sodium hypochlorite & surfactants

[john@AEC 37]

G'day

I've been concerned, as many of you have, about how well surfactants mix with sodium hypochlorite, so, after putting my clever cap on, I searched for "surfactant" & "hypochlorite".

In amongst everything else where products from

* Dow Chemicals

* Mason Surfactants

and a few others.

Does anyone have experience using these specific surfactants?

Does anyone know of off the shelf products that contain this type of surfactant?

Thanks

John

[plainpainter 217]

I know alot about it - I use a non-ionic surfactant called NP-9 Tergitol {nonylphenol} that purposely is made to work with bleach. I use it along with TSP in the bleach for my housewashes. And only 0.6% makes it onto the home after downstreaming - and it knocks all mildew off like gangbusters! This is in stark contrast to the other guys here who insist on 12% bleach with 1%-2% making it onto the side of a home after downstreaming.

-Dan

[Keth 15]

Plainpainter. I see that Tergitol is about 19 bucks for 100ml. How much do you add per gallon of house wash? As a surfacant do you notice that the bleach/houseclean mix holds on or sheets better than not using it?

[plainpainter 217]

Keth - you can get tergitol much much cheaper than that at thechemistrystore.com. As with how it works, yes it makes the stuff hold much better on the sides of a house - but even on flat sections, it has this amazing ability to remove the need for brushing. If you use it with just bleach, ok - or just use bleach with TSP - again ok. But bleach with tsp and tergitol - man oh man.

-Dan

[Keth 15]

Thanks Plainpainter for the info. I will give it a try.

Do you ever find that the TSP leaves white residue on the windows even with thorough rinsing?

[plainpainter 217]

I have never found that tsp leaves a white residue - on the sides of boxes they commonly tell you to put 1 quart of bleach and 1 cup of tsp to 3 quarts of water. I think that's just plain crazy - I have always just put 1/4 of tsp to one gallon of water then added a quart of bleach for 5 quarts total. That's been my mainstay, and where I start from when I want to tackle something. By adding 1/16 cup of tergitol to that gallon, has allowed me to cut down the bleach to one pint. And so now I have a mixture that I can put a siphon directly into a 6% bleach bottle with my added ingredients through my downstreamer which is 10:1. I was pressure washing a house, and it even knocked off the failing poly coating on the guy's front threshold!

But back to your question - never noticed any residue on windows, I don't think the nonylphenol would allow it - and I haven't killed any vegetation, just rinse the vegetation before and after.

-Dan

[Keth 15]

Thanks Dan! Great info!

[john@AEC 37]

Thanks Dan for the tip on Tergitol, as rinsing, especially windows, is my biggest drama/time waister.

Does the TSP affect aluminium? as most homes out my way have aluminium window frames (some are powder coated, but many are plain).

Cheers

[Mike Sullivan 15]

I have never found that tsp leaves a white residue - on the sides of boxes they commonly tell you to put 1 quart of bleach and 1 cup of tsp to 3 quarts of water. I think that's just plain crazy - I have always just put 1/4 of tsp to one gallon of water then added a quart of bleach for 5 quarts total. That's been my mainstay, and where I start from when I want to tackle something. By adding 1/16 cup of tergitol to that gallon, has allowed me to cut down the bleach to one pint. And so now I have a mixture that I can put a siphon directly into a 6% bleach bottle with my added ingredients through my downstreamer which is 10:1. I was pressure washing a house, and it even knocked off the failing poly coating on the guy's front threshold!

But back to your question - never noticed any residue on windows, I don't think the nonylphenol would allow it - and I haven't killed any vegetation, just rinse the vegetation before and after.

-Dan

Hey Dan, you're knowledge of chemistry is impressive. When are you going to upgrade your equipment to match your chemicals? It's painful to read you are still using a PITA, POS 5Hp 2.5 gpm machine.

[Anthony G 14]

What is the percentage of nonylphenol in the Tergitol or is the latter just a trade name for the nonylphenol? Just curious as the surfactant manufacturer that I work for has several thousand gallons of it in totes and tanks.

Thanks,

Anthony

[Ervis Istre 1]

On 8/21/2006 at 7:22 AM, plainpainter said:

I have never found that tsp leaves a white residue - on the sides of boxes they commonly tell you to put 1 quart of bleach and 1 cup of tsp to 3 quarts of water. I think that's just plain crazy - I have always just put 1/4 of tsp to one gallon of water then added a quart of bleach for 5 quarts total. That's been my mainstay, and where I start from when I want to tackle something. By adding 1/16 cup of tergitol to that gallon, has allowed me to cut down the bleach to one pint. And so now I have a mixture that I can put a siphon directly into a 6% bleach bottle with my added ingredients through my downstreamer which is 10:1. I was pressure washing a house, and it even knocked off the failing poly coating on the guy's front threshold!

But back to your question - never noticed any residue on windows, I don't think the nonylphenol would allow it - and I haven't killed any vegetation, just rinse the vegetation before and after.

-Dan

Do you still use these chemicals

 

[stitch 1]

hey mate ...

hypochlorite +- 1 %

blended surfactants 7.125%

balance 100% water

any suggestions on what blended surfactants i should use?

apparently this mixture is good for mould on canvas ect

cheers kevin 

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

7 hours ago, stitch said:

hey mate ...

hypochlorite +- 1 %

blended surfactants 7.125%

balance 100% water

any suggestions on what blended surfactants i should use?

apparently this mixture is good for mould on canvas ect

cheers kevin 

We use citra-spray detergent from ACR Products. It is a great detergent with surfactants and emulsifiers to help clean.

Rod & Beth