Any Ideas what went wrong???

[k2waterwerx 14]

I stripped off the old sealer for a customer using HD-80. Neutrilized with citralic. Done it the same way I always have and never had a problem. Sealed the deck with WoodTux "Brown Sugar". It ended up with these "Black/Blue" patches on it. The pictures are of poor quality but I think they are good enough to get the idea. Any suggestions????

[k2waterwerx 14]

The wand marks are from the home owner in the first picture.

[814jeffw 71]

I'm not a full time wood guy, but my first guess would be furring. And the furring took the stain darker. Did you have furring at all? Just guessing mind you.

Jeff

[RPetry 564]

Keith,

You did not prep the wood right. No decent stain, even Behr's or Thompson's, should look like that on wood.

My guess would be silicone prior. Strip and sand 'till your hand falls off.

[plainpainter 217]

OMG - that looks utterly awful! Get some butyl and mix a pint of it with a gallon of HD-80 mix at Full throttle strength - and add some NP-9 surfactant - and bomb the freak out of that deck! Then lay some serious bleach on it mixed with TSP, to counteract the 'whitening' of bleach, and some NP-9 - rinse rinse rinse - then throw on oxalic, then post some pics of it dry before staining. I've had crap come up before after laying down some stain - happened to be where their grill was dropping grease onto the wood all the time, but that was just one spot. You could alternatively mix oxalic super strong like 9 ozs./gallon and throw it on the bleach application without rinsing the bleach - kind of like reverse 2-stepping, and after a thorough dwell - with all wood brightened - rinse rinse rinse - and follow up with a much more dilute oxalic/citralic just to be safe. Post some pics before staining.

[plainpainter 217]

I gave you a remedy in the last post, as to why this happened. You used Russell's wtw product which is compatible with a 'wet' deck. I think - and this happened to me in limited circumstances - that there were some really nasty water soluable extractives in that wood, and by applying the woodtux to it - if the wood was not perfectly dry - forced the moisture with these extractives to the surface. Perhaps a copper like substance like copper sulfate reacted with the HD-80, and the citralic sequestered the resultant away - leaving a nicely cleaned deck. But if you applied the stain while still moist - some of this remnant that was deeper below the surface could get pushed back up by the application of the stain.

[James 625]

Looks like you didn't remove all the severe mold that still on the Deck ?

[k2waterwerx 14]

It did not have any mold on it. The deck gets sun 90% of the day. However the ground around it was very wet. I think from the neighbors sump pump or something like it. I waited 4 days before I sealed it and it looked just like any other stripped deck. Since the deck is only 2-3 ft. off the ground maybe that is the problem???? I am going to go look at it tomorrow and see what it looks like. I will post more pics. Thanks for the responses. I will let you know.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Since the first pic shows the customers error with the wand as being lighter/cleaner it pretty much tells me that this deck needed stripping down deeper to the point of not being able to see the tint/shade difference. We should only be able to see those marks as a texture/slash gouge. I assume you kept pressure proper but stripper strength was improper or it failed and therefore some the dead gray and grunge remained...Is it possable while cleaning that it was a drastic difference but when ya hit it with acid it did not pop a bright look as usual?. Was it really light shade when dry?

ps- Sometimes my notebook pic renditions are questionable so I went ahead and hooked up to the big screen. The second pic didn't look as bad as my first impression told me. Maybe a little bleach needed and a different finish. what ya say was used on it?

Edited May 28, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Welcome the world of Wood Forensics 101.

Looks to me like remnants of the previous product in the wood affecting the applied finish. Some products have components which do not easily strip by conventional means. Products which contain silicone and teflon can leave behind their constituents that react badly to different products other than themselves giving your the result you are seeing.

You may need to strip it all back to bare wood again making sure you get what is below the surface. This will cause the wood to fuzz up a bit but in the end you will have a better result.

Rod!~

Edited May 27, 2008 by Beth n Rod
further elaboration

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Strip.

SAND.

Seal.

Beth

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Strip.

SAND.

Seal.

Beth

sand...sand... sand some more... then seal,

Do a test area in one of the bad spots with stain before you lay stain down on the whole deck.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Good idea.

Remember to counter sink all the nails before sanding.

Beth

sand...sand... sand some more... then seal,

Do a test area in one of the bad spots with stain before you lay stain down on the whole deck.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Hows about throwin some current figures for countersinking and sanding?..

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hows about throwin some current figures for countersinking and sanding?..

Go right ahead ;)

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Go right ahead ;)

Beth

Hah! Beth, that is hilarious, you do have a sense of humor!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hah! Beth, that is hilarious, you do have a sense of humor!

Of course I do ;)

Just don't let it get around... :lol:

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Of course I do ;)

Just don't let it get around... :lol:

Beth

Well, since you are so footloose and fancy free tonight, did I ever tell you the one about that wood stain manufacturer that ...

Ah, never mind. Someone else may read this....

Anyway, is there any possibility of permanently erasing my 5 point infraction of over a year ago? Geeze, Beth, its a blemish on an otherwise stellar record of service. Kind of think the Judge of Wood may look slant eyed the next time in court. Have mercy, I did try WT twice.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Infractions went away looooong ago. ;)

You're good to go!

Beth :groovy3:

[RPetry 564]

Infractions went away looooong ago. ;)

You're good to go!

Beth :groovy3:

Does this mean that Ken and I can have fun again? Still have that nasty red mark and thread in my profile, it has been over a year. My last parole officer was easier than TGS.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I don't see the mark you are talking about.

Enjoy!

You have rain cabin fever don't you.....

Beth

[RPetry 564]

I don't see the mark you are talking about.

Enjoy!

You have rain cabin fever don't you.....

Beth

Hah! Yeah, the schedule is kind of on hold right now. Terrific April, lost one day to rain. The 2nd half of May has been tough. Weather is catching up to normal.

Got a 10 gal. shipment of A-C delivered tonight from Calif. Have a cedar job rarin' to go. Can't wait to try it, the sample brush outs look good. Something new. And maybe good. Call Jake.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

I don't get you Rick...you do know that if it goes well as far as things like ease of use, cleanup, or is asthetically pleasing,etc., and you decide to go head long with it that it may very well be more durable and last longer than your current business model allows for? ..Who was it that said something about not using it on customer jobs as it untested or whatever? That wasn't you was it?

Hurry up and get that job done!. I want pics and feedback for the semi-trans cedar. Have a job about ready for it and but that one color on my sample chain seems a tad muddy on the grain...Maybe I got it dirty on accident or maybe a darker color sample been rubbed into it.

ps- oh it was you that said that:

"I may be getting old and conservative, but my co. will not use customer jobs as a product testing ground."

Is this job your gonna do a customer? Quik change there Rick if so.

The open mindedness is refreshing. Save some stain for me please.

Edited May 28, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[RPetry 564]

Kevin,

Someone else I know and trust has done the testing for me. Not only on now over 20 jobs, but in the lab. Review the posts on:

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/12698-2008-sealer-poll-5.html

This cedar customer is well informed and advised of this "new" stain. And thrilled, the stain costs will not be billed.

[jeffex11 121]

LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE HOMEOWNER stained over a heavily molded deck and you've uncovered it. treat it like a moldy roof and use applesauce or bleach it . I used outdoor bleach on siding and moldy floors on decks and it does the work with dwell time.

[k2waterwerx 14]

Thanks everyone. If the rain would stop so it could dry I can better assess the current strip. I will post the completed findings.