Who Carries...???

[Guest rfitz]

Anyone anywhere know of where the defelting pads can be bought from,

I guess GREG no longer carries them, and I cant find them anywhere, ?

If need be I will start to manufacture them myself and resell them, but I would have to charge over $3.00 a piece because of the labor involved,

anyone know of a good source to buy them at in bulk...???

THX

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rob -

There are no good sources so far. I have been trying to get VARIOUS companies to make them since JUNE. There is more to this than you think. Don't blame Greg. I don't know what it is aboutthe companies that make this type of thing, but they are impossible to get an order from.

We all want them, and I'm still looking for a source. Several have let us down too.

Beth

[One Tough Pressure 580]

The way I read it awhile back, is that Greg made them, as nobody was selling them. Can't recall which bbs that was on, but I do recall it.

Why does he not carry them anymore?

[Guest rfitz]

Hi Beth,

Im not blaming Greg for not carrying them, I am however blaming him for not

replying to my post regarding this topic, I wish I would just get an answere from him either way, I can hand make these out of floor scrubber pads, it's just a pain in the u know what... Please keep me updated on when you may have them,

THX

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I agree they are a pain to make. We had to resort to that too. Had a GREAT sample come from a vendor, but the hole cut out in the middle was too big, and making it smaller seemed incomprehensible to them. Onward we go.... Believe me, when we do get our hands on them I'll send an email blast and post it right away.

Beth :groovy3:

[Rick G 14]

Can someone post a pic of one? I have a local guy here that will make just about anything. Ill take it to him and see what he says. He is a stand up guy.

[Paul B. 523]

I'm also working on several sources. I started looking into it for the same reason everyone else is. Greg got us hooked and then he forgot about us. After 3 months, I gave up on my order.

Even if he starts selling it again, I think there is a need for a second and maybe a third source. If he doesn't sell it, then there is a need for at least 2 sources to carry it. I think it only makes good business sense (from the consumer standpoint, anyway).

The problem is the core diameter is special (industry standard for the pad is 2-3/4"). The 5/8" core diameter requires a tooling charge, a tooling change and a special run, every time you order.

There are other ways to add the core hole, but if you are not working off a production line, the process is slow and therefore the cost goes up quickly. Adding the holes after the fact, is not the most cost effective way to go.

The larger the order, the easier it is to get - once you get thru to the source. People are not real interested in talking about special runs unless you are talking about "X" number of pads at a time.

The other problem is breaking into their production runs when they are busy - you are at their mercy for delivery, so you need to have a good feel for how much you'll sell in a season. If you have to order at the end of the season, you don't have customers to buy them all and you have many thousand $$ worth of pads sitting in inventory or no inventory for the customer to purchase.

The profit margins are not very much, for that much money being tied up, and if the product is sitting on the shelf.

I have set aside funds to become a primary or secondary source.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Paul,

Exactly! There has to be someone out there somewhere......

Rick, if thee were any left, we could photograph one. We have been making rough copies since June.

Beth

[reed 500]

I know this may have already been accomplished, but has anyone checked with 3M? The mother company makes so many things, and the defelting pads may be in the automotive division, just like my sandpaper, and not in the paint/wood areas.

Reed

[Paul B. 523]

Beth,

There is someone out there.

Reed,

3M is one of about 6 companies that makes the pad material.

The issue is in tooling for the core and quantities to make.

Most use rolling cutting dies and a new die insert (if they do not have it, can cost upwards of $5000). 10,000 pad is a quantity run of less than a half day (it should be less than 1 hour, knowing the converting process).

The larger a company, the more difficult it is to get to anyone who can make decisions and get you fast answers.

I've talked to countless people at different companies and their distributors with a great deal of frustration due to their lack of response or interest. It's amazing how you can talk face to face with someone and tell them what you need, then when you talk to them 2 weeks later they still have not done anything. I talked to one person no less than 4 times before he actually made a call.

I've gone up the ladder even and the managers seem lackadaisical. (Fire them all.) Throwing money at them doesn't help as either they are hourly or salaried. Find the person that works on commission and you get better answers.

[reed 500]

Paul, what are some other manufacturers of the pads? What is the material actually made of or what type material is it? Is it steel wool or a microfibered product?

Reed

[Dale 16]

Yeah..I'm a bit disappointed too...prepaid $150. order 4+ months ago.. and nothing but charge to my card.....I don't know if this is makes any sense..but can you buy 9" blanks?? and just X the center??..it all just sort of squishes together anyway...if you can catch a couple of threads you should be good to go..no??...I just tried it with an old pad and it seems to work just fine...make a 9" template to mark center and ...poof..defelting pad...would blanks be cheaper??

[Dale 16]

...let me guess ..that won't work because they stamp the 9" circle at the same time they stamp the center...oh well just a thought

[Paul B. 523]

Reed,

The material is a Non-Woven Nylon/Polyester Fiber.

Material manufacturers are not difficult to find, but I wouldn't be open (at this point) to discuss and share details that may harm the work Beth or I have done (separately) in trying to establish a primary or back-up source of suppliers. It wouldn't be fair for one person to pay for the tooling and have others reap the benefits without compensation - this is one reason for a primary and secondary supplier. My thought is that Greg had an exclusive arrangement and it sounded like the relationship broke down.

I think it will take in excess of $10K (most likely above $15K) to establish a solid relationship with a supplier that will provide on-demand supply of the product at reasonable rates. It would take a couple of years to recoup the initial investment.

There are several options on approaching the supply/demand issue - one may be of a lower initial investment, but higher price to the customer. There are others that are a bit more complex in structure, but achievable.

I'll say that the key is not finding the material, but getting someone to make the parts exactly as needed - this is a SPECIAL ORDER item.

If Greg's source is still willing to make it on-demand, small quantity runs and at reasonable rates, I'm sure we are going to have pads available soon.

[Paul B. 523]

Dale,

"They stamp the 9" circle at the same time they stamp the center."

That is the most efficient and cost effective manufacturing process and guarantees that the core is concentric to the outside diameter. Having a core punched by the manufacturer is also the least amount of work for the end user.

You can add the core after the fact, but it adds time and money to the cost. With a fixture, you can control the concentricity issue.

You can cut the material with shears or "X" the area of the core, but that is not a long term solution.

[RyanH 14]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's a defelting pad? What is one used for?

:o

Ryan H.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Can a hole saw be used to speed up making your own?

[dk34 14]

"It is with mixed emotions that we are placing DeckGuide.com and the DeckGuide Pro Forums up for sale."

This probably explains some of why you can't get pads from Greg.

[Paul B. 523]

I heard rumors of it a couple of weeks ago and Greg did mention a couple of months ago that they may get out of the selling business this year.

Alan,

Hole saw would not work well on this material.

RyanH,

Defelting pads are used on a high speed buffer to remove furring on decks after stripping. It is much faster than sanding.

Here is a close-up of it:

[Paul B. 523]

Here is one on a DeWalt polisher.

[Paul B. 523]

This is a Makita Polisher that some use.

[RyanH 14]

Paul,

Thanks for the help. Can't these things be bought at janitorial supply stores? One store around me that I use for some of my supplies sell these pads for slow and high speed floor burnishers. Now, I'm sure they are too large for the hand buffers (they are usually from 12" diameter up to about 30" diameter), but they usually have an inner circle that is cut out of them to accommodate the floor buffers securing plate and the diameter of the inner circle is usually in the range of 2" up to around 5". Why not contact the company that makes the pads and ask if you can have or buy their leftovers? Same concept that Krispy kreme had years ago to sell the doughnut "holes."

I can see where it would work very well for the DeWalt polisher.

Perhaps you can send me the dimensions of the product and I can check on Monday and see exactly what is available.

If these <i>can't</i> be used, then they can be made. A company I currently clean for uses a special tool that attatches to a drill and it cuts felt samples. It is designed so that when pressure is applied to the surface of the stuff to be cut, three razor blades drop about to a desired length (usually around 1/2") and cut a perfect circle. I know (from experience) that it would work on the type of material the defelting pads are made from.

Ryan H.

[Dale 16]

Hi Paul,

..you want to sell that one pad??..looks like its in pretty good shape..lol....I just noticed that at the propowerwash site Greg is offering the site, forums, and rights and reciepes for the Timber Pro line of products and the rest is up for bid

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I have cut those pads with scissors many times for my doodle bug, so I see no reason why a good hole saw would not work.

Monday I will give it a whirl on a black or brown pad and see how it turns out.

[Paul B. 523]

Alan,

You can cut the material many different ways.

However, if you want to sell it cost effectively, manual cutting is not the way to go. I wouldn't want to have to cut 2000-3000 of these manually (not even 40-50 at a time).

When you are cutting the black pad on Monday, cut an 8 or 9" diameter pad and add a 5/8" diameter center hole that is concentric with the outside diameter. Think about how many you can cut this way in an hour. Greg's selling price for the pad was $22.50 for qty. 10.

RyanH,

As I said, the material is not hard to find. Cutting a few by hand can be done relatively easy. Getting the manufacturer to do wha t you need cost effectively and in quantities under 10,000 is.

If they do not have a die to cut 5/8 diameter holes, they have to make some (tooling cost is passed on to the purchaser). High production rotary die cutting inserts CAN BE somewhat costly.

Adding the core hole after the fact along with getting the OD and ID concentric increases the cost of the pads dramatically .

The industrial standard for the 9" diameter pad is a 2-3/4" core, anything else is SPECIAL order. The dimensions for the pad are: 9" OD, 3/4" thick, with 5/8" ID core.

Dale,

The one in the first photo is actually a brand new (never used) pad. It's the photo quality that is bad. The digital camera I took it with does not have a macro mode. I took the photo a while back to show someone what the texture looked like.