Alkyd Stains

[CCHSNC 14]

Is there anything that will strip this stuff? I have a customer that has WoodPride by ICI paints on their deck. It is an oil/Alkyd base stain, I hit this stuff with HD-80 and it wouldn't budge.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

How long did you let it dwell, and what concentration did you mix it at? HD has removed Alkyds before.... Were you at 8 oz by weight to the gallon, and did it dwell for at least 45 min?

Have you got a link to the manufacturers site by chance?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

http://www.coloryourworld.com/goodideas/goodideasoutdoor1.html

Looks like its an acrylic, not an alkyd. Also appears to be in the piant family, not a true stain. Try a product that has MEK in it. (methyl ethyl ketone)

Extreme Solutions is working on a product to handle this type of job, but it has not been released yet.

Beth

[RyanH 14]

Please please please please......

Be VERY careful with this stuff. It is a light organic and is EXTREMELY volatile. Take care to not let it contact your skin nor enter through respiratory tracts. Also, it would be better to use this type of a product early in the morning or on a cool day, as it will evaporate very quickly at moderate temperatures.

[CCHSNC 14]

Not to start a pissing contest but it is an alkyd base product not a acrylic. They may have some products that are an acrylic base but the one this customer had was an alkyd/oil base. It is product #2710 Series Data Below:

WOODPRIDETM

Exterior Oil

Semi-Transparent Stain 2710-XXXX

Our best semi-transparent penetrating exterior oil stain. WoodPride Semi-Transparent Oil Stain highlights the wood¹s natural grain and texture. Resists cracking, peeling and blistering. Gives a mildew resistant coating. Produces beautiful stain colors that subtly enhance natural wood tones. The water-repellent finish helps protect the wood from moisture damage that can cause wood splitting, cracking or warping. Recommended for above ground use on exterior bare cedar, redwood, pine, fir, pressure-treated wood or other porous wood surfaces. Ideal for use on exterior horizontal or vertical wood siding, T-1-11, clapboards, shingles, shakes, beams, fences, rough sawn lumber or any other porous wood surface. The penetrating oil binder provides a durable finish for all types of exterior wood decking, floors, porches, patios and outdoor wood furniture. Not recommended for interior use, hardboard surfaces, or over any previously painted, sealed or nonporous surface. Color: White, ready-mix & custom colors

Finish: Flat

Clean-up Solvent: Mineral Spirits

Density: 7.5 lbs/gal (0.90 kg/L)

VOC: 4.57 lbs/gal (549 g/L)

Solids: Volume - 30% ± 1%

Weight - 39% ± 1%

Practical Coverage: Apply at 250-350 sq ft/gal (6-9 m2/L) on smooth wood surfaces and at 150-250 sq ft/gal (4-6 m2/L) on rougher wood surfaces. Varies depending on surface condition and wood porosity.

Flash Point: 102°F (39°C)

Dry Time 77°F (25°C) & 50% RH: To touch - 4-6 hours

Shelf Life: 1 year minimum - unopened

• 
  
• Highlights wood's natural grain and texture
  
• Water repellent finish
  
• Penetrates and protects
  
• Provides UV protection
  
• Gives a mildew resistant coating
  
• Performance alternate for Federal Paint Specification TT-S-708A
  

• 
  
• Alkyd Resin
  
• Pigmentation varies with color.
  
• Not manufactured with lead or mercury containing materials.
  

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

What was that top bullet above alkyd resin? HD-80 loves alkyd resins - that's why it eats Sikkens Cetol DEK so well. What else is in this stuff? Also what was the temp like outdoors when you were using the HD? That too can play a role because is will not work well in cold temps.

[Cleveland Mobile 14]

Here's what works for me in that situation. When I view a customers deck and he either tells me or its obvious that he used something that is impossible to strip.....I wash and reseal with the same sealer.

Andy

[James 625]

I carry a couple of different strippers. And I always do test spots.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Robert, can you post a pic?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ok... I went up and downloaded the MSDS sheet for this product. Based upon the ingredients listed in the MSDS sheet the HD-80 should do the trick, provided there is no silicone or laytex in the product that is not listed.

Here are some guidelines if you do plan to attack it again with HD:

1. attack a test spot.

2. make sure it's more than 50 degrees outside (factor for wind too) when you are working with it. It much less effective in cold temps, and for an alkyd warmer is better.

3. you need a longer dwell time per coat on an alkyd. Its OK to let dwell up to 45 min per layer.

4. keep wet with more HD as you work. Don't let it dry. This deactivates it.

5. you might try massaging it with a brush as you work on it.

6. when you rinse, hit it with your 25 tip at about 6 inces quickly if it seems intact. If it peels off in a strip it did have something else in it.

7. appearance sometimes changes when HD meets acrylics so just in case any is in there look for a subtle color change in the color of the product...it may take on a milkier look. If you see that, it's a good thing. Be patient, apply more, and dwell a long time.

8. Rod always scratches at the surface to see if he can determine if the bond is breaking. That might also help you.

If you did all of these things to begin with, then I would have to wonder if the product contains either acrylic in some amount or latex in some amount even if not listed. If you try MEK on it and it takes it, then my suspicion would be it had some in it. Bix is a product that has MEK in it. Be very careful if you use that.

This really has me wracking my brain.....if I think of anything else I'll post it. I sure hope this helps you out.

Call Rod on his cell if you need to.

Beth

[CCHSNC 14]

I usually do a test spot when I go out on estimates but took a diferent vehicle on this one and didn't have any stripper.

Beth, There must be something undisclosed in the product lit. because I hit this deck with everything I had. I did all the stuff you suggested and nothing would work. It made me so frustrated that I even tried just blsating it with full pressure and still nothing.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I spoke to Russ at Extreme Solutions today too. Basically he's fairly certain you are facing an alkyd product with acrylic in it. This also explains what I saw online. Calling something an alkyd is only speaking to the oil that's there. MSDS sheets only have to disclose hazardous ingredients. Alkyds qualify. If the clean up instructions had read soap and water rather than mineral spirits you would be looking at a laytex. But based upon what was and was not on the MSDS and the way the HD reacted, you most likely have an acrylic in the alkyd. Ask the manufacturer what will take it off. Our best suggestion is a MEK product, which means BIX or similar.

Sure wish I had better news. If you test with MEK and it comes off you'll know for sure.

Beth

[One Call Power Wash 500]

Be carelful with MEK. Wear gloves and face shield. You dont want to get this stuff on hands or eyes, especially eys.

[Aplus 525]

Lighter fluid and a match is the easiest way to deal with it.

Seriously, I pass on taking jobs if I know I can't strip it completely, unless the customer is willing to recoat with a solid.