Need help with a pavilion type structure

[Ron G. 14]

Hoping some of you Woody’s can help me out here. I don’t have many wood resto’s under my belt and I need to submit a bid on this structure.

The foot print is 30x60, the wood measured out just under 3k sq. ft. I will be just cleaning and neutralizing.

The wood appears to be eastern white pine, tongue and grove. Never been treated.

My experiences in the past with this type of wood is that it furs like crazy. I would like to avoid this as much as possible.

Can you please advise me on proper chems. / process. I’m thinking maybe percarb or light bleach, yes, no?

I have used EFC-38 in the past on a cedar shake resto, I worked great.

Thanks, Ron.

A couple pics.

[James 624]

Acetone- Is the Rhythmic sound of flatulence !

[Ron G. 14]

Completed this job on Thursday. Some before & afters.

[Ron G. 14]

After cleaning I discovered that, yes it had been previously treated. However, after cleaning, very little sealer remained (see after pics). What did remain seemed to blend nicely.

This series of pics shows an area of staining that I attempted to lighten with acetone. Did not seem to make much of a diff.

Once again, thanks to all for your help & encouragement.

[James 624]

Ron , in one of your photo's I could tell it was treated ( close up- bright area between boards). Thats why I asked ( other board PT State)? I also could tell by they way the mold or mildew was formed on the wood ( very uniform). After years of experience with failed finishes and people telling me there was nothing on the wood and becoming a skeptic in these situations. Also understanding how a finish degrades overtime and how mold develops. Bare wood and wood with a failed finish look different but similar. This will take a couple of years to discern and with testing. Always do testing !!!!

In wood care it difficult to run into the same problem twice. Every experience makes you work smarter the next time!! Overheads are completely different !

Yesterday while doing a cedar garage door restoration I was asked to take a look at the Mahogany deck ( I take care of many in the development). I was told there was nothing on the deck ? I have fixed most of the problem decks in the development and they were brutal but did not do this one. They told me ATO was put on two years ago but lasted 6 months. What I new was 6 years ago Sikkens was used or ATO and maybe some Marine Stuff and all done a few times !!!!. So I already new the ATO was put on over the crap ( not preped correctly). From what I can tell the wood is encased in a Hardcase of Grey Built Proof Armor !!!!

Too anyone else it looks like grey wood ( no finish). This is a development where Rep's from Cabot's and Sikkens were brought in to solve problems and did not. This is a very very very very difficult fix. Stripping and Mechanical means is the answer but what a pain the Donkey!!

In the last couple of days I have received request to do jobs just by Reputation to solve the problem. All of them others have failed terribly and have caused damage or just left the job defeated. The amusing part is I had a solution already in my mind and with in 5 minutes of viewing the problems I had a fix !

I don't say this in impress people but to impress upon them to know there craft. Understand every situation has a solution. Sometimes it is walking away. Be up front if you don't know ! This is very important and you will gain respect. Study all aspects of your craft. This only comes with experiencing many situations and the patience to investigate and solve problems. With success the calls and referrals will be Very High Caliber. Your sold before you call or see the job ????

[RPetry 564]

... Study all aspects of your craft. This only comes with experiencing many situations and the patience to investigate and solve problems. With success the calls and referrals will be Very High Caliber. Your sold before you call or see the job ????

Very true words. Create a deserved reputation over time and three things seem to happen. First, the type of customer and jobs are in the higher dollar range. Second, those customers tend to provide more and better referrals to other high end customers. Third, you will become more involved in interesting work with exotic woods and challenging restorations.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Is concerning that customers see fellow deck owner go through trial and error to fix a problem.

Challenges keep us on our toes and can be looked forward to by some but I know all too well that customers do not at all like to consider their projects as a challenge. They know they could loose their wallets. Yea perhaps they end up submitting that things are gonna cost and they gonna loose their wallets anyway they go but these days they have a supposed easier out from all the stress of wood care. In steps the ugly composite decking industry as super hero and that irritates me.

Yup money solves most challenges and they know it.. That's if they got the dollars that is and like the look of the stuff that is.

But anyways am just saying it doesn't reflect well on the industry if we affirm to customers or show them through our work that wood care is a challenge sometimes not overcome. Never start a job ya can't finish.

[fireandrain 39]

As always, wise words from Rick and Jim. Anyone new to exterior wood restoration should copy those two posts from Rick and Jim, paste them into a word document, enlarge the font to 36, and tack them on the dashboard of their truck!

Along similar lines, I just completed the most challanging strip of my life last week. I threaded this a couple weeks back, a split level suspended deck with no access save a very tall ladder or somewhat disruptive interior through-house access, Ipe deck with 2 failing coats of exterior urethane finish. To boot, 400 3/4" copper tubing spindles that the client wanted to restore to pristine (shined). Certainly qualified as my first "should I walk away from this one" experience of the season. Went like this...

1. Drove up, saw the deck from the driveway suspended forty feet up the back side of the house. Could see the shine of the urethane from 20 yds. away. Gulp....

2. Consulted with the homeowner for an hour and a half. Walked away from our discussion feeling like I had adequately prepared her for the big numbers that would be forthcoming in my project proposal. She said that she had met with 4 previous contractors that week, but that my suggestions on the most effective course of action with her deck seemed,by far, the most informed and educated. (Thanks TGS!)

3. Got home, couple night up late researching stripping strategies ( I had NEVER seen this urethane on Ipe before). Had more than one professional on from this board point me in the direction of a particular chemical that had a strong chance of succeeding in removing this nasty finish. Spent a few hours on the phone talking with three different chem distributors.

4. Crunched my numbers, all along realizing that the homeowner was, as Jim put it, "already sold on me" before she received my proposal. Built in a fair amount of room for unanticipated PITA angles, faxed it to her.

5. She called 20 minutes later to accept and we were in contract 5 minutes later. Ordered recommended chems.

6. Went in production. I expected the strip to be a challenge, and it was! More stress than usual as I was using chems that I was unfamiliar with...

I am familiar with them now.

Bottom line though, the homeowner, who, as I speak, is having a party with a live band and 60 guests at her house this evening, said to me that "this is how I imagined the deck to look after it was built 4 years ago! I can see the wood finally! Wonderful job!". Naturally, this really made my day. To here those words come out of a happy homeowner when you complete a complicated project loaded with job site variables is priceless. I busted my ass on this project, a job I came SO close to walking away from, took it on with irreplaceable tactical support from some folks with much more experience than me, and knocked it out of the park. The project took a bit longer than I had hoped for, but the extra time I spent researching stripping strategies led me to build in an additional $2K for unexpected issues. That saved me and made the project both educational AND profitable.

I think that 'walking away' from certain jobs should always be an option. But I agree with what Rick and Jim have said, in many different threads with respect to seeing these PITA projects as an incredible opportunity for growth. Most of my first 25 decks this year were ALL just generally neglected, minimal failing finish, redwood decks restores. I had more buckets of sodium percarb than I knew what to do with! Easy skeezy..Then I hit 4 acrylics in a row, only to be topped by this Ipe Urethane strip.

Live, learn, and prosper.

Edited September 7, 2008 by fireandrain

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Good deal Matt!..always glad to see that you finish what you start. The walking away is always an option. Is best thing to happen to someone that had a no good test result.

I do hope next season ya get a good string of easy ones again. :)

Oh also..so what strip strategy or chem ya do on that one?

[James 624]

Sometimes, with regards to Cedar garage doors I don't know if they can be saved until I strip them and evaluate the condition of the wood. I can't tell because of the POLLY-U-PAIN. What I have found out is the "POLLYYOURAPAIN" masks problems and sometimes its to late too save. IT's always the bottom 1/3 of the doors. This garage door stuff it's starting to be a Niche ( that I hate). Being in front of a 10 by 10 set of doors has many issues to consider because I have left and quit many times( for the day). Only to return and finish the project and determined never do another garage door!! Just picked up another Two GD's . NOTE: Tongue and groove Wood garage doors are of terrible Quality They are however; excellent fill in work and will lead you to very High end Hoods . That just may have a Cedar Gazebo, Mahogany Deck and a ton of Deck Furniture around a pool that has a black moldy surface ?

It's funny how a request turns into a good thread ?

Quality

[Ron G. 14]

I don't say this in impress people but to impress upon them to know there craft. Understand every situation has a solution. Sometimes it is walking away. Be up front if you don't know ! This is very important and you will gain respect. Study all aspects of your craft. This only comes with experiencing many situations and the patience to investigate and solve problems. With success the calls and referrals will be Very High Caliber. Your sold before you call or see the job ????

Thank you James, words to live by.

Very true words. Create a deserved reputation over time and three things seem to happen. First, the type of customer and jobs are in the higher dollar range. Second, those customers tend to provide more and better referrals to other high end customers. Third, you will become more involved in interesting work with exotic woods and challenging restorations.

Rick, this is ultimately where I want my biz positioned.

As always, wise words from Rick and Jim. Anyone new to exterior wood restoration should copy those two posts from Rick and Jim, paste them into a word document, enlarge the font to 36, and tack them on the dashboard of their truck!

.

Agreed!

It's funny how a request turns into a good thread ?

Quality

Yeah, don't stop now, your just getting warmed up.