IPE Deck w/ Failing Penofin. Any Ideas?

[fireandrain 39]

I looked at a 3 year old IPE deck and fence project today. Stained with "clear" Penofin in 2007. Deck boards are faded and blotchy and the horizontal fence boards failing as well (see pictures). Clients are pretty serious about making sure that whatever I seal their IPE with, will still be looking good after one year. I told them to expect a maintenance every 2 years on this deck. They claimed that the contractor that built the deck used a Clear Penofin finish. I have not worked with IPE before, does that info ring true based on my pictures? I’m going to need to strip this old Penofin off (duh…) and am concerned about how this IPE will take my stripping. I’m figuring that I will need to build in de-furring/sanding on this project. These folks really want their deck to look spectacular and be assured that it will STILL be looking great in a years time. Any suggestions on what sealer will satisfy these homeowners with respect to allowing the IPE to express it’s true beauty? I’ve been using RS exclusively, not sure if this will suffice on IPE. Appreciate any advice on this one as I have NEVER worked with IPE and am concerned about how it will behave.

[Celeste 341]

First, you shouldn't guarantee 1 year on ipe, much less 2. The penofin should come off easily with a quality stripper. Defurring, if necessary, with defelting pads. I'm not going to start at debate about the stain. We know what works for us and for how long but you're in CA and we're in NC. Different altogether.

[bigchaz 157]

That is one goofy looking wall

I don't even guarantee that my PT decks will look "great in a years time". No way in heck you're going to get that kind of longevity on IPE

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

Ipe' is a whole new ballgame. For staining, aside from teak, and other closely related exotic hardwoods, there is nothing like it.

You stated:

Clients are pretty serious about making sure that whatever I seal their IPE with, will still be looking good after one year. I told them to expect a maintenance every 2 years on this deck.

I do not know the typical stain performance in Ca., but here on the East Coast people are doing well to get a full year of stain life on an ipe' deck before a maintenance is due. You may get 2 yrs. on the fence, but I would not guarantee it.

Through experience with my own ipe' deck and those of customers, I am convinced of one thing. The best thing an owner can do with an ipe' deck is to strip, brighten, and just let it weather for a full year. Once the natural extractives near the surface of the wood are leached out by precipitation, and/or burned out by the sun's UV, a good stain has a chance of lasting a year before maintenance. Same thing with teak furniture.

I've got two brushed in apps of RS med. red on my ipe' now that was applied in April of 2007. It is getting spotty and definitely needs a maintenance. But this was done after a year of weathering. Otherwise, there would be no way my ipe' could ever take two apps. of RS. It is extremely dense, naturally oily wood.

Just wait 'till you strip it. The rinse water looks like blood.

[fireandrain 39]

No way in heck you're going to get that kind of longevity on IPE

Thanks Charles. I guess I really blew it in my initital mtg. w/ these folks! Now I'll just have to figure out how to put build my proposal AFTER assuring (in our initial discussion) that, with the right seal, the deck should look good after a year. Whooops! Hmmmm. Maybe I should build into the quote a 1 year guarantee, fully expecting that I will need to do a "free" maintenace cleaning/re-seal a year from now... Not the way I like to do business, but after telling them that they will be OK in a year, not sure what my other options are... Its going to look a bit fuzzy to these folks after my initial consulatation... Guess I have nothing to lose. Just build into the price next years maintenance.

[fireandrain 39]

Thanks Rick. I remember you saying that you had an IPE yourself. Man, I really wish I had done more research before my initial consultation with IPE owners! These folks seem plenty prepared to pay for tip top service, now I'll just have to figure out how to "re-package" my proposal to them. I have not sent a proposal to them yet, but I talked a big game with respect to longevity (1 year minimum) on staining. Big time rookie mistake. Like I said above, perhaps I can tell them that I've been re-thinking their IPE situation and am concerned about promising that the wood will stay looking its best a year down the line. Rather, propose a strip/brighten/de-furr this time around,seal with RS, and build in a maintenance guarantee through next year. So, when they call next year to complain that their deck and fence are fading, they know that that I will re-visit their IPE w/ a free-of-charge clean/re-seal. Does this make sense? I hate doing things all fishy and fuzzy like this, not how I like to do business, but I made a pretty good impression on these homeowners when we met, and I can't really back-out on a providing them with a proposal...at least.

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

One more thing. If bidding the job, make sure you include time to 3M pad Makita buff, or light 60 grit sanding over the ipe'. With ipe', even a percarb cleaning on bare wood leaves tiny little hairs, similar to the dreaded fuzzies. Without removal, many stains will look blotchy. Properly done, ipe' can look like fine furniture, if only for a few months!

I always pull this picture out, it is one of my favorites with a long, but kind of sad story. The old WoodZotic mix, which is 50/50 brown sugar/western cedar WoodTux mix on ipe' done in August of last year.

Stopped by and looked at it this past April. Very little stain left on the floor, but the vertical wood was in decent condition. I know the history of this deck. Stained with Messmers immediately after construction and then with WoodTux 8 months later. Lack of stain lifetime is not a WoodTux problem, it is the nature of the wood and a customer problem.

Sometimes customers will just not listen. Advised to let it weather, but the owner just had to have it look like a million bucks, after spending 60K having it built. IMO, he wasted over 2K in staining costs.

[bigchaz 157]

Matt maybe a solution would be to explain that you will get one year out of the initial stain but that your price includes a free recoat in one year.

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

I would be totally upfront and honest with the customer. Explain that ipe' is rare in your area and you are unfamiliar with the wood. But you made an effort to consult with other wood contractors around the US that do work on ipe', and your recommendations are ....

I did this a few times when just starting out and good customers appreciate the honesty.

Try to find out the exact history of the wood. If never weathered, I would try and sell a strip, neutralize, and contract to come back next year to clean, neutralize, buff and stain.

Ipe' looks ok weathered, it degrades to a silver patina look. And honestly, in my experience, any good stain on ipe' will last a lot longer when the wood has naturally weathered for a year.

Oh, one more thing. Forget about the normal sales pitch about protecting the wood. Ipe' is so dense and durable, that deck and fence will last late into your grandchildren's lifetime without one cleaning or ever seeing a stain.

Edited July 25, 2008 by RPetry
addition

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Penofin can be a pain to strip and furthermore, it can leave behind some ingredients which fills in the pores and keeps it from absorbing another product.

I recommend that once it is stripped the wood should be allowed to weather for a few months, wash it to remove the grey and then apply a finish.

my .02

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

Holy Smokes Matt,

I just took another look at your pictures. Is that last one of the wall actually built of 6 x 6 ipe' stock? Sure looks like it. If so, that one wall cost a fortune in material costs. These people spent some serious cabbage on their ipe'.

And tell the customer to trash that crappy looking PT under the bench in the first picture. Talk about bad design and ruining the look of great wood...

[bigchaz 157]

what are those ridiculous rocks sitting on the deck?

[fireandrain 39]

These people spent some serious cabbage on their ipe'.

They sure did Rick! This house is featured in some high end home magazines as well. I would estimate the property around $3-4 million. That's what pro football will buy you. Cant' mention any names, but lets just say that the man of the house is the LAST guy on earth I would want to dissappoint...

[fireandrain 39]

what are those ridiculous rocks sitting on the deck?

They are some sort of modern sculpture chairs. You should see the garage door on this house! Stainless steel! Insane.

[James 625]

With Ipe it's very simple. T he Best it will loook is when you finish it and then turn the timer on. Because when you get the check it has already started to degrade !!

[fireandrain 39]

With Ipe it's very simple. T he Best it will loook is when you finish it and then turn the timer on. Because when you get the check it has already started to degrade !!

Good Times! I really dug a hole with myself on this one.