Government, what a MESS

[Able Hands 14]

For the beginning of this saga, please reference Thread -->>

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5725

Matt

[Able Hands 14]

By “fair share” I mean just that.

My belief is that we should pay what our representatives in the government lay out in the incomprehensible tax law. I’m not saying that I blindly write a check at the end of the year for taxes. I look for every advantage I can find to reduce my portion of the burden. That’s why the tax law allows for deductions/write off’s. If we disagree with what they say our share is, then we have to vote them out. By the way you stated your thoughts in the other post I perceive that you are a conscientious voter, and sincerely take these things into account when casting your ballot.

Unfortunately, the way our system of government is set up it lends itself to corruption and self-serving greed, that self-serving greed is why our taxes areas high as they are. There is a great deal of blame to pass around. I don’t think this is a Democrat/Republican argument, as both sides of that aisle have contributed to the problem. The politicians are merely seeking to survive in their chosen profession. For some reason, that means spending ridiculous sums of money on ridiculous things. We’ve all heard stories of government grants for studying frog farts and the like. The only reason I can think of for these ridiculous studies is that they fund someone in the politician’s constituency, making them a hero at home.

When it comes to natural disasters… There will always be a group of schmucks that try to make a living, or live off the government in times of tragedy. I can’t count the number of people who have told me that I should go to Louisiana, “You could come home rich.” I have no interest in uprooting and moving down there to make money from the people’s misfortune.

If you want to talk about a massive government screw up look into the mobile home deal they put together. WE, the tax payers are paying for something like 200,000 trailers for the people of Louisiana to live in, in the aftermath of the hurricanes. The problem, is that it will take two to three years to build that many trailers. The contract has been signed. OOPS!!! Someone didn’t think that one through.

When I wrote my original post above, I had just finished an argument with a friend (non-US citizen) that droned on for an hour about how horrible the system was. When I asked how long she had been in the US (20+ years), and if she had exercised her ability to become a US citizen thereby allowing her to vote, she said no. I abruptly told her to shut up. If we are unwilling to put forth the effort to make the system better then we can’t ***** when the system fails.

As I said in a follow-up post, I think perhaps I should have kept my thoughts to myself.

Matt

Think I'll step off the soap box for now.:soapbox: Any one else wnat a turn?

[Jeff 232]

I vote and have most of my life, Ive missed one or 2

There is a big problem with our Gov and I really fear its never going to change. I a democrat and I really dont like Bush Jr. but that doesnt matter, becuase I dont see anyone except a few that I like for 2008 and Im not really thrilled with them.

We might as well live in the days of monarchies, Kings & Queens. The executive branch, congress, senate, even many governors & mayors are millionaires. What do they have incommon with us. They spend millions 30 -100 million to get in an office that pays 100-400K a year.

How can a bunch of millionares relat to us. I wish they would say that each presidential election has so much money, each candidate has say 5 - 15 million and a certain amount of free air time on radio & TV, Let the top 6-10 candidates debate SEVERAL times throughout the election. Everybody on the same playing feild without the ridiculous amounts of money to run a national campaign. Its not going to happen.

We live in a great country I love it and would fight for it, but the system is corrupt and its entirerly corrupt and its run by KINGS

I dont know how or if it can change I will continue to vote and love my great country. But I'd love to see people that run for office truly care about us and not just getting re elected or special interest etc etc

Id like to see 2 or 3 candidates in a Dem, Rep, Ind.Presidential election that I wasnt just voting for the lesser of 2 evils. I'd like to see 3 candidates that I actually like & trust

Maybe some day I hope

We need to take back this country, because I truly worry for my children and the future

As for taxes I will use everything thats offered and I dont mind paying taxes, just stop the loop holes that big Corp are afforded just because they have pull in our Gov

OH I could go on & on but I wont. I hope 2008 brings a welcome surprise candidate:USA:

[RyanH 14]

First, I will state that I am totally against the concept of "From each according to their ability to each according to their need." The concept of "fair share" typically alludes to "you can afford to pay more, therefore you *should* pay more."

What a crock. My efforts to earn more are driven by my desires to have more. Why am I punished for that? Consider this. By having a higher income, I have more purchasing power in the marketplace. I can afford to eat out more, I can buy more gadgets, I can buy a new car more frequently than otherwise, etc. Basically, I have the financial power of providing more people with jobs to provide these goods. It usually turns out that those providing these goods (restaurant servers, factory workers, etc.) make a lower wage. It is usually this "class" that will attack the "rich." How ironic that the lower income class will attack the earned efforts of those who support them in the first place. Just try to have goods and services without someone with the integrity to provide them. When an airline goes under and thousands of people lose their jobs, you don't see the mechanics independently starting a new company, they run to another person who set it up. They run to the rich CEOs they so vehemently put down because deep down, they realize that the rich CEOs and executives and entrepreneurs are the engines that drive our world and they themselves are the gasoline that helps it to run. Try to haul a load of cargo with a bucket of gasoline and no engine. Try to pressurize a water stream without a motor. Without an engine, the only benefit of gasoline is to provide a little warmth. Everyone wants to ***** about the oil companies making profits, but try to look at barren soil and pull the oil out of the ground with desire alone. Try to convert the crude into useful fuel for our daily lives. It takes will and determination and effort to make that happen, and the man who posseses those traits should NOT be punished and browbeaten for his acheivements to make it happen. If it were not for the promise of profits, there would be no incentive for him to do this.

Why do we attack "rich" people? Why do we make them pay more in taxes? And not just more in the way of actual payments, I mean a higher tax percentage rate. Why should I have to pay 30% and the next guy pay 5% of his only because he tried less hard in life? Don't give me the crap about him being "unfortunate" or not as "lucky."

I didn't have a silver spoon growing up. We didn't have a television until I was 5 and then it was an 8" black and white. I was 5 or 6 before my meals grew beyond instant mashed potatoes and canned green beans that could be bought at the rate of $0.10 per can. No meat for me....it was liver pudding and frozen fish sticks. My Christmas gifts consisted of Golden Books and dollar store cars. The only vacation I knew of was a birthday at Showbiz Pizza (now Chucky Cheese). And I'm in my mid-20's. Essentially, we were poor. Mom was making $55 per week and paying for daycare and apartment rental. Father wasn't around. No welfare check in our mailbox. Later, she remarried to someone who wanted better for himself, had gone to college, and could afford to give us a house. He tought me the concept of individual responsibility. There was no talk about a government stepping in to save me from my bad decisions. As I grew older, I worked for what I had, paid my way through college, did various jobs along the way (including pressure washing, which originally drew me to this board). And now that I am working to have a better life for myself and my future family, some schmuck wants to come along and tell ME that others DESERVE my money more than I do. Pardon my french, but F*CK that! I've worked too damned hard in life to have some parasite come along and demean my efforts. And you guys here who have really grown your business and make $500k each year, how does it feel to be made out to be the bad guy in our country?

As an American, I enjoy the freedom to travel on the roads. I enjoy the freedom to speak my mind. I have the US Military protecting our interests. I can go out and find a job, I can work to get good grades and make it into school. My rights as an American are no different than any other legal American citizen in this country (well, OK, gays can't take the tax advantage of "marriage," but that's about the only exception I can think of), yet for some mysterious reason, I'm expected to pay more for my benefits of being an American.

Let me tell you what's wrong with this current tax scenario in our country. People inherently like for things to be easier. For lazy people or people who don't want to better themselves in life, it is easier to have someone else give them money each month. It is easier to have someone else pay for and plan their medical stuff. It's easier for someone else to pay for the government housing they live in, or to cover the cost of those WIC checks. Politicians realize this. They realize that if they can make things easier for people then they are more likely to get voted in. They also realize that these people generally have more time to vote than other people who are "bothered" with the nuiances of working. So they take from those who have and give to those who have not. They label the rich as "greedy" or "evil" in ways that set up a straw man so that every person who wants to take from this money pot can knock it down and not feel bad about doing it. Failure in this country is rewarded.

So now you know why I am not inclined to pay what the takers want to classify as "fair share." Those who make the laws and--to a greater extent--those who put them into office have more to gain from raping me financially than I do. Their are more people in this country (increasingly more) who would fight to take my earnings for their own use than there are people who will actually provide, and that's why the laws exist. If a hundred people vote to have me executed because I don't have blond hair or blue eyes, does that make it right? Nope. I would hope that the man who says that abiding the law absolutely would not allow a firing squad to put him down simply because it is the law.

Now, I shall step of my soapbox and get back to work. And jeff, I don't care what you claim. You are not a democrat, atleast not in the current text of what democrat's represent. Maybe a democrat of Jefferson's day (which is where I would place myself), but not current day. I can tell from your previous posts that you realize the benefit of work. Doesn't it bother you that the party to which you claim to belong is constantly acting to destroy your efforts and tarnish your name? Repubs aren't any better either, imho.

[PressurePros 249]

Great posts, and I'm certain many will agree with all the above. Interestingly though, someone posted in another thread that typing about deductions and such on this BBS is risky business. I try not be paranoid but government bashing as a business owner is equally risky. It's a shame one has to censor his or her thoughts in a public domain but it's prudent to err on the side of caution.

[RyanH 14]

In light of my previous post, I think I should make this distinction. I am not and do not consider myself to be "rich." I make much less than many others on this board. As a member of the "middle class" I would have to agree that many of the tax laws benefit me. I am still getting screwed, just not as much as others. My only gripe is that we should not toss around this idea of "fair" when in fact it is wholly unfair. And I would still vote to empower the thinkers and drivers (HINT: having a degree does not automatically make you a thinker or a driver, there are lots of stupid people with education walking around) of this nation and to make EVERYONE individually responsible.

[Jeff 232]

Like I said, I dont really mind paying taxes, we have to run this country and it seems like most other countries too. I'l pay my fair share. But we are now run buy Kings & Queens, I'd love to see a goverment "for the people of the people" again. Think of it, what does Tom Delay, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, **** Chenney, John Kerry, Rockerfeller, Trent Lott and most of the rest of them in Washington have incommon with us. They are rich and most have always been rich. They cant see outside of their bubble and not that they are all corrupt, but the system is corrupt in so many ways.

We (medicare) cant even negotiate with big drug companies. We are the biggest buyer of drugs and we cant negotiate on prices and our own goverment passed the law to let the drug companies do it, Thats corrupt

Big Biz should be able to make big profits thats why their in biz, But CEO's 20+ Years ago use to make about 20 times more than the highest paid employees in their company, now its as much as 400 times the amount and the the companies still goes bankrupt, collapse or lay off thousands but the CEO still gets paidzillion for running the company wrong.

I know theres a lot of different opinions on Gov & Biz, but you cant tell me there isnt something wrong with the system. Im not looking for perfect just better & more honest

God Bless America

JL