Downstreaming EXPERTS ONLY....

[Guest rfitz]

Seems there is confusion out there when it comes to downstreaming,

people that have been in this biz for a while dont really know, what ratios,

mean or percentages, whichever, is it just me or does anyone else out there

understand the percentage of water to chems on downstreaming...???

I guess, I just do alot of testing, testing, and more testing, to get my chems,

ratios down to a science, but there are some folks out there that believe you can get more draw downstreaming, than upstreaming, someone please help me explain this to others on the board......

[ron p 500]

your pump is a positive displacement pump.

This mean's it will pump [use 5 gpm as a exsample] 5 gpm.

Now when you add the chem to the BEFORE THE PUMP[upstremin g] You are adding chem to the water and pumping 5 gpm.

At this point 5 gpm is comeing out of the tip.

You can upstream 100% chem if you wanted too. Just fill your tank with whatever you want to shoot.

The up-streamer work's under LOW PRESSURE and you have a 3/4 inc or 1/2 inc inlet from the garden hose to the pump to get a draw.

This amount of unrestricted flow will typically get a better draw rate then a DOWN-STREAMER.

Now here is the part that confuse's people.

When your pump is pushing 5 gpm and drawing in[downstreaming] chem [let's say 5 to 1] then in 1 min. Six gallon's per min is comeing out of the tip.

5 gpm from the pump and adding 1 gpm of downstream chem.

thus giveing 5 to 1.

Upstreaming your adding 1 gal chem to 4 gal of water and shooting 5 gpm from the tip.

So UPSTREAMING WILL PUT MORE CHEM ON THEN DOWNSTREAMING.

A lot of thing's can effect your downstreamer.

it has a very small orafice. The langth of high pressure line. Thickness of the chem[amount of solid's]. Distance of chem tank from the downstreamer[you can get friction loss in the chem line]

Up-streaming can cause problem's in your metal part's and has a lot of drawback's also.

Ideally, a sep. pump for chem's or a TRUE 2 step wash unit[duel line's] is the best way to go.

shur-flo

roller pump

ect.....

cost's more,more equipment to buy,fix,replace,ect....

more to drag around,need multiable chem tank's,ect....

best downstreamer ive seen-X-JET drawback, carrying chem to wand.

[vlad 14]

I have question about downstream injectors,read a lot about 20% downstreamers. so how I understand , with my PW(4gpm)20% downstreamer has to draw 1gal in 1min. (1gal chems+4gpm water , will bee 20%chems in mix).Ordered Adams 20% adjustable injector.Tested with 4gpm,3000psi machine,3 feet wand,black soap nozzle,75 feet high pressure hose,injector open allway.To draw 1gal from bucket thru injector I needed 2min. 10sec., that's makes 8gal water to 1gal chems or 11,1111%.So I dont understand or the send me wrong injector or its at all is impossible to draw 1gal chems in 1min and get 20% draw with downstream injectors.If its possible what brand and where I can

get them.

And i did tested my machine for gpm , I am geting 4gal per min.

Thanks for your help.

Vlad.

[ron p 500]

vlad do you know the size of the orfice in the downstreamer?

it might be 2.3 You want a 1.8

Where is the downstreamer at in the pressure line?

You want it right at the outlet of the pump.

They also have diffrent size soap tip's.

Try a larger one.

25% of one gal is a quart

so to get 1 gal of chem per min from a 4 gpm unit you would need a 25% draw. Not a 20% draw.

you should be at 1 1/2 min to draw in 1 gal.

you also might want to try a non-adj type injector from e-spec.

To tell you the truth ive never gotten a full 20% draw from a downstreamer.

I learned a lot from BIGBOY and he has downstream but no downstreamer injection. Just a simple T in the pressure line.

I have'nt tried that yet.

if you feel like messing around a bit. Try installing 2 downstreamers on that one high pressure line and see what happen's.

Also when they test downstreamer's to get the 20% ratio that they tell you about, it's with 50 ft of pressure line. The longer the line, the less the draw.

[Mike Williamson 198]

ron:

right...You're getting a 25% draw rate, and the final product is 20% chems.

[Mike Williamson 198]

rfitz:

why do you have such a hard time beleiving you can get more than a 10% draw with a downstreamer, but you don't question the 50% draw rate of the XJet? ....they both draw chems based on the same principle...

How many downstreamers have you tested? They're not all the same, and different downstreamers will perform differently with different machines.

8:1 draw rate is 12.5%, not 11.11%. The final product coming out of your wand is 11.11%. 1 is 12.5% of 8.

[Guest rfitz]

No that is not right, as I will explain the difference, with an Xjet, the chem

is coming out after the pump, water etc.. with upstream your chem is coming out before the pump, and the downstream is coming after the pump, after the water, etc.. Now is here why you will understand why I am right, say for example you fire up your unit, drop your downstream line in your bucket and off you go, and lets say for example purposes you have a 5 GPM machine,

in one minute you will probably drain 1/4 gallon of chems and that is if you have a good downstreamer, I have worked on this experiment with about 5 machines all having different GPM's, so what this means is this, after you droppped your line in the 5 gallon bucket, and pulled the trigger on your gun

assuming you have no longer than a 100-150 ft hose, after that it gets worse

anyway, after 4 minutes of continuos pulling of the trigger, you would have gone through 20 gallons of water and approx. 1 gallon of chems, hence my statement of 20 to 1 ratio, once again, 20 parts water 1 part chem, now if you can prove me wrong, which I honestly hope you could, because I love downstreaming, I will post my findings and accept what you say as truth, all you have to do, is tell me where to buy a adams downstreamer. I will buy one, install it where you have yours, and post my results, I am excited to test this out, and looking forward to posting my findings.... So after what I said when downstreaming you should be able to drain a 5 gallon bucket of chems in approx 20 minutes, give or take a minute or so, that is max for a downstreamer

[ron p 500]

Wait a min.

your never going to get a 25% draw with a IN-LINE DOWNSTREAMER without modifacation's.

Second IF OUR UP-STREAMER AND DOWNSTREAMER HAVE THE SAME DRAW RATE, THE UPSTREAMER PUT'S MORE CHEM ON[HIGHER RATIO] THEN A DOWNSTREAMER.

Please remember this.

A DOWNSTREAMER add's chem to the gpm of the unit-a 5 gpm will add 20% chem to the 5 gal, thus 6 gal's leaves the tip in one min.

A UP-STREAMER adds 1 gal chem to 4 gal of water and in one min 5 gal will leave the tip.

downstreamer get's 5 to 1

upstreamer 4 to 1

if you used a stop watch ONLY to test this it would look like the up-streaming and downstreaming were pulling chem at the same rate.

if you also measured the amount of water comeing out of the tip, you would see that downstreaming ADDED 1 GAL in the same amount of time. Where UP-STREAMING did not.

[Mike Williamson 198]

rfitz: The XJ and the downstreamer work using the same principle, regardless of where they are in the pressure line....They are both installed after the pump, thus they are both downstream injectors. The XJet is just fine-tuned to the point where it can get 2:1 on a 5gpm machine, has a fancy name, and costs more.

You can get an Adams downstreamer from Pressure Tek, Bob Williamson. www.pressuretek.com I don't have his number in front of me. I'm sure others carry the Adams, but I'm not aware of who. Order one and give it a shot, you'll be surprised.

[vlad 14]

Ron P: My downstreamer is 2.1mm orifice.I will order 1.8mm to tray . Thaks.

Onenes:I was mistaking draw rate with end mix %.thanks for explaining.Price at pressuretek for downstreamers is great,I paid 29$ for my.

If i will bee using 18 feet extend wand ( yellow ) when downstreaming or that wiil effect draw rate?

I been reading this and others PW bbs for long time and I want to thank all of you guys for sharing your knowledge and experience with others.

And thanks Administrators for this forums.

Vlad.

Vladis Services Inc.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Vlad, you're very welcome. We're glad you find them to be of benefit to you, and we look forward to seeing you online! :)

Beth & Rod

[ron p 500]

vlad, did you get your extenda wand with 1/4 hose[standard] or special order 3/8ths hose?

if you got the standard your downstreamer may not work at all, depend's on how long of a pressure line you use.

Use a x-jet to aplly chem and your wand to wash/rinse.

ONENESS No you cant get a 2 to 1 draw with a x-jet and a 5 gpm unit. Only a 4 gpm will get a 2 to 1 draw.

35% to 40% is the best you can do with a 5 gpm unit and ANY downstreamer.

I sure wish someone could prove me wrong but no downstreamer that i know of can get a better draw rate then the x-jet.

[Mike Williamson 198]

ron:

According to the chart provided with the XJet, a 5gpm machine gives you 2:1. I don't know if this is true, since I have a 5.6 gpm machine. I drain a 5 gallon bucket in just about 2 1/2 minutes. I haven't timed it to be exact, but if I get the chance tomorrow I'll do that.

I agree, I wish someone would develop a downstreamer that would draw 2:1....

[Mike Cappa 14]

since the x jet is a modified downstreamer, how about modifying it even further, putting another qc on the output end and attaching it at the reel, could work?

[Mike Williamson 198]

Mike:

I don't think so...I tried attaching a QC to the Xjet, so I could attach the close range nozzle quickly...didn't work. The draw rate went WAY down. That may be one reason the XJ performs better than a regular downstreamer. That was my main complaint with the XJ, that it was a pain to go back and forth....Just got my M5 and will play with it tomorrow. Hopefully it is as good as everyone says it is.

[Mike Cappa 14]

did you just attach the qc, or re thread the outlet side to make the orfice larger?

[Mike Williamson 198]

Mike:

Just threaded the female QC onto the XJ, and the male QC onto the tip.