Legacy wood...what is it?

[RPetry 564]

Old house. Deck has been documented to be between 35 and 50 years old. No one is sure, but the wood does not have any remnants of stain. In NJ, nothing lasts this long without care aside from old growth.

Certainly a softwood. Note the endgrain deterioration on the edge of the stairs. Endgrain off foot traffic looks like it has just been cut.

Moss, mold, and mildew. Not splintered, a few knots out but few. True 2" x 8" deck boards, not dimensional lumber.

Quickly cleaned a spot on 2 deck boards with NaOH and rinsed. Hit with citric but still wet when I left.

Note the pic of the post in the ground. Boards are nailed, but after all this time nails have not "popped"!

Any ideas? My first guess is old growth redwood, due to the grain on the "cleaned" picture. But does old redwood have knots?

2nd guess would be old growth cedar, either red or white.

Do not know of any other softwood that could last this long in this climate.

Woodies, especially you West coasters, help me out! Thanks.

[RPetry 564]

"Post in the ground" picture. Nice.

[RPetry 564]

Quick clean picture. Still wet and not yet brightened.

[James 625]

Looks like The RED WOOD I take care of and it has a long LegAcy ?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Looks like redwood to me.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Beth & Jim,

Thanks. My first guess also. But does redwood have tight knots? I do recall seeing old redwoods in Northern California 30 years ago. Seem to remember very tall, straight tree trunks, with no branching, until the top canopy.

Need help, west coast woodies!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yes, Redwood does have knots, like any wood, depends on the grade.

Need help with what specifically?

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

Rod,

Ok, thanks. I just want to correctly ID the species of wood. Will probably meet with the owner today.

If we get the job, there are some rotted endgrain step treads that we will trim off. I'll send a sample to FPL for positive identification.

[fireandrain 39]

Rick,

Looks like redwood to me. Thats all I see out here in No. Calif. All sorts of redwood out here, old and new. Surprised to see it out your way, but my .02 is redwood, Rick. It will look fabulous when you get through with it!

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

You West coast guys are the friggin' cat's meow. You guys do know your redwood. Those of us on the East coast can always help you with pressure treated Southern Yellow Pine!

Stopped by today, and put just a drop of RS on the dried wood. Immediately turned black. Seen this once before with old redwood, I am convinced. The paraffinic oil just pushes the natural resins/oil to the surface in a heartbeat.

Yeah, it is nearly certainly redwood. Got a call this morning from a Western contractor, an old salt, that thinks it may not be just old growth redwood, but old growth redwood that is all heartwood!

Holy smokes, this kind of wood is unheard of here in the East.

Peirce Fitchette of Ready Seal emailed a link that is further indicative. Look at: OGA - Lumber

Thanks Peirce.

A few pics of the dried wood attached. If anyone has differing opinions, please post. Now it is off to find 2 matching boards of the same wood for replacement. One is 2"x12"x12 feet!

Even the joists and stringers are redwood. This is an old, very old deck.

Gotta' love the wood business. Feel like a history detective on PBS! Thanks to all.

A few more pics attached.

Edited July 9, 2008 by RPetry

[fireandrain 39]

Wish I saw more PT and cedar out here,Rick, I'd be tapping your brain daily! Never seen a PT deck out here, did a cedar last year, behaved well. Possibly heartwood on that one, certainly old growth,though. The heart I see out here is close to knot-free and ridiculously expensive. Suppose thats a good thing. I'd prefer to still be able to walk in an old growth redwood forest, not much of it left out here. People who visit Northern California are always raving about the redwood forests of the north coast, leave believing theres still alot of it up there. Not true. Most of the old growth in Northern Cal. is limted to the 'beauty strips" the logging co's have been so kind to leave bordering all of the major tourist highways up there. Dont get me started. Our redwood forests were VERY poorly managed in the last 100 yrs. Having said that, I enjoy living in a 10 yr. old Victorian framed in full dimensional 2x3 redwood! If I'm ever cursed with a house fire here, I imagine the only thing standing will be my old redwood framing... Have fun with that one,Rick. I imagine you are gong to be working with RS Redwood Only formula? Does the trick with respect to preventing the redwood from going black on you.

[RPetry 564]

Wish I saw more PT and cedar out here,Rick, I'd be tapping your brain daily! Never seen a PT deck out here, did a cedar last year, behaved well.

Matt, I guess we are kind of lucky back here in the East. Bread and butter work is PT SYP and to a lesser extent, Western Red Cedar. Have been working on quite a bit of red mahogany over the past few years, along with a sprinkling of ipe', teak furniture, various maranti's, and "who knows" Asian hardwoods. Quite a bit of variety.

Possibly heartwood on that one, certainly old growth,though. The heart I see out here is close to knot-free and ridiculously expensive. Suppose thats a good thing.

I am going to call that website that Peirce linked later today. They may be able to supply a few replacement boards and with pictures, help further identify the approximate age and origin of the redwood.

Met with the owner yesterday, and we have the job. There is a possiblity that this deck was built in the 1920's! I have to admit that this job has got me real excited. In 8 years, only worked on one old growth redwood deck and it is a beautiful wood.

I'd prefer to still be able to walk in an old growth redwood forest, not much of it left out here. People who visit Northern California are always raving about the redwood forests of the north coast, leave believing theres still alot of it up there. Not true. Most of the old growth in Northern Cal. is limted to the 'beauty strips" the logging co's have been so kind to leave bordering all of the major tourist highways up there. Dont get me started. Our redwood forests were VERY poorly managed in the last 100 yrs.

In general, America's natural resources have been poorly managed in the past. It was the old "gold rush, make a quick buck, conqueror the continent" mentality. But I think that has evolved, and is slowly changing for the better.

Having said that, I enjoy living in a 10 yr. old Victorian framed in full dimensional 2x3 redwood! If I'm ever cursed with a house fire here, I imagine the only thing standing will be my old redwood framing...

Did not know redwood was fire resistant. Sounds like you have a real nice home!

Have fun with that one,Rick. I imagine you are gong to be working with RS Redwood Only formula? Does the trick with respect to preventing the redwood from going black on you.

Having fun already and am really looking forward to restoring this "antique" deck. Scheduled for mid to late August. I'm not sure what product we will use for stain. Probably wait and see how the wood cleans up.

The Ready Seal redwood only formula does work great, and looks good. But redwood is a Northwest US indigenous tree, and Armstrong-Clark is company located in the heart of the Sierra Nevada range. Might be appropriate, we'll see.

Thanks for your help and input Matt.

[fireandrain 39]

Now I've seen some pretty old and raqgged redwood decks in my time, but never seen a 90 yr. old redwood deck attached to it's joists with finish nails! Is that whole deck tied down with those fin. nails pictured,Rick? Honestly though, Ive come across a few old heartwood redwood decks that look pretty similar in condition to your new play thing,Rick. Usually date back 30 yrs. or so. Redwood can really look beat if neglected, but comes right back with talents like yours,Rick. have fun!

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

Yeah, noticed those finish nails. The ends are fastened with what looks like 16 penny nails. What is amazing is that no nails, finish or otherwise, are popped or loose.

Talk about a stable wood! The current owner has been in the home for ~ 5 years and has not touched the deck. Says it "looks about the same" as when she moved in.

[weaselcossey 14]

Matt,

Yeah, noticed those finish nails. The ends are fastened with what looks like 16 penny nails. What is amazing is that no nails, finish or otherwise, are popped or loose.

Talk about a stable wood! The current owner has been in the home for ~ 5 years and has not touched the deck. Says it "looks about the same" as when she moved in.

Must be some type of swirled or ring shank nails for absolutely none to be popped out. We use the 4" swirled nails repairing docks. Nearly everything here is SYP. I've completely redecked a couple of docks, and have never had a problem with those nails working loose. I'm sure you know how the moist pressure-treated SYP acts when it dries. Considering the constant moving side to side, up and down in the water, and constant moisture from underneath the dock and condensation, its pretty amazing how well a good nail will hold in stable wood.

The finish nails just blow my mind. That lumber must have been dried very well, and straight as an arrow.

[RPetry 564]

I love my customers. Part of an email concerning this job.

______________________

Rick, your work looks great, and the fact that you get written about in trade magazines suggests that you're highly respected by other people in the deck restoration business.

So I'm very comfortable with you working on my deck. In fact, I feel very lucky to have found you through such indirect means. Without the first contractor mentioning in passing that I had very old wood, and without the subsequent conversation with the guy who mentioned your company, I'd never have found you or even thought to do a restoration. It's almost like that deck was meant for you -- was waiting all these50 long years for you to happen along.

I'm thinking that maybe the guy who gave me your name saw the article about your work in that trade journal? I should call and thank him.

In any event, your estimate seems very reasonable and I'd have no problem making payment in any form you want. My daughter is at an overnight camp in ********doing 2-week sessions for the rest of the summer, so I'm down there alternate Friday afternoons to pick her up, then the following Sunday to drop her off again. If the *********** people do find a board for the step, maybe I could strap it to the top of my Honda CRV and save on delivery charges. I'm thinking that the other board(s) will be shorter and can fit inside the cab.

So you and Judy go and have yourselves a blast on your trip. Knowing you even as little as I do, I'm guessing you'll be dreaming about this deck at least once before you get back.

Wish I had that much passion about my work. Used to. Still do, sometimes. But not like you.

I'll talk to you sometime before Aug. 23, when I'll be heading up to Maine with my girl for about 10 days.

Until then, take care, and thanks for loving my deck, probably even more than I do!

__________

It is customers, good, decent customers, that make this business so worthwhile.

Edited July 10, 2008 by RPetry
punctuation

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Again, more cool stuff from Rick!!! :dancing:

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Beth,

It is all about people, relationships, straight in the eye advice and help. You, more than most know that.

Customers are all I have. If I am not straight, forthright, honest, and sincere with them, my business is doomed. This is residential work, not some publicly traded corp. This is not pressure washing, it is wood care. Big difference.

For good customers, it is not about money. It is about who you are. And trust. Too many contractors burn the bridge before it is built.

We are fortunate to be in a good region, and choose those that we want to do business with. Either lucky or fortunate, this can be a good business in many aspects.

See 'ya in a week, we are out of here!

[RPetry 564]

In 8 years of business, this job was by far the most interesting and satisfying project.

An old growth redwood deck, very unusual here in NJ, and documented by neighbors to be at least 50 yrs. old. Had not been maintained for many years, possibly decades. As can be seen from the attached photos, mold, severe mildew, and even moss covered the wood.

Some of the wood was rotted. One small deck board, as well as a 2"x12"x12' bottom step tread had to be replaced. In addition, the end grain of the step treads, as well as the top deck boards facing the stairs, was rotted.

This end grain wood was cut back and sanded. A 2"x2" redwood sill was fabricated and installed with stainless steel screws.

The stair stringers, full fascia, and all undercarriage joists, were all fabricated from old growth redwood. Even the posts are made from heartwood redwood tree trunks!

[RPetry 564]

After carpentry work and replacing the rotted wood, the deck was cleaned. Two separate sodium percarbonate cleanings were required to remove all the built up dirt, mold, and mildew.

Ready Seal's #80 brightener was then applied to the wood. This is a mix of various acids, designed to keep tannins in check. A bit expensive but well worth it for this job.

After the acid dried, took a good long look at the wood. Much of the original wood surface was rough, as weathering over the years had, not quite sure how to describe it, "delaminated" some of the top surfaces of many of the redwood deck boards. There is a close up pic of this near the beginning of this thread.

A tough call, as tannins in redwood, especially old growth wood, are notorious for "blotching" the appearance of stain, but decided to belt sand the entire deck surface. Once the sanding was completed, again applied RS #80 to the redwood to keep the tannins in check. Worked perfectly.

[RPetry 564]

Two separate applications of Ready Seal redwood only stain, medium red color, was applied on subsequent days. Initially, even with the #80 brightener, the stain looked quite dark. But after a few hours the color lightened up to normal. The #80 acid did its job, as the finish was even, without the dreaded blotchy look so prevalent in tannin rich woods, particularly western red cedar, after a hard sanding.

The customer was thrilled, just overwhelmed at the finished job. So am I. With regular 2 yr. maintenance, there is no reason why this old growth redwood deck cannot last another 50 yrs.

First I want to thank the unknown deck builder, that my customer originally called, who recognized that intact wood 50 yrs. old was something special, and recommended that the customer call my company for an evaluation. My customer originally thought the deck had to be torn down and replaced. She had already gotten 2 quotes for a new pressure treated SYP deck before she called us.

Thanks also to Peirce Fitchett, the national sales manager of Ready Seal, for coming up and helping on this unique job. Thats Peirce in the previous post sanding!

Thanks also to Raul Hernadez of Forever Redwood in California, for the fine old growth redwood replacement boards.

Unique, challenging, and unusual jobs like this are what make wood restoration fun and interesting. Can't wait for the next one!

[fireandrain 39]

Rick,

What a gratifying restoration job! You did a fantastic job with that old beauty. I love those all horizontal OG redwood projects. OG redwood on the east coast, just blows my mind. As most are aware of, Redwood constitutes 95% of all the work we see out here in No.California. Of that, maybe 15% exceeds 30 years in age. The issue of tannins is certainly a challenge,esp. after sanding regiment. Helluva job,Rick!

[James 625]

Rick, I found out what and who "Legacy Wood" is !! A Porno Star going strong at the ripe old age of 75 ! Also known as " Loggy Sequoia"..........LOL

Rick, that was a fun job to hear about! Now it's time to go into hibernation...and dream about the adventures of "Loggy".

[RPetry 564]

Jim,

Adventures with "Loggy" will have to wait for another month. After that, it's 5 months of vacation!