Why certify?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This post is in response to a post on another BBS, where a member voices his opinion and asks questions.

Whats up with all this certification BS. I goto a few of these different boards and I see everybody talking about certification. The PWNA is certifing wood restoraion????? Whats up with that?????? why would you need to be PWNA Certified. Who says that there way is the "industry standard". Im not trying to start anything (YET) Im just curious and would like some discussion about this topic. I have yet to see where the PWNA could actually benifit me and my company at all. Any and all comments either pro or con would be appreciated to expand my knowledge on why someone would get "CERTIFIED" in this industry on anything except HOOD CLEANING. I received an email tonight saying to go to this PWNA shcool and get certified or to get recertified (WHAT) recertified you mean to tell me that it doesnt last very long if I do get certified (WHY). What does the PWNA think will change in however long the certification is good for so that you might have to get recertified in wood restoration. Someone please explain this to me because right now Im thinking that this must be a joke or something.

PWNA has been offering a Wood certification program since 1999, when it was developed with assistance from both Wolman and Sunbrite, in an effort to offer a certification that doesn't have a lable from a manufacturer on it, but rather the backing of a National organization. It's not new. For those who wished to have a credential that would allow them to present their company with the kind of National certification often found in other industries, this became an important step.

The advantages that are easiest to spot are:

* Quicker launch for new companies

* Sales advantages over competition

* Potential higher dollar per job

The PWNA is currently working on additional certification programs in various areas, as well as higher level certification in existing areas. These programs take time to develop.

The PWNA isn't for everyone. But for those who are willing to give it a chance, well, you might just find that it's a valuable tool just like a high school diploma, college degree, or other membership or accreditation.

Beth & Rod

[ParadiseProWash 14]

For those interested I was the one who originally posted that and I was a bit confused about why the recertification after myself and Everett got on the same page we had a pretty good discussion and he cleared alot of things up for me. I will do some copy and paste so that everyone can see what was said. I will not post what others posted just myself and Everett.

How many times does this thread have to be replayed? If someone didn't want to start anything then you wouldn't post at all. Some folks seem to like to ride both sides of the fence. Morgan Paradise, you are a member of the PWNA BBS and it seems to me that your name has come up in our meetings as well as helping you out and how to handle that. Whether folks donated or not it was posted, discussed, and was an avenue of communication for you. Why now do something like this? If you wanted to question the PWNA why not do it on that site? It is a free country, you can speak your mind there also. Your thoughts and ideas would be welcome, both positve and negative. If a convertible car were for everyone then we would all have one. It's not though so others have different cars. Isn't it the same with organizations and associations? There isn't one in particular that is for everyone.

Isn't education in any form positive and beneficial? There are other certifications out there that are done over the internet or by sending in for testing. This course is much more detailed than that and is certainly a postive step in raising the standards of the industry, as are all of the certifications offered. Some of the comments have merit, don't get me wrong. Currently, the PWNA is working on advanced certification courses for all of the current classes, to address the issue of what is offered down the road. Recertification is to discuss any changes in the industry related to government regs., procedures, equipment , and etc. The Pest Control industry does recertification classes, is that also absurd?

To address the PWNA Wood Cert. in particular it was done in conjunction with the folks at WOLMAN. No one is stopping anyone from implementing their own certification and/or classes. Design your own and have it recognized and move forward. Steve R. has his class and from what I read and hear is done very well and is also productive and positive. There are Log Cabin Companies that give classes and certifications also. My point being why find something wrong with education? I further don't see anything wrong with an association(or anyone) else making money off of a program like this. It enables the association to continue to grow. Who would do it for free?

From a sales point of view I use any of my certifications and qualifications to get an upperhand on my competition. I give out 6 different ones depending on the job and I'm sure it works. nothing wrong with this either.

If one wants to find fault with someone or something they usually don't have to look very far, this is certainly one of those cases. I am not looking to argue with anyone only to offer another side of the issue raised. As far as education goes if I were to sit down and talk with any of you I would certainly be open to learning something, and I'm sure I would, and vice versa.

FYI

Contractors 92%

Vendors 8%

IWCA/PWNA are combining efforts to make it a better show for the attendees, plain and simple.

I am glad to have the opportunity and the forum to be able to express these views. Thank you.

__________________

Everett Abrams

ABRAMS PLUS INC./

DECK RESTORATION PLUS

1-866-440-DECK

[ParadiseProWash 14]

Whoa slow down Everett I said I didnt want to start anything and I meant it thats why I asked for PRO's and Con's. I find nothing wrong with being certified however I raise the question to you as to recertification Why? Can the regulations that you bring up not be sent out to your certified people without them having to go thru being certified again. For example Wolmans sends out a newsletter twice a yr to update people that have been certified about changes. My question is why after being certified would I want to go to the expense of getting a plane ticket round trip from Memphis to D.C. and get a hotel room plus rent a car and food just to find out something that could be sent in the form of a newsletter. I have in no way slammed the PWNA nor do I wish too, I was just asking Why? I think that is a legit question dont you. Now another question who is teaching this class and what makes them an authority on this subject? What products are going to be taught and what methods are going to be taught. I dont see any problem with asking these questions and I dont see any problem with you answering them. I admit that after rereading my post you from that side of the fence could have gotton the wrong idea but you have to remember im from the south and from the country so we dont always talk like other people so again I will say I am not trying to start anything I would just like my questions answered and if you want me to take my questions to the PWNA message board I will but Everett would I not be getting only one side of the fence from that board I asked for Pros and Cons. If you guys would ever get it were we could get group health insurance I would join in a second. I just dont have the money or the time to have to fly up north or out west everytime the PWNA has something.

__________________

Morgan T. Paradise

Eads, TN 38028

901-465-9144

I love this Business

Website www.contractor.com/paradiseprowash

morganparadise@msn.com

[ParadiseProWash 14]

quote:

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Morgan Paradise, you are a member of the PWNA BBS and it seems to me that your name has come up in our meetings as well as helping you out and how to handle that. Whether folks donated or not it was posted, discussed, and was an avenue of communication for you. Why now do something like this? If you wanted to question the PWNA why not do it on that site? It is a free country, you can speak your mind there also.

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Now to address this issue. Everette I was contacted about being helped by some people and I will say I appreciate what they did but I never asked for help and they know that. As far as using the PWNA board for an avenue of communication I thank them for that also however had I know you would through that in my face the first time I didnt agree with you or ask a few questions I would have never joined that board. I really dont see what your point of even bring that up was except to jab a little. Im much bigger than that so this is all I will say about that.

__________________

Morgan T. Paradise

Eads, TN 38028

901-465-9144

I love this Business

Website www.contractor.com/paradiseprowash

morganparadise@msn.com

[ParadiseProWash 14]

Fair Enough

Morgan,

I understand better now exactly where you are coming from. You are 100% correct in wanting to know as much about the class and how it would benefit you or anyone else. I certainly don't mean to ruffle any feathers, anyone who knows me knows that I am very unselfish in this department.

As to who is teaching the class, that would be me. I was asked by the PWNA Board and the guys who were running the class if I would consider teaching the class. I believe there were three others who were considered. We had to submit our qualifications and whatever other materials we had and then they chose the person. If anyone would like to know more about me just e-mail me or call me and I'll fill you in. I am not going to post all that on the BBS'. eabrams@deckrestorationplus.com or 1-866-440-3325.

The recertification is really simple and you don't need to attend a seminar to keep up the cert. there are other ways. I am glad you mentioned Health Insurance. New laws have just been passed and I personally am working with the Better Business Bureau on getting Association Benefits. This would be HUGE. I have not posted this anywhere yet and wasn't planning on it until it happens. The laws now allow for association benefits in Virginia (PWNA's Headquarter's). We have been turned down by Blue Cross/ Blue Shield and are currently working on other carriers. It is something that IS being worked on now.

The same thing goes for all the other certifications though not just wood. They are there to be a benefit to the members and non-members if someone feels that it fits their needs. I agree with you on costs and believe that is where the PWNA has failed. They should be geographic. Since taking over the instructing of the course I went to Vegas, then in New Jersey, now in Maryland. If any one group has an interest in any other part of the country, we will try to make that work. The advanced course is also going to be hands on, not just books, slides, power point presentaion , or whatever.

Morgan, I don't care where you are from the South Pole, the South of France, or just the SOUTH, you and any other contractor are alwys welcome to pick up the phone and call or stop in at my place when they are in the area. I love to talk shop and share ideas. I appreciate you and others bringing up certain topics, I just really don't like the bashing that happens on the BBS' at times whether it is an individual, group, PWNA, or whoever. It discourages me that this occurs. I like different opinions and discussions, heck that's what makes the world go around. Discussions though, not attacks. I apologize if I jumped the gun a bit. Maybe it's just us guys in the NORTH!

__________________

Everett Abrams

ABRAMS PLUS INC./

DECK RESTORATION PLUS

1-866-440-DECK

[ParadiseProWash 14]

quote:

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The advanced course is also going to be hands on, not just books, slides, power point presentaion , or whatever.

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Does this mean that there will be no hands on during this class. In other words you will not be actually restoring anything just book and class work??????

Thanks Everett for taking a deep breath I understand a little better now but more details please. What if any products and techniques are being talked about???? You know what they say curiousity killed the cat so to speak.

__________________

Morgan T. Paradise

Eads, TN 38028

901-465-9144

I love this Business

Website www.contractor.com/paradiseprowash

morganparadise@msn.com

[ParadiseProWash 14]

Morgan,

There are a lot of materials covered, handouts, samples, examples, power point presentation, some tools of the trade.

We cover marketing, chemicals, equipment needs, methods, types of woods, other avenues of income, estimating, types of stains and sealers, and much more. If someone has been doing this for a long time and has really kept up with the times, then no this may not be the class for them. I have had people in the class that were over 10 years and were still hearing things for the first time. There are other items like cornblasting, repairs, other wood restoration and such discussed. The class is a day and a half with and a half a day for review and the test which is 150 questions.

At this time there are only demos at the yearly seminar. It is another issue that is trying to be resolved about actually going to a members scheduled job. Waivers and insurance are the issues but, will be resolved in the future. I agree there can always be room for improvement and there are folks putting in a lot of time to make these things happen. Bottom line is I am a contractor as well and have had the same thoughts and feelings as others over the years. I have simply chosen at this time to become more active in order to try and make a difference, time will tell if I am successful and if changes are in store.

My personal goal is to actually come full circle and have one truck and my pressure washer and just do decks. By myself, no employees, no nothing. Spend my winters vacationing in the Keys or the Dominican.

__________________

Everett Abrams

ABRAMS PLUS INC./

DECK RESTORATION PLUS

1-866-440-DECK

[ParadiseProWash 14]

Everett I really appreciate your comments and your time. After we stepped back and got on the same page things have been answered that I had pondering in my mind I really appreciate that.

__________________

Morgan T. Paradise

Eads, TN 38028

901-465-9144

I love this Business

Website www.contractor.com/paradiseprowash

morganparadise@msn.com