What's wrong with this guy ? ....

[quickestimate 14]

Hello

This guy is trying to "educate" our customers . There is few links on his website to forums like TGS . I don't think it's a good idea to show customers our tricks and problems.

Check this out ! 1234me Pressure Washing L.L.C. Industry Links

[1234me.com 14]

Jarrod -

1. I haven't had a request for a house wash in 2 years. So I haven't taken any anyone off the market.

2. Are you they guy who stole my signs last year?

3. Why don't you send me an email telling me what prices you think are fair. My prices do change depending on what my materials are, but seriously can you really get $2 a square foot in Michigan in today's economy? If so you really are a better salesman then I.

4. You call be a lowballer, I disagree. My prices are fair. i lost a job to someone who washed a Gazebo for $25. Really $25. I won't work for $10 an hour as my reate is several times that.

5. A disgrace, I've seen many, many, many others in the same publications we are in at $99. It's being competitive. I lost my corporate job because of competition. That's life. Yes I'd like to make $10 bucks a square, but that is not reality.

6. Just because you've been in the industry doesn't mean your doing everything right! Just longer.

7. I'm going to be here so deal with it.

8. I'm fair and reasonable.

[rholman 14]

wow, I left for a couple hours and there were like 10 posts since!.....

The whole point of using mortgages as an example is (1) it's something that is in the news and you are witnessing what "questionable" sales tactics have done to many thousands of people nationwide(it affects cutomers and the companies) (2) Sales techniques that are obviously bait n switch should be condemned. (3) I just got out of the mortgage business after 2.5 years(12 years of pressurewashing prior) and I LEARNED real quick how you can manipulate people into believing a lie just to get them hooked and then spring the truth on them later.

After 12 years of pressure washing I must have lived a sheltered life because I wasn't aware that crap was really going on. I was shocked that the "professionals" in the industry were misleading their customers from day one. It comes down to this....if your FIRST contact with a customer is based on a little white lie(ie. $99 housewash) then what does that say about your character?

To me it's a no-brainer.....if you have to resort to bait n switch then you are either scum OR you are letting the market turn you into scum. I'm not into telling people what they want to hear.....I'm into telling them what they need to hear. Instead of misleading people yearly and not getting a high return of referrals or repeat business, why don't you take the time to build a good reputation for quality and you won't have to advertise so hard in the years to come. Just like mortgages....those guys HAVE TO keep advertising because nobody is calling them back because they screwed their customers in the past.

Why advertise a lie? makes no sense to me.

[cdposey26 14]

Again, I do not see this advertising as a lie. Where do you get that it is a lie?

[cdposey26 14]

Well, I am going to recuse myself from this conversation, I respect the different opinions here and good luck to everybody. I do not do any residential work, but so called "low ballers" effect me as well. I hope everyone finds a way to sell their service and has mucho success. Thanks for allowing me to chime in.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Was worded as a test, but hey his test didn't work out as he got no marklet there for house washes. There is no lie on this Ed's part. Could conscrew leaving prices up that waters down the other folks market but hey I bet this Ed would have went out and fullfilled the ad price if he was put to it.

[Jarrod 22]

Jarrod -

1. I haven't had a request for a house wash in 2 years. So I haven't taken any anyone off the market. I'm not talking about your house wash prices. It's your deck ad that sucks.

2. Are you they guy who stole my signs last year? (Rephrase) - Are you the guy that did the public AND the industry a great deed last year?

3. Why don't you send me an email telling me what prices you think are fair. My prices do change depending on what my materials are, but seriously can you really get $2 a square foot in Michigan in today's economy? If so you really are a better salesman then I. You already believe that it can't be done, so the answer is "No, you can't do it."

4. You call be a lowballer, I disagree. My prices are fair. i lost a job to someone who washed a Gazebo for $25. Really $25. I won't work for $10 an hour as my reate is several times that. $89.00 deck ads? I saw your ad.

5. A disgrace, I've seen many, many, many others in the same publications we are in at $99. It's being competitive. I lost my corporate job because of competition. That's life. Yes I'd like to make $10 bucks a square, but that is not reality. Go get another corperate job. I always found corp. guys to be useless and ignorant (false sense of reality) Being competitive? Why not try charging more, giving a better service and being successful? (I really don't know why I waste my time.)

6. Just because you've been in the industry doesn't mean your doing everything right! Just longer. Doing things right = doing things longer.

7. I'm going to be here so deal with it. That's fine, you can have the crumbs that fall from my table. When you starve on them and go under, I'll still be in business - deal with that.

8. I'm fair and reasonable.Rephrase - "I'm a lowballer."

Fellow pros, this is an example of what I'm surrounded by every year. People wonder why I HATE the $99 hacks so much, well this is why. They are all the same - stupid, useless idiots that do nothing but cause this industry to suffer.

Some of you reading this are probably thinking "Wow, Jarrod's being kinda harsh." Yes, I am! And rightly so. One thing is for certain, you can't change a lowballer's mentallity. They are that way because that is simply that way they are wired. I refuse to even attempt to help them anymore. Instead I treat them accordingly - like an irritating peice of gum on the bottom of my shoe - scrape it off and move on.

[seymore 90]

Soo Jarrod....what you trying to say is you have a problem with lowballers EH?? Tell us how you really feel!! :lglolly: :lgwave:

[Jarrod 22]

Soo Jarrod....what you trying to say is you have a problem with lowballers EH?? Tell us how you really feel!! :lglolly: :lgwave:

90% of the "contractors" here in MI are lowballers

[MMI Enterprises 289]

HMMM..thought it was clear by other discissions that low price don't equal lowballer..always thought of lowball meant the guy who undercut the next guy just enough to get the job...90% of people here do that?.. don't think so. Who here offers to change their rate for what they already may have quoted based on customer giving up anothers rate as a bargaining chip?.. I just try to help them out on what they might offer compared to I and if it turns out I do more than I may decide to offer to do less for equal amount...

This thread is as usual leaning towards abuse... can't you all just get along without insults?....haha. nah me neither...screws to all you 10% folk...you know to batten down yer hatches...lmaof..:umbrella:

[seymore 90]

90% of the "contractors" here are lowballers

That bites Jarrod i don't really come up against too many lowballers but i guess that's where refferals help.I will never EVER lower my price to compete against them for a job NEVER!

I've lost a few jobs for being priced to high but I still got a call from the H.O the next year to clean up their mess.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Play nice folks.

[seymore 90]

Who here offers to change their rate for what they already may have quoted based on customer giving up anothers rate as a bargaining chip?

NEVER my prices are what they are! I'm not gonna bargain prices but i will be fair and honest depending on the work to be done.

I don't really care what other people charge but if they tell me i'll listen but i'm not gonna lose any sleep over prices.

[Jarrod 22]

HMMM..thought it was clear by other discissions that low price don't equal lowballer..always thought of lowball meant the guy who undercut the next guy just enough to get the job...90% of people here do that?.. don't think so. Who here offers to change their rate for what they already may have quoted based on customer giving up anothers rate as a bargaining chip?.. I just try to help them out on what they might offer compared to I and if it turns out I do more than I may decide to offer to do less for equal amount...

This thread is as usual leaning towards abuse... can't you all just get along without insults?....haha. nah me neither...screws to all you 10% folk...you know to batten down yer hatches...lmaof..:umbrella:

Here, means in my area. $99 idiots are lowballers - period. Wake up man!

[MMI Enterprises 289]

true Jarrod. you meant there where yer at.. But fair enough to ask it of this here forum too as Shane obliged.

personally I a bit lost at this point and asleep due to not having clear definition of what the $99 amount applies to. Does it apply to a min. amount to show up?.. a 1.5k shack of a housewash or a 2.5k or what exactly?

It comes off by the way you address it Jarrod that it don't matter and if the job is less than a c note the guy must be a lowballer.

I'll start the washer for $80 if I am there or on a scheduled routine but that don't mean anything but a min. to unroll. It don't apply but for a small area of crete usually as an add on to other work. If I had 10 $99 driveways tomorrow I would be there and make some good bank.

[Jarrod 22]

true Jarrod. you meant there where yer at.. But fair enough to ask it of this here forum too as Shane obliged.

personally I a bit lost at this point and asleep due to not having clear definition of what the $99 amount applies to. Does it apply to a min. amount to show up?.. a 1.5k shack of a housewash or a 2.5k or what exactly?

It comes off by the way you address it Jarrod that it don't matter and if the job is less than a c note the guy must be a lowballer.

I'll start the washer for $80 if I am there or on a scheduled routine but that don't mean anything but a min. to unroll. It don't apply but for a small area of crete usually as an add on to other work. If I had 10 $99 driveways tomorrow I would be there and make some good bank.

The ad reads - any deck power washed $89.00 (up to 500 sq. ft.)

So, tell me Kevin, is this type of advertising good or bad for the industry?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

The ad reads - any deck power washed $89.00 (up to 500 sq. ft.)

So, tell me Kevin, is this type of advertising good or bad for the industry?

His inventory items (which I like about his site) do not read as such..maybe he changed them today..His front page read "FROM .25" since the beginning of the site being pointed out though so I doubt his main inventory pricing in his store was as low as your saying. Regardless, they are his prices no matter how low they be and he is welcome to them. You can use it as reflecting badly on the industry if you like but it don't make it so. Customers are not dumb and can read the "from", or the error of using the word 'horizontal' in his item descriptions when he means to measure it all, i.e- "Horizontal Surface Area (Deck floor, steps, & hand rails) is less then 500 SQ FT"

His type of advertising doesn't much allow for eyeballing and let's customer know up front that when they ask for a 500 sq. ft. quote for a deck wash that it won't result in wasting their time in recieving some out of line $500 quote. After all they just getting a wash and not a stain.

So to answer your question, no his advertising is not bad for the industry. If anything it is good as it leads towards consistant pricing IF he can provide results at them rates that is. I suspect you don't mind his type of advertise but rather the price of his advertise. I just see a few error that could use address to keep customers clear on pricing. Moreover though I don't really call his advertise as mattering so it not good nor bad on the industry. Bad on the industry is when jobs go unfinished or consist of subpar work like in that artwork thread of that deck getting all scarred up.

Maybe most are into the whole estimate estimate estimate mentality until ya got one on the hook. I prefure being upfront with pricing for the more simple stuff and get them done and over with without all the ad funding and efforts in securing the big fish.

Hope Ed don't mind if I model my site after his someday.

[1234me.com 14]

1. I haven't had a request for a house wash in 2 years. So I haven't taken any anyone off the market. I'm not talking about your house wash prices. It's your deck ad that sucks. I was trying to get the little jobs, you know like the front porches/decks

2. Are you they guy who stole my signs last year? (Rephrase) - Are you the guy that did the public AND the industry a great deed last year? So you are the guy who took my signs

3. Why don't you send me an email telling me what prices you think are fair. My prices do change depending on what my materials are, but seriously can you really get $2 a square foot in Michigan in today's economy? If so you really are a better salesman then I. You already believe that it can't be done, so the answer is "No, you can't do it." I've had many customers tell me they laughed at some guy trying 2 a square or even 1.50

4. You call be a lowballer, I disagree. My prices are fair. i lost a job to someone who washed a Gazebo for $25. Really $25. I won't work for $10 an hour as my reate is several times that. $89.00 deck ads? I saw your ad. Yes, it's competitve as you should know there are about 10 others with the same numbers, 4 starr, millenium? 1800 deck seal, etc. they all have fine print, chemicals extra, must also purchase stain for XX,

5. A disgrace, I've seen many, many, many others in the same publications we are in at $99. It's being competitive. I lost my corporate job because of competition. That's life. Yes I'd like to make $10 bucks a square, but that is not reality. Go get another corperate job. I always found corp. guys to be useless and ignorant (false sense of reality) Being competitive? Why not try charging more, giving a better service and being successful? (I really don't know why I waste my time.)I'm sure my work is on par and I have always been successful. I've paid for college while working in a shop, and am probably more handy then you.

6. Just because you've been in the industry doesn't mean your doing everything right! Just longer. Doing things right = doing things longer.What? Bad equasion. Each job should be done right period.

7. I'm going to be here so deal with it. That's fine, you can have the crumbs that fall from my table. When you starve on them and go under, I'll still be in business - deal with that. Not going to happen, your not conversing with an idiot. I'm glad your diversified as I'm sure I'll take some of the residential market away.

8. I'm fair and reasonable.Rephrase - "I'm a lowballer." Not quite, I don't take people for rides just because I can.

Fellow pros, this is an example of what I'm surrounded by every year. People wonder why I HATE the $99 hacks so much, well this is why. They are all the same - stupid, useless idiots that do nothing but cause this industry to suffer.

Do hacks actually spend time learning about their craft and going to these forums for useful tips? - No they don't. If I didn't care about what I do I wouldn't be here in the first place. Trying to get better. That is what should really bother you. I can compete at a different price level and deliver the same or better results.

Some of you reading this are probably thinking "Wow, Jarrod's being kinda harsh." Yes, I am! And rightly so. One thing is for certain, you can't change a lowballer's mentallity. They are that way because that is simply that way they are wired. I refuse to even attempt to help them anymore. Instead I treat them accordingly - like an irritating peice of gum on the bottom of my shoe - scrape it off and move on.

You reap what you sow. I believe in treating people fair and with respect. That is why in time I'm sure I will have no problem keeping my customers. People like honest people with integrity.

[Tmrrptr 164]

This is among the best threads on business practices I've seen.

I guess I'm competitive.

Each man sets his own price, the customer decides if we can work.

Some situations simply do not justify the best of things.

That's why there is Standard, Premium, and Deluxe.

r

[MMI Enterprises 289]

This is among the best threads on business practices I've seen......

Well said as usual Rich... we could move on from business practices to safe practices. Here enjoy this series of works people. They play one after the other..gets better as you go along:

TSG TV: Video Clips From The Smoking Gun

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

For what it's worth, most companies start out under priced compared to those that are more established due to a lower overhead load and less employees if any. Experience is something we all lacked in the beginning so this is a mute point.

They don't mean to be lowballers but in the beginning the operating expenses at this stage are an advantage over the older companies who have higher ones.

We started out pricing like others in the local papers and after the first year barely broke even. We were fortunate to restructure our prices every year since to establish a profit margin for the work after learning the first year how long it takes to do a project according to size and detail.

:think: ooohhhhh yuck! I was just having a flashback about toting around a stupid machine and all the hose and the chem sprayers and so on...my back was killing me! Everything is now mounted in the vehicle and only needing to pull off hoses and re-roll them once done.

All this reinvestment has caused our prices to go up because of the additional expenses associated with them. Lease and purchase payments, Insurances, fuel and maintenances, tires, brakes, umbrella coverages for the employee drivers.

Being in this higher priced category makes us develop a better presentation, and showing up in these types of vehicles so that people can see what they are paying for. Most really appreciate it over seeing us pull up in a private vehicle to validate the price in their minds.

Overall, prices are indicative of the companies size in general and not always just another lowballer per say. Those who can, will charge less. Doesn't always mean they aren't giving the best they can for the money. We still have customers who call us from our first year who pay prices that are 300% higher than their original estimate because of one major thing: Customer Service.

Rod!~

[Scott Paul 164]

1.

3. Why don't you send me an email telling me what prices you think are fair. My prices do change depending on what my materials are, but seriously can you really get $2 a square foot in Michigan in today's economy? If so you really are a better salesman then I. You already believe that it can't be done, so the answer is "No, you can't do it." I've had many customers tell me they laughed at some guy trying 2 a square or even 1.50

4. You call be a lowballer, I disagree. My prices are fair. i lost a job to someone who washed a Gazebo for $25. Really $25. I won't work for $10 an hour as my reate is several times that. $89.00 deck ads? I saw your ad. Yes, it's competitve as you should know there are about 10 others with the same numbers, 4 starr, millenium? 1800 deck seal, etc. they all have fine print, chemicals extra, must also purchase stain for XX,

I cannot speak for other markets but 15 years and 6500+ decks in the metro Detroit area I can defenitley say that I have experience.

The problem Jarrod has is legitimate. Unfortunatley the majority of the $99 deck wash and the $179 deck stain companies in our area do not play fair. They advertise false rates to get the call and go up from there with increases for items like: cleaners, strippers, brighteners, size, height, etc.. What it does is send a false message to the homeowner that these are established rates. I had a customer last year who tried to call me out on these prices after we washed his deck. How it panned out is as follows:

He was a past client that had a 300 square foot deck that we charged him $450 to clean, strip, brighten, and stain with TWP. After we washed and stripped his deck he came across a coupon for $99 to wash and $179 to stain. He called and yelled at us for ripping him off since it should only cost $279 and not $450. I have a 70% overhead and I tried to explain that to him how it would be impossible for me to do it for that price. He couldn't comprehend that, so he fired us and sent a check for $99 for the wash. Did I take him to court? No it wasn't worth the time but it did **** me off.

Ed I am sure you do quality work but you have modeled your pricing after companies who cheat in our area. Example: There is about 6 of these guys who offer a product called Cedartone Gold. There isn't such a product on the market. It is actually TWP Cedartone mixed with mineral spirits to water down the product. I am sure you do quality work and make a fair price at these numbers now, but it will become very difficult for you to grow your business at these numbers. Your margins will shrink as you grow so you most likely will need to "cheat" like the other guys or raise your prices.

The $99 guys don't bother me as much as they used to. I have come to the conclusion they will never go away and they will still be offering the same deals in the year 2050. There is a market in our area for all different price levels. We prefer to go after the higher end clients and offer a fair price and service at the $1.50-$2.00 price level.

[Scott Paul 164]

We still have customers who call us from our first year who pay prices that are 300% higher than their original estimate because of one major thing: Customer Service.

Rod!~

Customer service is key. 12 years ago I had a major problem that almost put me out of business. It was our 3rd year and we grew extremely fast. That year we did 700 Deck Restorations. Back then we had very little competition and it was easy to grow. The problem, I wasn't make any money and my customer serivice and quality was declining fast. The only way I could stay in business was to increase my prices by 50%. The next year we did about 300 decks but profited 3 times as much money while giving superior work and excellent customer service.

[FCPWLLC 233]

This is the mentality of what we call a low-baller.... Was slow so discounted price... Low-balling is defined as "Throwing out a number with the intent to be lowest price without any regard to actual factors to determine price." As seen in this thread... Try reaching a different type of prospect as this isn't a good customer. This is the type of customers you reach with $99 ads....

PressureNet.net Pressure Washing Business Forum -> Am I asking too much for my area?

Most of this stuff was brought to his attention almost 2 years ago... Got good advice from Celeste and other seasoned folks.....

PressureNet.net Pressure Washing Business Forum -> Another New Website

Pricing was discussed... I guess he just decided to join the rest...

PressureNet.net Pressure Washing Business Forum -> Pricing battle

I suppose this is what quality work is?.....

http://www.1234me.com/HTML/Photos/The%20Difference%20a%20Light%20Wash%20Makes!.jpg

It isn't a question of whether a competitior does quality work for a lower price. It is usually a question of HOW a competitor is able to quality work for so much less. Most often if studied real close, corners are cut that consumers don't see. Example in my area.... The guys that are able to offer lower prices are usually paying help "under the table" bypassing the legitimate expenses that I pay like Matching FICA, Unemployment Ins., Workers Comp. Payroll Processing etc... Some are Just blasting plain water and covering with solid stains and consumers think it looks good so no problem until the crap is peeling and the "Contractor" is nowhere to be found. Some hire ilegal immigrants. Some don't even register with local government and are bypassing local taxes, school taxes. These are just a few corners cut. Had one competitor picking up workers from Homeless shelter. Not quite professional.

So, it isn't the price itself, it's the methods used to get to those prices. A Legitimate, professional company can't work for the bids I've seen at times. I've seen bids that were equal to my customer acquisition cost. Why? Because the unregister door to door knocker has no "evidence" of thier "business" and can quote a lower price because he didn't spend a dime advertising for fear he'd be found by local Revenue dept.

It DOES affect us. It leaves prospects/consumer false sense of what our services are worth. Consumer think that all of us are the same. They think Legitimate Contractors are gouging because we are covering legitimate expenses and trying to pay our salary which is more than a farm hands salary. SALARY... That's another subject altogether... SOme are able to do cheaper work because they aren't interested in running a BUSINESS that shows a profit and covers expenses and salaries. They are just working a JOB that they happen to make for themselves. Thinking $30K is a great Salary compared to the factory job alternative. Why be the President of a company, wear all the hats we wear as heads of companies for pennies only to say "At least I don't work for the Man"? For all that I do to keep a business running, I better be making more than the alternative.

Enough from me.... I only post on the boards to increase my site ranking and sell products anyhow.... :lgmoneyey joke.... I have been accused LOL

[Jarrod 22]

1. I haven't had a request for a house wash in 2 years. So I haven't taken any anyone off the market. I'm not talking about your house wash prices. It's your deck ad that sucks. I was trying to get the little jobs, you know like the front porches/decks

2. Are you they guy who stole my signs last year? (Rephrase) - Are you the guy that did the public AND the industry a great deed last year? So you are the guy who took my signs

3. Why don't you send me an email telling me what prices you think are fair. My prices do change depending on what my materials are, but seriously can you really get $2 a square foot in Michigan in today's economy? If so you really are a better salesman then I. You already believe that it can't be done, so the answer is "No, you can't do it." I've had many customers tell me they laughed at some guy trying 2 a square or even 1.50

4. You call be a lowballer, I disagree. My prices are fair. i lost a job to someone who washed a Gazebo for $25. Really $25. I won't work for $10 an hour as my reate is several times that. $89.00 deck ads? I saw your ad. Yes, it's competitve as you should know there are about 10 others with the same numbers, 4 starr, millenium? 1800 deck seal, etc. they all have fine print, chemicals extra, must also purchase stain for XX,

5. A disgrace, I've seen many, many, many others in the same publications we are in at $99. It's being competitive. I lost my corporate job because of competition. That's life. Yes I'd like to make $10 bucks a square, but that is not reality. Go get another corperate job. I always found corp. guys to be useless and ignorant (false sense of reality) Being competitive? Why not try charging more, giving a better service and being successful? (I really don't know why I waste my time.)I'm sure my work is on par and I have always been successful. I've paid for college while working in a shop, and am probably more handy then you.

6. Just because you've been in the industry doesn't mean your doing everything right! Just longer. Doing things right = doing things longer.What? Bad equasion. Each job should be done right period.

7. I'm going to be here so deal with it. That's fine, you can have the crumbs that fall from my table. When you starve on them and go under, I'll still be in business - deal with that. Not going to happen, your not conversing with an idiot. I'm glad your diversified as I'm sure I'll take some of the residential market away.

8. I'm fair and reasonable.Rephrase - "I'm a lowballer." Not quite, I don't take people for rides just because I can.

Fellow pros, this is an example of what I'm surrounded by every year. People wonder why I HATE the $99 hacks so much, well this is why. They are all the same - stupid, useless idiots that do nothing but cause this industry to suffer.

Do hacks actually spend time learning about their craft and going to these forums for useful tips? - No they don't. If I didn't care about what I do I wouldn't be here in the first place. Trying to get better. That is what should really bother you. I can compete at a different price level and deliver the same or better results.

Some of you reading this are probably thinking "Wow, Jarrod's being kinda harsh." Yes, I am! And rightly so. One thing is for certain, you can't change a lowballer's mentallity. They are that way because that is simply that way they are wired. I refuse to even attempt to help them anymore. Instead I treat them accordingly - like an irritating peice of gum on the bottom of my shoe - scrape it off and move on.

You reap what you sow. I believe in treating people fair and with respect. That is why in time I'm sure I will have no problem keeping my customers. People like honest people with integrity.

You just don't get it. Go work at McDonalds

[MichiganPowerWashing.com 14]

Hi Jarrod

I agree with most of your posts . But don't be so harsh . We are in the business 7 years like you . I started kind of like Ed - low prices but luckly for my customers I already have 1 season of learning with other pw company . It took me only 1 season to see that low prices = lot of customers BUT also pointless to be in this business . So prices went up . It's crazy to clean the decks for $89, $99 or so . I don't like cheap customers ...there is always problem with them . They want Cadillac in VW price .

Ed , we meet twice and I know you are nice guy with big dreams in PW business - good for you bro , but looking at the picture from your website ( other post is liking to it ) tells us a lot about quality/experience you have.