Chemical Tank for Downstreaming

[Buckeye 14]

I am going to set up a chemical tank that I can downstream from. The following web site has a tank I'm interested in or if I can find one similar for cheaper. I like it because of its cone bottom design.

http://www.plastic-mart.com/class.php?item=135

My main question is whether or not to hook up the plumbing from the top or the bottom. How does hooking up the plumbing from the bottom effect my syphoning?

Any hints, tips, ideas and critique would be helpful.

Thanks,

Chris

[PressurePros 249]

As long as your chemical mixes were clean (no sediment or separation) I would think it would be better to take advantage of the gravity feed.

[John Orr 206]

Think about it...you will be using your machine to draw the chem. No gravity involved. You will draw the same regardless of the shape, or location of the port. (Having the port located at the base of your container will hasten the leaking of chem into your vehicle. IMO)

Here's a possible solution: Select ANY container/tank and install a dip tube. Set it to draw from near the bottom and install a filter. Simply connect to the dip tube whenever you need to downstream.

Here's another: Add about 2' of plastic pipe (3/8" I think) to your downstream hose. Add a filter to the end of the pipe. Having this setup allows you to draw from any container, without having the hose curling inside.

[PressurePros 249]

John, I am not saying you are wrong but its hard for me to fathom that there would be no difference in draw rate. If on one hand the venturi is trying to suck chemicals over a 6 foot tube with half of that being a vertical rise, how could that equal that same downstreamer having a force fed supply from which to draw. I am weak on the physics side of things so I guess I am just asking for an explaination of why.

[Keth 15]

That tank looks like it is meant to be standing in a garage and not on a trailer. Imagine the torque of a full tank as you go around corners with the weight up so high. That would scare me.

Here is my chem tank, plumbed with a three way valve. Turn it one way and the injector gets the housewash mix, turn it the other way and it sucks fresh water from the big tank to flush and rinse the injector at the end of the job. No messy hoses to deal with at all.

[DustinC 64]

Keth,Do you premix 30 gallons of house wash.I like that idea but my concern is weakening of the sodium hypochlorite either from whats in my mix or being out in the sun in that clear tank.Are these issues for you or do you go through house wash so fast that it dose'nt matter? Sorry for the hijack.

[John Orr 206]

John, I am not saying you are wrong but its hard for me to fathom that there would be no difference in draw rate. If on one hand the venturi is trying to suck chemicals over a 6 foot tube with half of that being a vertical rise, how could that equal that same downstreamer having a force fed supply from which to draw. I am weak on the physics side of things so I guess I am just asking for an explanation of why.

Experience. I have done it both ways and have noticed no difference. I suppose on the molecular level, there may be a difference, but I don't know that it is measurable.

[Anthony G 14]

Also....please remember that for your chem tank to have a gravity feed effect that the level in the tank would have to be considerably higher in level than the height of where it feeds into the pressure washer or it is still sucking it in.

[Keth 15]

Keth,Do you premix 30 gallons of house wash.I like that idea but my concern is weakening of the sodium hypochlorite either from whats in my mix or being out in the sun in that clear tank.Are these issues for you or do you go through house wash so fast that it dose'nt matter? Sorry for the hijack.

I premix what I think I will need for a job and put a little extra in. I can usually estimate within a couple of gallons so I don't have to worry. Most typical houses are 7-9 gallons so I will put 5 gallons of SH and 5 of housewash detergent. Since my trailer is stored indoors I don't worry about the UV problems and if I know it is going to be sitting in the driveway for a few hours before a job I just throw a moving blanket over it. It has about 20 gallons in that picture as I was about to do two houses that day which for me is rare since I usually try to only schedule one a day but they were next door to each other.

I also have a 5 gallon jug that I always throw in the truck bed. This is usually a heavy duty Wando Bomb mix that I can x-jet. Usually contains about 8 ounces of Potassium Hydroxide, 12% SH and housewash mix. On a house that hasn't been cleaned in awhile one side is usually real green and I hit it with the Bomb to save me having to downstream it two or maybe three times. It has saved me a couple of times when I underestimated the amount to put in the 35 gallon tank.

[PRESSURE PACKED 14]

Can You Take A Picture Of The Hose Connections At The Pressure Cleaner

[Keth 15]

Not exactly sure what you need but here is the hose from the chem tank connected to the downstream injector just before the reel swivel.

[Buckeye 14]

Thanks Guys, I'm just using a 15 gallon tank now....nothing fancy. I like the idea of 2' of plastic pipe that John mentioned. I might try that.

Question for Keth....You say you downstream 5 gallons of SH 12.5% and 5 gallons of housewash detergent....what draw rate do you get on your downstreamer?? I can only get a 10 to 1 ratio on mine and at that rate the SH hitting the wall would only be 0.6%. You would have to have an injector that gets 5 to 1 to get in the range of 1.25% SH hitting the wall.

Where do you get your injectors? I tried the one from Mobi Clean that claims a 20% draw rate which would equate to 4 to 1. I doubted that I would be able to get that good a rate but I thought I would at least get better than my current 10 to 1 ratio or 9%. I was wrong and the best I can still get is 10 to 1. Just curious if you are doing something different to get a better draw rate.

Thanks again for everyones replys..!!

Chris

[PLD 14]

Experience. I have done it both ways and have noticed no difference. I suppose on the molecular level, there may be a difference, but I don't know that it is measurable.

For a primed line, the net effect is the difference between the outlet and the inlet. The intermediate highs and lows are of no consquence. For a non-airtight storage tank, the inlet height is the fluid level and not the height of the actual pipe inlet.

Why? The liquid rises 6 feet from the bottom of the tank, and then falls 6feet to the pump inlet. On the upside, gravity introduces 2.54 psi of resistance. On the downside, it offers 2.54 psi of assistance. The net effect is zero.

If the net is greater than zero, the falling liquid will pull the rising liquid up and a siphon is formed. If the net is less than zero, the fluid will move up the tube until it reaches equilibrium and stops. This will happen precisely at the level of the liquid in the tank.

And yes, that means that you can put your chem tank on a roof, drop the hose 50 stories, back up 50 stories, and the net lift (less 1k ft of line loses) to your gun is just the height between the tank and your gun.

[john@AEC 37]

Question for Keth....You say you downstream 5 gallons of SH 12.5% and 5 gallons of housewash detergent....what draw rate do you get on your downstreamer?? I can only get a 10 to 1 ratio on mine and at that rate the SH hitting the wall would only be 0.6%. You would have to have an injector that gets 5 to 1 to get in the range of 1.25% SH hitting the wall.

Where do you get your injectors? I tried the one from Mobi Clean that claims a 20% draw rate which would equate to 4 to 1. I doubted that I would be able to get that good a rate but I thought I would at least get better than my current 10 to 1 ratio or 9%. I was wrong and the best I can still get is 10 to 1. Just curious if you are doing something different to get a better draw rate.

Chris

G'day Chris

I also use one of Mobi Clean's 20% injectors (variable rate - wide open) and get heaps of draw. I've not had a problem with strength at wall, rather have thought of decreasing strength to save chem.

My machine is 3600psi, 15litres/min (about 4 gpm), I usually spray with a #40 or #50 tip.

One day I'll get around to testing the actual draw rate.

My tanks are in the truck and the pump is mobile and my hose is only 150', so to get more distance from the truck I have also connected the 12v to the chem tanks and then to the downstreamer, again I haven't tested the chem flow, but "think" it is slightly higher again.

Are there any obstructions to your line? do you have a ceramic ball & viton seal? (the others will corrode/swell etc and jam in the housing - been there done that sworn a lot) Does your soap thicken the mix?

Cheers

[PRESSURE PACKED 14]

Not exactly sure what you need but here is the hose from the chem tank connected to the downstream injector just before the reel swivel.

THANKS,CURRENTLY I HAVE A REMOVABLE CHEMICAL INJECTOR AT THE PUMP. AND I LIKE THE WAY YOU HAVE YOURS SET UP BETTER SO I APPRECIATE THE TIME ..YOU TOOK TO TAKE A PICTURE

[Buckeye 14]

G'day Chris

I also use one of Mobi Clean's 20% injectors (variable rate - wide open) and get heaps of draw. I've not had a problem with strength at wall, rather have thought of decreasing strength to save chem.

My machine is 3600psi, 15litres/min (about 4 gpm), I usually spray with a #40 or #50 tip.

One day I'll get around to testing the actual draw rate.

My tanks are in the truck and the pump is mobile and my hose is only 150', so to get more distance from the truck I have also connected the 12v to the chem tanks and then to the downstreamer, again I haven't tested the chem flow, but "think" it is slightly higher again.

Are there any obstructions to your line? do you have a ceramic ball & viton seal? (the others will corrode/swell etc and jam in the housing - been there done that sworn a lot) Does your soap thicken the mix?

Cheers

I tested the draw rate as soon as I got the new injector with just straight water. 10 to 1 was best I could get. No line obstructions and yes it has a ceramic ball. It is however a High Draw Injector/Non-Adj, Ready to Go from Mobi Clean, so maybe there is a difference uising the variable rate injector.

Thanks for your reponse,

Chris

[Mike Williamson 198]

I am going to set up a chemical tank that I can downstream from. The following web site has a tank I'm interested in or if I can find one similar for cheaper. I like it because of its cone bottom design.

http://www.plastic-mart.com/class.php?item=135

My main question is whether or not to hook up the plumbing from the top or the bottom. How does hooking up the plumbing from the bottom effect my syphoning?

Any hints, tips, ideas and critique would be helpful.

Thanks,

Chris

That tank is not designed for vehicle mounting, and is kinda small.

For not much more money, you can get a 65 gallon tank similar to what Keth has on his rig from Tractor supply. 4 eye bolts and two cargo straps and a few fittings and you're in business.

Keth: I like your valve setup. Where'd you get the valve?

[Mike Williamson 198]

Keth,Do you premix 30 gallons of house wash.I like that idea but my concern is weakening of the sodium hypochlorite either from whats in my mix or being out in the sun in that clear tank.Are these issues for you or do you go through house wash so fast that it dose'nt matter? Sorry for the hijack.

I use a 65 gallon tank, and fill it close to full with SH and soap. Usually lasts a week or so, with isn't nearly long enough for the SH to break down enough to notice.

Much nicer to just pull the hose off the trailer, turn the ball valve on the tank on, fire the machine up, and start working. No mixing for each job.