fence

[ronnie 14]

finally something on internet i can get excited about. what a great site. when i decided to get into this bussiness i called a couple of locals to ask a few q's, none were receptive. anyway i got a 3500psi 4gpm coming in a few days, gona start with my fence. i need to strip old stain and apply new. if i use a roller, what size? how should i aplly stain to the rails and around steel posts with a brush? what about the top of the pickets? fence is yellow pine, one side is smoothe and other rough. thanks ronnie

[ron p 500]

Hi Ronnie, You put this question in the wrong area but im sure someone will get it to the right spot.

You should visit the STORE on this site and call beth.

She will set you up with the right chem's to get a professional looking job on your first try:D

You will need a stripper,nuet.,and a stain. All of which she sell's at very reasonable price's. Dont compare home depot junk chem's to her's. One is professioal and one is homeowner.

HMMMMMMMM? rail's and steel post's? Ill guess you have the wood fence attached to metal line post's?

You will need metal paint for the metal and WOOD TUX for the wood. A garden type pump-up sprayer will be how you apply the stain.[get some cardboard to protect the grass, not plastic tarp's, you wont the card board to suck up the extra stain, not run off]

Their is a ton of good post's about wood refinnishing here. Use the search.

[Mike Cappa 14]

I have to disagree with applying stain with a pump up. That is how a homeowner can do it. Don't get me wrong, you can do it that way, but an airless sprayer works much better, much faster and atomizes the stain to penetrate deeper into the wood. In my opinion, you never want to do a job the same way a homeowner can do it or they will (sometimes) question why they hired you. I doubt you will get questioned, but they will ask themselves and if they watch you do it, they will think they know how and try it themselves the next time.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Mike,

Tell you what... Let's do two decks, side by side. You take that airless, we'll take the pump up. We'll see whose looks more professionally done.

You never ever, knock the tools. There are very valid reasons for using a pump up. We have both airless and pump up in house, but the REAL question is, what product are you applying? How old is the wood?

Using an airless with certain products can cause undesireable results due to the product being heated up as it is forced through the tiny orafice, causing the product to dry more quickly on the surface without the ability to penetrate first. Penetration is key to the longevity of a product. Don't rule out an airless, but make sure the product can withstand the process. Pump ups work fine for fences, just make sure you drape a tarp over the other side regardless of the applicator.

Don't laugh, but windex type bottles work like a CHARM for tight corners on rails and also on lattice. HUGE time saver.

Some homes are in close proximity to one another, such as townhomes. In these instances you get gusts of wind in the channel between the homes. You want to keep the product out of the air as much as you can in these areas, or a gust of wind could have you cleaning up the neighbors house.

Ronnie, call us anytime. We'll be glad to help you and share our expereince with you. We often use a pump up, although airless sprayers have a place too in certain circumstances. We also back pad the deck to work the product in. It gives you a nice satin like finish.

Beth;)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

By the way Ronnie, what's the current stain on the wood?

Beth

[Everett Abrams 501]

I wanted to chime in here on the first thing that jumps out at me. If you are doing a fence and it is the first one, you could do a TON of damage to that with that washer and 3500psi. With the right chemicals(see Beth) you should be able to do this project with less than 1000psi. You really need to be careful if this is your first fence. I commend you for doing it on your own first. Get as much info as you can first and practice on some pallets or waste wood first.

In regards to sprayers, when the product atomizes it actually turns into very fine droplets that float on air and can drift. These drops actually dry faster on the surfaces than other methods. This in turn allows for less penetration into the wood pores. The best method is still one that works the product into the surfaces(brush,mitts,pads,etc.) With that said I am sure there aren't very many people who don't spray a fence. We actually use an airless sprayer and backbrush the fence with a wide chinese bristle brush.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You can lower the PSI by changing to a larger orafice on your tips... hope this helps.

Beth :groovy3:

[Mike Cappa 14]

Beth, good point. I didn't use tons of different stains. I was happy with one and never varied from it. You are probably correct in reference to different types of stains. I can't say either way though, I haven't used a bunch of different companies stains.

Everett, I have never seen or done better work than when an airless was used. A friend made a good comment once, he said...when the best automobile, a rolls royce is built, it is done by hand, but when the finish is put on, it is sprayed, not put on by hand. Maybe they are on to something. And before anyone goes crazy, I know wood and metal are different, it was just a comment he made.

[Mike Cappa 14]

But...I personally would still use an airless/weather dependant.

[Everett Abrams 501]

This link is from the Western Red Cedar Lumber Association. Go down to application.

http://www.wrcla.org/finishingcedar/finishingconcepts/guidetoextfinishing.asp

Check this out from the USDA, got to methods for finishing at the end of the document.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1993/willi93a.pdf

There are actually many articles on this. The issue is how much quality do you swap for labor savings. To me that is more of the debate.

[reed 500]

I have a piston pump sprayer, the deckster, works good, but for fences I use a pump up. I get good results and have developed a great technique in using the one that I have.

Back to the original post by Ronnie.

You have made the right decision in getting a unit with enough pressure should you ever need that much pressure. But you seldom will. I would recommend you get a dual lance wand so you can dial the pressure up and down as needed when you are washing. Having a fence of your own to "play" with is another good move. Better to develope your skills on your own fence than on a paying customer's and get into trouble. Beth, here, offers some great chems and sealer for your business. Each chemical that you use, no matter where you get them, have limitations and uses. Research and practice with them.

Searching this site is one way to obtain information, but can be frustrating. If you can't find your answer by searching, post your question in the category it relates too, ie, wood, concrete etc. You will get some informed and expert responces.

When you are starting a business as I understand you are, it takes time to build up your equipment arsenal and build up your technique. Start small and soon you will see and learn ways of doing the job in a more productive manner. Many of us here will be more that glad to answer your questions and hopefully help you provide better service.

Again, good choice in doing your own fence first.

Ask away.

Reed

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

p.s. Hey Mike don't take me the wrong way, I love sealing decks (strange for a.... G-I-R-L) and I take alot of pride in doing it right. But I would do a deck side by side... ;) it's the compeditive streak in me....what can I say? :2eyes:

[ronnie 14]

wow what aload of info. ok the stain is behr semi fence is 5years old i put it on myself with a brush because alot of wind blowing. i was thinking of using a roller or a pump up thinking i could get more mileage with roller. not sure about stain, who sells ready seal? i have access to cabot, twp and a few others yall talk about. also after i strip fence does that neutralizer stuff make the wood ready for sealing? thanks again everybody, ronnie

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I would suggest HD-80 to remove it. Then you have to neutralize it with an acid. We sell a blend called Citralic. To seal it, I suggest Wood Tux. You'll love the look. Check out the Scrap Book forum.

Beth :groovy:

[paul-uk 500]

ronnie...look at reeds web site and then read his post again.....ring beth and your answers will be answered.

i live about a hour away from where they build rolls royces...and i have to honest i dont know of too many thay have been sprayed on a back porch of a house

;) ...cheers paul.

[Aplus 525]

I too use a pump up for spraying oil based stains on a fence. I've sprayed a few fences with solid latex, and for those you have to use an airless, the stain is too thick for a pump up.

Regarding the Rolls Royce.....The paint is laquer and is sprayed in a dust free room and baked on. Not even the slightest comparision to wood.

Regarding the brand of stain to use, it depends a lot on the color you desire. There are only a few brands I use, and the selection is based on the color that I want.

[James 624]

When your working high end woods (ipe' ,mahog, port orford or yellow cedar) it's best done with a brush. The oils have to be worked into the wood and penitration is slow. This could turn into a X rated reply !!!!! I'll stop now...

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I like a stain pad on Ipe myself. So does Rod. Sometimes you have to use a little elbow grease and darn near push it into the wood. Been there, done that.;)

Beth :groovy2:

[Aplus 525]

Fortunately, high end woods are usually not found on fences, which is what your question was about.

That means you can spray it, or apply with roller and pads. Often you need to employ all the methods mentioned to get a job done.

The objective being to get adequate stain on the fence, and none on the house and surroundings.

[reed 500]

Definitely use the HD80, behr can be a bear to get off, depends on how many coats, a suggestion on the hd80 is use full strength and let dwell for at least 10 to 15 minutes per coat. Then use as little pressure as possible and keep that tip 8" away. If it starts to fur up on you either reduce the pressure or back away a little more. The more you practice on that fence the better these replies will be understood. You will get the hang of it after a while.. As Beth said neutralize and don't skimp on the neutalizer.

Getting late,

Good luck, You can do it!!!!

Reed

[Paul B. 523]

There are two basic types of stains:

Film type - which forms a coating (film) on top of the wood (similar to paints).

Penetrating type - stains that are intended to penetrate deep into the wood to allow it to work from inside out (moisturize the wood).

One of the advantages of penetrating type sealer is that they can be cleaned and coated over several times before the need to strip and another is that they are generally much easier to strip off than film type stains.

As said earlier, you do not want the penetrating type to atomize, as can happen with high pressure airless sprayers, since this tends to make you apply a thinner coat and also will allow faster drying, which may not allow enough time for full penetration.

Larger orifice tips and lower pressure can prevent these problems.

With film type, atomizing is not as big of a problem, since the stain is intended to be mainly on the surface. The problem atomizing can create with film type sealers is that if it dries fast, blending start and stop areas becomes more difficult.

Painting a car differs, as no penetration is necessary; the paint should be atomized to apply in very thin coats since you would not want to have any runs ...and of course back-brushing would be a major problem along with using a staining pad, a brush or applying with a pump up.

[ron p 500]

for you guy's that like to do it by hand. I was wondering if you ever tried a "stain stick" from sear's?

You know the tube handle that draw's in the stain and you push down on it to release the stain to the stain pad.

I had to do some fence's that were between condo's and they only wanted one side done and not get any on the other side. These thing's worked pretty good[for that].

[James 624]

Tony this thread was all over the place. This year I did 2 cedar fences. They had to be sprayed and brushed in. I also see a few red wood fences and I am Quoting a deck that has Ipe' lattice work all over the place around a stone garden. Some of the stuff I see blows my mind at the amont of money spent in my area.

[Aplus 525]

James,

I was actually just ribbing ya a little. I knew you wern't talking about an Ipe fence.

When you did the new cedar fences, did you wash them first? I always do, to remove any mill glaze. Funny thing is, there is a local fence builder here that offers a staining of the wood before the fence is assembled. He uses TWP, and sprays all the components before assembly. They look really nice done this way, but they don't seems to hold up as well, because the stain really can't penetrate the way it would if the mill glaze was removed.

In all my years in this biz, I've only done one redwood deck, and no other fancy wood species.

White cedar and pressure treated pine dominate in this part of the country. I have never seen any other wood species in any of the lumber mills or chains, at any price.

My observation is that the very high end homes around here don't even bother with wood decks. They go with stamped concrete, and such.

[James 624]

I do a mild bleach wash. Then 2 lite coats ready seal.

I do not see any more pressure treated decks on homes over 300k. More composite all the time. A few deck builders I get refered by stopped using PT all to geather because of CCA and future lawsuits.

[Paul B. 523]

ACQ treated lumber is available at many (if not all) Lowe's hardware stores to replace CCA treated lumber.

Contains no arsenic, chromium, or any other EPA listed hazardous compounds.

One of the manufacturers:

www.ufpi.com/product/ptlumber/index.htm

Health Information on ACQ Treated Lumber:

www.health-enter.com/acq-treated-lumber-health-information/acq-treated-lumber-health-information.html