U.A.W. salaries crippling auto indus?

[plainpainter 217]

You know how the Republicans killed the bill to give the auto makers a loan citing how union auto wages are making american cars uncompetitive. IT's total horse$hit! Check out this link - down below it explains what percentage

of the total cost of the average vehicle that labor costs are.

Chrysler says to shut down all production for month - Yahoo! News

If you don't feel like reading this link - let me tell you - all labor costs represents only 10% of the total selling price of an average vehicle!!!!!

[John Doherty 126]

Wow only 10%, the problem with that is the non UAW maufacturers, Honda, Nissan, etc only spend 1/2 as much on their labor costs.

That makes the 10% number meaningless, the UAW agreements make the cars 2xs more expensive to manufacture from a labor standpoint.

Why U.S. automakers like GM and Ford are losing money - Jan. 26, 2007

[Doug Dahlke 114]

Daniel. I didn't see the reference to the labor costs in your link. Are you sure that the 10% labor costs you cite are all inclusive or are they just the direct labor hourly rate? I managed a textile plant for a number of years and our labor costs as shown on the budget were wage only. All the benefits were under separate line items.

[FLEETWASHDUDE 14]

True but didnt the UAW just recently within the past year lower those labor cost to more competetive levels. If I remember correctly, it was costing around two thousand dollars per vehicle just for the retirement benefits for those employees. The ball allready began rolling downhill before the UAW and the big 3 could come together and lower labor cost. ??

I have always been against Unions. If I went to fill out an application somewhere and was in need of a job, and agreed to be paid $14 per hour for my time and labor there, wouldnt it be wrong to join a union of workers and demand higher wages and benefits by threatening to walk off? It isnt right. Its Blackmale. One more reason I have always been a republican.

[plainpainter 217]

Daniel. I didn't see the reference to the labor costs in your link. Are you sure that the 10% labor costs you cite are all inclusive or are they just the direct labor hourly rate? I managed a textile plant for a number of years and our labor costs as shown on the budget were wage only. All the benefits were under separate line items.

It's towards the bottom - the paragraph to the right of the picture - I am posting the paragraph here....

The more than 30,000 Chrysler workers in the United States represented by the UAW receive nearly full benefits and wages during plant shutdowns, but labor costs represent only about 10 percent of the total cost of the average vehicle.

[plainpainter 217]

If I went to fill out an application somewhere and was in need of a job, and agreed to be paid $14 per hour for my time and labor there, wouldnt it be wrong to join a union of workers and demand higher wages and benefits by threatening to walk off? It isnt right. Its Blackmale. One more reason I have always been a republican.

I don't understand your logic? You claim accepting a job for a certain wage and then joining a union is somehow not right? Because there is a possibility of demanding more money and walking off? And that's blackmale? ???

Excuse me - is it blackmale when I worked for engineering companies - and some engineer went to the manager and asked for a better raise and threatened to leave? It's called empowerment of the people! It's called bartering. How about the law of supply and demand - low supply of workers, higher demand for salaries!

What you describe sounds something like slavery - working for the man, with no recourse to change your destiny.

A union is simply the solidarity of a group of people to improve their working conditions. But heck -maybe you skipped class that day when they talked about 19th century working conditions in factories - if you had studied that - maybe you'd understand the evolution of unions and characters like Jimmy Hoffa.

[FLEETWASHDUDE 14]

I think its a little different story when you take one employee asking for more money and an entire union threatening to shut down a plant or company.

[FLEETWASHDUDE 14]

I still dont see your logic. I dont think Unions have the same goals as they once did.

Edited December 18, 2008 by FLEETWASHDUDE

[chris francis 15]

Just look what the union did to the 3 big amircan car company they almost bankrupt or will be in few months. Now look at the other car companies running fine no problem. Unions are of past and was for better work conditions, child labor laws then came the 70 and 80 were the union start pushing for better wages for some work factory line make $14 to put one screw in the door let me ask you this is that price going to be put on to the cost of car and truck yes I say let them die rise from the the died to star new with out the union.

[plainpainter 217]

I think Unions have taken advantage of their employers. We are seeing the effects of that. Unionized companies are heading downhill fast. Something has to change. I still dont see your logic.

I am not saying unions are perfect - but they evolved from the harsh abuses from factory owners of the 19th century. Back then folks had absolutely no recourse - they were treated like crap - and kicked to the curbside whenever they felt like.

My Great Grandfather and his family owned textile plants in northern France in the 19th century. One day a worker complained to him about working conditions - and you know what his answer was? He pulled a gun and shoved it in his face and told him to get back to work. Is that the life you want to go back to?

[Cajun Cleanin 64]

I don't understand your logic? You claim accepting a job for a certain wage and then joining a union is somehow not right? Because there is a possibility of demanding more money and walking off? And that's blackmale? ???

Excuse me - is it blackmale when I worked for engineering companies - and some engineer went to the manager and asked for a better raise and threatened to leave? It's called empowerment of the people! It's called bartering. How about the law of supply and demand - low supply of workers, higher demand for salaries!

What you describe sounds something like slavery - working for the man, with no recourse to change your destiny.

A union is simply the solidarity of a group of people to improve their working conditions. But heck -maybe you skipped class that day when they talked about 19th century working conditions in factories - if you had studied that - maybe you'd understand the evolution of unions and characters like Jimmy Hoffa.

They improve the work conditions by threats though not by performance and work output.The foreign automakers are unionized also but they don't sign bad contracts.The big three have been forced into bad deals for years.Why do you think the foreign companies don't build plants in the same areas as the big three?

They can get good workers and cheaper in the south because it costs less to live here.It is supply and demand.Good people who will work for the wage offered.Not the wage that was threatened and cajoled out of the companies.

I want the big three to survive but it will be smaller more productive companies than they are now.They will have to be to survive.I mean come on you pay people to stay home because they plant is down.That's like my customers paying me to not wash their house this month.I think unions are god and bad they protect the people but unfortunately they protect the people who need to get run off because they are worthless and won't work.

[chris francis 15]

I say look for it the unions almost coming to there end life florida is right to work state you can have the union but that does not mean you have to join them you still can be fired if you are in union here. I only know of one company that has the union in florida that is disney.

[Alexy 85]

You need to understand the hourly wage is not what is really killing the US auto worker. The healthcare packages, pension and labor fees are not listed in that hourly wage. These are all negotiated seprerately.

Also the UAW has forbid automation to the extent that other car lines to artifically preserve the labor force. Areas that can be automated and done are not.

[MichiganPowerWashing.com 14]

You need to understand the hourly wage is not what is really killing the US auto worker. The healthcare packages, pension and labor fees are not listed in that hourly wage. These are all negotiated seprerately.

Also the UAW has forbid automation to the extent that other car lines to artifically preserve the labor force. Areas that can be automated and done are not.

That's exactly what I wanted to add . As far as I know just health package in US car company is close to $2000 on average per car... where other companies it's from $300 to $900 . Because of that they can't make money on small cars. they kept building expensive , fully loaded gas guzzlers while Japanese and Korean companies used their heads during fresh start couple decades ago without bad union contracts. You have to remember that all of this was started with unions in "better times" Unions idea didn't change but the whole market/economy did and here is the problem.

I wonder if we learned our lesson from laughing at Japanese car makers few decades ago . Should we stop laughing now at Chinese car companies ?

It looks that all union wants is to keep higher wages ....LET ME ASK YOU THIS ....IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO THAT IF THERE IS NO COMPANY IN A FEW MONTHS ?

I have to add this ... I'm not against unions but I'm against their "CEO role" over big 3

Edited December 18, 2008 by MichiganPowerWashing.com