PWNA wants feedback folks!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

OK gang,

This is your chance. First off, I want to thank all of you who voted for me. Your votes are going to keep me very busy this year, and for a few years to come. Those of you who know me, know I am all about education and excellence.

You should also know I speak up about what I believe in, and I'll use this same voice to share the things that YOU want. I'll convey to the Board what you want, and I'll do it with your name or anonymously as you request. All you have to do is post in this thread, and I'll do my very best to help you all.

I want to also share a little about the meetings I sat in while I was in Las Vegas. I can tell you that some very exciting, forward thinking things are going to happen, and I feel confident that Doc Reisman will pick up where Chris Detter left off.

We did some exciting things in the meetings. We went through a process of analyzing the PWNA's strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. From there we all chose areas that we thought were most important. After we all voted, we outlined goals based upon the results. These goals will help dramatically in improving the PWNA. I have seen this process in action in large corporations before, and was very pleased to see them in use in the meeting.

I know you have probably all heard alot about environmental issues and how things are going in California and Texas. I know that many of you are wondering how it will effect you in your area. We discussed that too. Basically, our Federal Government's EPA has a mandate that certain things must happen and that power washers must be compliant.

Mr. Robert Hinderliter of Delco saw the opportunity to provide input during the initial stages as those two states began to regulate based upon the EPA's mandate. This has helped us all. How? Well, had he not done this, we would be at the mercy of both State and Federal Government knowing enough about our industry to be able to write the laws that we have to comply with.

However, since Mr. Hinderliter was so active in both California and Texas, his input was used and the adopted laws are written to ensure that we all will have jobs. Other states are under time constraints to comply with these EPA mandates. These other states will look to California and Texas.

To learn more click here:

http://www.dcs1.com/del/delpg5/index.html

Again, thanks for your support, and let me know what's important to you.

Beth :cool:

[John T 744]

I have to think about this long and hard before I post.

Also I am somewhat suspicious about Roberts involvement with the enviromental end of powerwashing. Don't get me wrong I like Robert and he has been probably the number one supporter of the Powerwashing Industry.

The problem I'm having with Roberts involvement is that Roberts top priority for the last bunch of years is to sell his products such as Powerwashers, Chemicals, RECLAIMING EQUIPMENT etc.etc.etc.

I get the feeling that he is pushing for the powerwashers to reclaim there water. This I don't like. Its right up there with you out there powerwashing and someone watching you calls the EPA just to make things difficult for you. Then the end result is you have to spend another $10,000 just to be compliant and guess who will be selling this equipment.

Its just a theory and it could be way off base but when I feel uncomfortable about something my instincts kick in.....which means I smell a rat somewhere. I just can't put my finger on where this rat is coming from.

[John T 744]

If Kendra ever posts her story about reclaiming etc. etc. I am definitely going to read it.

Sorry Beth I didn't give any imput on the PWNA here. I will when I get more time. Personally I think there doing a fine job most of the time.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Well, as I understand it, the EPA was headed toward making suggestions that we could not have been able to conform to at all. True Delco stands to benefit, but so do other companies who sell reclaim equipment, and there are others out there.

Read the info. From what I remember, in some cases disposing to a sanitary sewer is an option.

Beth

[Everett Abrams 501]

John T.,

I looked all over in Vegas for you , I thought you might catch a Red Eye! I don't usually chime in on such issues , however this time I shall. Robert Hinderliter and Delco have done much for this industry , and yes he makes money from the industry. I applaud him for that. We are much better with him involved in this industry and a lot of his work has been because of his passion. For those who weren't in Las Vegas for the "Outdoor Demos" you missed an unbelievable display of this passion. You could visibly see Robert working with the machines , surface cleaners , and different attachments. My guess is if someone didn't take the equipment away he would still be there washing the entire Riviera! If everyone had this passion I could tell you how successful you would be. Sacramento and other areas are setting regulations , not Robert Hinderliter. I think it is admirable that he has gotten involved and help guide the regulations , make an impact. Now , with that being stated, I think it is smart business to be involved , stay ahead of the curve , and then design equipment that keeps a contractor in compliance. I don't know for sure but I would imagine that Robert Hinderliter has put much "free time" in this industry. I know the perception that is out there and I recognize it as so , my take is that meet the man , see his passion , and then decide whether we are better off with him in this in dustry and his involvement. I have and I thank him for that. Again , this is my opinion only. John are you going to be going to Dallas next year? Also , For the next Roundtable Meeting we are going to be having a speaker from the EPA.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

here's phoenix laws since 1998

CITY OF PHOENIX

PREVENT STORM WATER CONTAMINATION

Best Management Practices

For Carpet, Building and Food-Related Mobile Cleaning

Last Modified: April 2, 1998

General Information:

Commercial/industrial wash water is prohibited from entering the storm drain system, street or any other outside area. Before discharging any water to the storm drain, call Storm Water Management at 602-256-3190 for more information and permission to discharge

All washing activities that use soap, solvents, degreasers or any other chemicals must be hauled to a landfill or discharged into the sanitary sewer through a sand/oil interceptor or approved pretreatment device. For more information about pretreatment devices and procedures, contact the Office of Pollution Control at 602-262-1859.

Non-Hazardous Liquid Waste Haulers and can be found in the Phoenix Yellow pages under Septic Tank Cleaning.

Carpet and drapery cleaning

Wash water is not allowed in the storm drain, street or any other outside area.

Wash water must be discharged to the sanitary sewer or landfill.

Ask your customer if you can discharge the wash water into the sanitary sewer (a toilet, sink or clean out) on the job site.

Use a lint trap or filter when discharging to the sanitary sewer, dispose of the lint or fibers in the trash.

If wash water is collected and transported from the wash site, it may be discharged into the first stage of a sand/oil interceptor at your place (contractor's) of business.

Untreated wash water may kill plants. Do not use it for landscape irrigation.

Building surface cleaning Exterior walls with soap

Wash water can not be discharged to the storm drain or street.

Collect and discharge all wash water to the sanitary sewer or a landfill.

Untreated wash water may kill plants. Do not use wash water for landscape irrigation.

Seal the storm drains with an impervious material before washing begins.

If wastewater is contained on-site for later removal, it must be picked up by an authorized Non-Hazardous Liquid Waste Hauler.

Glass and Steel buildings Exterior walls, with water only

Direct wash water to landscaped areas or sanitary sewer.

Seal storm drains with a fabric filter to collect dirt and debris.

Before washing begins, sweep, shovel and dispose of debris in the trash.

Masonry efflorescence (acid washing)

Wash water is prohibited from entering the storm drain, street or any other outside area.

Seal the storm drains using an impervious material before washing begins.

Collect all wash water. Vacuum or pump the wash water to a holding tank for analyses and disposal.

Adjust the wastewater to a pH between 5.0 and 10.5 before discharging to the sanitary sewer. Dilution is not an acceptable pretreatment. Call 602-262-1859 for more information.

Filter out sand, dirt and debris before discharge, if necessary.

Buildings painted after 1978, with paint in good condition-without soap

Direct wash water to landscaped area or sanitary sewer.

Seal all storm drains with a fabric filter to collect paint chips, dirt and debris.

Buildings painted with lead-based or mercury-based paint-with or without soap

Wash water is not allowed in the storm drain, street or any other outside area.

Seal the storm drains with an impervious material before washing begins.

Collect all wash water. Vacuum or pump the wash water to a holding tank for laboratory analyses and disposal.

Water and sludge may be a hazardous waste; laboratory testing may be required to determine the proper method of disposal.

Sidewalks and plazas-without soap

Direct wash water to landscaped areas or sanitary sewer.

Before washing begins, sweep, shovel and dispose of debris in the trash.

Seal storm drains with a fabric filter to collect dirt and debris.

Sidewalks and plazas-with soap

Wash water is not allowed in the storm drain or street.

Before washing begins, sweep, shovel and dispose of debris in the trash.

Seal storm drains with an impervious material, before the washing process begins.

Collect all wash water. Vacuum or pump the wash water to a holding tank for analyses and disposal.

Contained wash water may be discharged to the sanitary sewer or landfill.

If collected wastewater is transported form the wash site, it may be discharged into a sand/oil interceptor at your place of business. Call 602-262-1859 for more information.

Restaurant alleys, grocery dumpster areas with or without soap

Wash water is not allowed to enter the storm drain or street.

Dry clean; use rags, absorbents and sweep up debris.

Seal storm drains with an impervious material, before the washing process begins.

Collect all wash water. Vacuum or pump the water to a holding tank for analyses and disposal.

Pretreatment of all wastewater through a sand/oil interceptor may be required before discharge to sanitary sewer. Call the Office of Pollution Control for more information.

Filter the wash water and dispose of the debris as trash.

Mobile Caterers with or without soap

Wash water is not allowed in the storm drain or street.

Seal storm drains with an impervious material, before the washing process begins.

Use dry cleaning methods. Collect solid debris in plastic bags and dispose of it in the trash.

Sweep and shovel dirt and place it in the trash.

Wash water must be discharged to the sanitary sewer through a City approved sand/oil interceptor.

Uncontaminated ice water may be discharged to landscaped areas.

Truck trailer, interior cleaning (food related) with or without soap

Wash water is not allowed in the storm drain or street.

Seal storm drains with an impervious material, before the washing process begins.

Pretreatment of all wash water through a sand/oil interceptor is required before discharge to the sanitary sewer.

Use dry cleaning methods. Sweep, shovel and dispose of debris as trash.

Use a wash rack to capture wash water.

Grocery carts - without soap

Direct wash water to landscaped areas or sanitary sewer.

Seal storm drains with a fabric filter to remove dirt, trash and other debris.

Before washing begins, sweep, shovel and dispose of debris in the trash.

Grocery carts - with soap

Wash water is not allowed in the storm drain or street.

Seal storm drains with an impervious material, before the washing process begins.

Collect all wash water. Vacuum or pump the water to a holding tank for analyses and disposal.

Contained wash water may be discharged to the sanitary sewer or landfill.

If wastewater is contained on-site for later removal, it must be picked up by an authorized Non-Hazardous Liquid Waste Hauler.

Training

Train personnel on the safety, use and waste practices of cleaning chemicals and materials.

Develop and implement a Storm Water Management Plan.

If a spill occurs:

Stop the source of the spill immediately.

Contain the liquid until cleanup is complete.

Deploy containment booms, if the spill may reach a storm drain, wash or the street.

Cover a liquid spill with an absorbent material.

Keep the area well ventilated.

Dispose of clean-up materials properly.

Do not use emulsifiers or dispersing agents.

Storm Drains Are For Rain Water, Pure And Simple.

City of Phoenix

STREET TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT

MIKE LOFFA, SR. QUALITY WATER INSPECTOR

200 W. WASHINGTON ST., 5TH FLOOR

PHOENIX, AZ 85003

(602) 256-3190

[John T 744]

Everett,

How come we can't get the PWNA convention to meet in Atlantic City?? Whats in Dallas besides the Cowboys??(Just Joking)

Maybe I'll go to Dallas.

I have to agree with You about Robert Hindeliter"s Passion concerning this Industry and I never even met the man and only spoke to him once via phone while placing an order from Delco. I was impressed that he would even take shipping orders himself considering who he is. That tells you something about the man.

I hope none of you guys that represent the PWNA feel like I think that Robert is doing a diservice to the industry. That could not be further from the truth.

I'm sure Robert is doing alot of positive things as far as helping out States with there regulations rules(EPA) to our advantage(Powerwashers).

Te only thing that irks me is that he is also in the business to make money off these reclemation set-ups which of course is no fault to him. ITs actually extremely smart of him to get involved.

Considering that I have NO way to reclaim my water with the equipment that I have and invested alot of Money in why would I ever want to reclaim anything if don't have to?? Thats my point. Thats it.

Of course when the day comes that I have to reclaim my water then I will have to either comply or move on to other business opportunities if it just isn't worth the expense and headache to change.

I'd be willing to bet rain water on average(Especially in big cities) is more polluted then the water coming out of my powerwasher when I'm cleaning commercial establishments. Does the EPA expect to have the Rain water reclaimed?(Just making a point)

I think were getting a bad rap from the EPA which of course is no fault at all from Robert H.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Originally posted by John T.

I'd be willing to bet rain water on average(Especially in big cities) is more polluted then the water coming out of my powerwasher when I'm cleaning commercial establishments. Does the EPA expect to have the Rain water reclaimed?(Just making a point)

It is not the water coming out of your pressure washer that they are concerned with. It is the dirt that you are removing and the chemicals that they are concerned about.

Even a small cold water pressure washer with no chemicals, will release more grime, than a big rain event will. (not referring to dust, leaves, etc)

[John T 744]

Obviously I'm not an expert when it comes to what the laws are when it comes to dealing with the EPA. I'm just like most here who would like to get a better understanding on what is going on with this topic of Reclaiming ones water.

I can see that the EPA would want one to Reclaim there water if they are using Chemicals with there COMMERCIAL cleaning. Fair enough. As to the part about loosening up the dirt and grime and then having to reclaim it that seems to be asking a bit much from us. The reason I say this is because for example, people fertilize there lawns on average 4 times a year and there is no problem as far as I know about that being illegal even though everyone knows that most Fertilizer is bad for the enviroment as in drinking water if it goes deep enough. Automobiles pollute a gazillion times more a week then all the powerwashers can ever do probably in a thousand years.

Since most of my Commercial work at this time is Flat work, I hardly ever use chemicals. 5GPM Hot water at 3000psi is all I need and if the day comes that I will have to reclaim it then I think we got railroad!!!!!!!!!!!

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Water recovery is not as hard as some people think it is. Sure there are companies that sell very expensive setups and they look real nice, but it can be done on an affordable budget.

[John T 744]

Yes I'm sure at times water recovery isn't that complicated or expensive but for Commercial flat work cleaning it could get pretty expensive and that is money that I wouldn't want to spend.

Just think the cost alone to run to Surface Cleaners where the water has to be reclaimed. Something like the Fury comes to mind here and that piece of equipment is not cheap and you would need 2 of them.

IF I had the time and the expertise I would try to fight the EPA on certain issues but of course I have neither. I hope someone could stand up for us small guys and make a stand.

[Everett Abrams 501]

One Tough Pressure is right for some it isn't as costly as you think. The main thing is to get educated and learn as much as you can. Also, he is exactly right on the what you are washing off and not just the water. In truth the person washing their car off in there driveway and letting the water go down the driveway and into a city storm drain is technically in violation.

John T.,

We should be having someone from the NJ EPA at the next roundtable meeting in October , he has agreed to present . We just have to secure a date and if it is a Saturday he needs to get approval. The PWNA in A.C. , I'm all for it! If I want to see a bunch of females I'd rather go to Atlantic City than to go see the Dallas Cowgirls! Are they still in the NFL or did they get kicked out for imitating a football team! I'll hear it for this! We'll have to chat one night after work.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

John T,

Why would you want to fight the EPA? The impact of Pressure Washing hurts everyone. Sure, no one wants to hear that, but it is true.

[John T 744]

I have no reason to fight the EPA. At least not at this time because the restrictions they have been putting on the Powerwashers are not as stringent here...yet.

Cutting grass impacts everyone just from the lawn mower engine's alone(A counter point to above post).

I can see how distributors would LOVE to see the EPA require us to invest in very expensive equipment. Why should they fight for us when they stand to make money.

I personally don't like unfair rule changes and that is whats starting to happened.(Kendra where is your story??)

When you give in without a fight to groups like the EPA then you give them way to much power which they, like anyone else would take advantage of. An example of this would be to pass certain regulations such as forcing us to reclaim the water and failure to do so would be a $10,000 fine etc etc.

In a perfect world thats fine but since this is not a perfect world then maybe they should go after more important Pollutants then just us "NO POWER" small time powerwashers.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Originally posted by John T.

When you give in without a fight to groups like the EPA then you give them way to much power which they, like anyone else would take advantage of. An example of this would be to pass certain regulations such as forcing us to reclaim the water and failure to do so would be a $10,000 fine etc etc.

What do you mean pass a regulation and impose fines?

Here is the current set up, not sure if it applies to all States, but it does apply to many.

City fine $2000.00 per day

State Fine $10,000 per day

EPA Fine $25,000.00 per day

They can give you a warning or a fine depending on their attitude for the day.