needed. I would rather use what works best and carry as many chems as needed but I wonder if sodiumhydroxide would be a good subsitute for the percarb. I understand that one is eviro safe and the other is not but if the contractor is careful then would this be as good of a chem? It would be cheaper.

[PLD 14]

I guess it is the alkaline properties that helps to strip and clean then. If acid were to be added It would neutralize and therefor would be totally ineffective. There is a company or person however who sells percarb with oxalic already in it. This is why i am asking the question. I dont want to look foolish. Just trying to understand things better.

I can't say for percarb, but for strippers it's no good.

[JFife 14]

From chemists I've spoken with, all of those chems are in the same family (Disod, percarb, perborate,etc) and I've not noticed any performing any better than another. I do use these, and have a lot in the past, but I'm just finding them to barely work any better than pure water pressure.

For anything other than a maintenance cleaning, I'd suggest just using sodiumhydroxide at a strength conducive to the job---something you'll figure out through experimentation. As far as safety, Naoh is nasty and should be respected, percarbs are fairly harmless. Environmentally safe.......well, that will be a matter of semantics. Both are biodegradable. If you are just beginning in this field, I'd suggest buying your products from a manufacterer (www.pressuretek.com) You won't be saving any $ unless you do a significant amount of work. Good luck,

[PressurePros 248]

I don't know of any products that have both oxalic and sodium percarbonate though many products do advertise sodium percarbonate as a wood brightener. Specifically, what commercial product has both?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You are better off buying two products and using two steps. We tried the Wolman product at one point, and decided we liked two better.

Beth

[jnoden 15]

thanks for the info Jon. I do buy the F18 from Bob and like it a lot. I know that just the right amount of psi and gpm can do wonders on a deck without chems. I could be fooled in to thinking that the percarb at least softens the impurities for easier removal with a pressure washer. It always seems that the floorboards could look better though and this is why I am going to try a few different chems. I use especs percarb and I think I read in a past post that it is a different type of percarb than what others are offering for 3x the cost and it is inferior. I guess I will just need to try both side by side.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Why re-invent the wheel?

Taking short cuts can lead to other problems.

I would suggest that anyone using these products do so according to labeled instructions and try not to create any hazardous situations...the chems alone are dangerous as they are without trying to simplify things for the sake of saving time.

In the past, I have noticed a trend among some that they always are looking to save time, cut corners, combine things, in order to increase the bottom line and while in some cases it may be feasable, mostly it only leads to other problems.

My suggestion is to evaluate your chems, technique, and methods of operation and streamline them as much as possible, then if that isnt making you enough money...raise your prices!

Costs are going up for everything due to gas prices and so on. I have seen our prices for sealers and other job supplies rise from 5-15% over the last year and its hard to keep competitive with so many new companies whose costs are lower at this stage. Being legitimate is expensive and guess who is footing the bill??? The best answer is the Customer. In business, it is not healthy to just absorb cost increases and expect to stay in the black.

:rant:

Ok, I'm done now.

Rod~