Need Help

[eric 14]

Hi,

I Am Just Starting Out And Have A Few Questions. I Am Running A 3500 Psi 4 Gpm Unit W/ Warm Water. My Customers Are Homeowners. I Need Advise On The Best Cleaning Solvents To Use. What Is Oxygen Bleach? I Was Planning On Using Dawn Dish Detergent W/ A Little Bleach Depending On How Dirty The House Is. Is This The Best Cleaner ? If So, What Type Of Cut Water /bleach Should I Use? Can You Recommend Another Liquid Detergent That Is Good For Homes & Walkways.? Preferably Something Biodegradable. My Detergent Connector Is After The Pump. Also, Is There Anything Bleach Should Never Be Applied To?

Please Help

Thank You Very Much In Advance

[Mike Williamson 198]

Warm water?

Oxygen bleach is primarily sodium percarbonate, good for wood cleaning, not so effective for house washing.

If you're serious about being a pressure washing contractor, get rid of the dawn and buy cleaners designed for what you're doing. I use Citracleen, and it is the best soap I've used by far. You can order it from Steve Rowlett at 1-800-357-6295. If you're skeptical, order a small amount at first and try it.

As far as bleach, check with your local pool supply store and see if you can get liquid pool chlorine. It is typically twice as strong as bleach, and usually cheaper. Just be sure not to get the housewash mix on plants without pre-wetting and rinsing well afterwards.

You also need an Xjet. It is the most valuable tool you'll probably ever buy. It allows you to apply chems at a stronger ratio, thus allowing you to clean more efficiently. Do a search for it on this or other boards and you'll see what I'm talking about.

My typical housewash mix is 1/2 - 1 gallon of citracleen, 1-2 gallons of pool chlorine, and water all mixed in a 5 gallon bucket. I apply using the Xjet, and usually rinse with the Xjet or a low pressure zero degree tip. I can wash a typical ranch style 2000 sq foot home in about an hour to an hour and a half, including set up and break-down.

email me at oneness@gator.net if you have any questions about anything I've said.

[Firedkm 14]

Ditto on what Mike has said about the x-jet and the citracleen. I feel it one of the best soaps out on the market today.

You may also want to do a search on house washes. There is plenty of information on this board to give you some more ideas on other house wash mixes that people use.

[RyanH 14]

I bought the X-Jet (adjustable tip, I believe called the M5) and have not had to use any of my tips since. It is a phenomenal tool and is by far the most important part of my kit. It's even reduced the number of times I've had to use my 24' extension pole by over 90% (I used to use it on almost every house, now I use it in very rare situations).

I now use a bleach/TSP mix with water for my house wash mix. I usually X-jet my mix on so that the bleach solution is around 1% when it touches the house. I've had no need to use any dish detergent.

All (commercially available) chemicals are biodegradable given enough time, so almost anything will fit this description. Clorox Outdoor Bleach has additives to break the solution down to water and salts to make them relatively harmless. I use Purple Power for gutters and they claim to be biodegradable. My house wash mix does a decent job at loosening the grime and mold on driveways and stone.

[Firedkm 14]

Ryan,

I hope you do not use the tsp on aluminum siding. It states on the box that its not for that purpose. Tsp is mainly used for paint preparation in wood. I'm sure its ok on vinyl sided homes.

[Mike Williamson 198]

tsp has its uses, but I wouldn't use it on a regular basis for housewashing, unless you're doing paint prep.

My chlorine strength is between .75% and 1.5%, depending on how much pool chlorine I use. Pool chlorine will break down rather quickly, and is a hell of a lot cheaper than "outdoor" bleach.

Purple power for gutters? Do you get the black streaks off, and if so, how much scrubbing is involved? I've been using Gutter Zap, and I've gotten fair results, though with too much scrubbing (When I bought my rig used in 2002, it came with 20 gallons of GZ). I just ordered some of Steve's Gutter Shock, and have been assured by many who use it that it will outperform the GZ just like Citracleen outperforms other soaps.

tsp may be cheap, and if you satisfied with "decent" results, then I suppose that's what works for you. I wasn't satisfied with decent results, and now I'm getting outstanding results. A 5 gallon pail of housewash costs me about $4.50, and I use between 5-7 gallons for a typical 2000 sq foot ranch style house. If I have to use any GutterZap, add another $2.50 or so.

[RyanH 14]

No aluminum siding on houses in my target areas, so no worries there. If there are any aluminum areas/structures nearby (such as awnings or decorative work), I take precautions to keep them safe.

Purple power works on gutters perfectly well. It removes the black streaks and there is no scrubbing involved. The key is to limit dwell time to no more than 40 seconds at full strength. Applied with a pump up sprayer, I can reach up to 25-30 feet with a directed stream. I've only had one situation in which it performed less than perfectly and it was on a house with 20 year-old gutters (never cleaned says the homeowner). The paint was a different type of paint than on gutters now (looked more like a cheap hand painted job), so I assumed that the streaks (oil based themselves) had penetrated the paint. Full cleaning would have required removing the paint.

As for "decent" results, there is no such thing in my work. I pride myself on having integrity and providing top-quality work. Because I don't use a pre-packaged cleaner does not by any means indicate insufficient quality. I don't use outdoor bleach on my houses; I was using it as an example of products containing biodegradable material and does so by a different chemical reaction path than chlorine gas escaping the solution or radicals reacting with surrounding material (the free radicals are one of the reasons for the belief that chlorine adversely affects roofing materials, and possibly a good reaon given enough time and exposure). I use pool chlorine and can mix it to the concentration I need to give quality results. Please don't make the mistake of assuming that because someone chooses different materials than you have found to be adequate that they sacrifice quality and offer "decent" results. It's somewhat degrading and unprofessional (check some of my last posts and you should be able to understand that quality and customer satisfaction are my primary concerns).

I also have other chemicals in my "arsenal." Greased Lightening is invaluable for window sills and such...things that can't be cleaned by pressure and require scrubbing. Window cleaner is an absolute. What good is a clean house if you can't look out of your windows without obstruction.

I haven't had any requests for deck work (everyone is content with their pressure treated decks) so I don't have a need for any wood care products.

Ryan H.

[Mike Williamson 198]

My house wash mix does a decent job at loosening the grime and mold on driveways and stone.

Ryan:

I didn't mean to come across questioning the quality of your work, I was simply quoting what you said, that your housewash mix did a decent job. I was not intending to degrade you or be unprofessional. It now appears that I misunderstood what you were saying....It looks like what you were saying is that you ALSO use your housewash mix to clean driveways and stone, and get decent results.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[RyanH 14]

Eric posted the following in a private message. Reposted here in case anyone has anything to offer:

"thanks for your help. A few questions if I may. What is TSP? Using a detergent like citracleen, how many sq ft. can i expect to get out of it. Lastly, doe steh x-jet control how much detergent gets pulled from the detergent bucket? People say you can apply a stronger ratio of detergent w/ x-jet. How come??"

TSP is tri-sodium phosphate and is a good general purpose cleaner. It's stated purpose is for paint preparation, but it also works well as a detergent. I use about one cup per 10-15 gallons of house wash mix. I have never used citracleen, so I can't give any information on it. I know that 10-15 gallons of the mix I make is more than adequate for a 2500-3000 sq. ft. two/three floor vinyl house (the most common house call I get).

The X-Jet (and any downstreamer) works by a physical phenomenon discovered quite awhile back by a gentlemen named Bernoulli (won't go anymore on that).

Basically, the downstreamer on a pump or hose allows an exchange of pressure between the area outside the hose and the inside. As the water moves inside the hose (speed increases when you hold the trigger and the water flows), its pressure drops....if the pressure drops to below atmospheric pressure, then the air from outside will move into into the hose line to try and balance that pressure. That's why you get alot of air in your stream when you switch to the black soap tip on your gun. If you attach another hose to the downstreamer and drop it into an bucket of chemical (open to the atmosphere), the hose acts like a straw: the air pushes on the chemical, which is pushed into the "straw" and into your pressure hose. The chemical mixes with your water and comes out of your gun at a lower concentration. The amount of chemical that goes into the downstreamer is dependent upon the size of the orifice and the pressure difference between the flowing water and the atmostphere. Since the pressure difference is usually constant when you use the same tip, changing the orifice size of the downstreamer will change the amount of chemical. To control this, X-jet comes with proportioner tips that allows you to change the water:chemical ration from approximately 2:1 up to 1000:1 (or maybe 10000:1, can't remember).

I don't care to change the tips, so I just leave them out and stream everything at a 3:1 ratio and mix my solution to give me the final concentration I need for a certain project.

So, in answer to your question: Yes. The X-jet can control the amount of detergent pulled from the bucket (with the proportioner tips), and increasing the amount of detergent flow will increase your concentration. I hope I explained the reasons well enough above (if you want the nuts and bolts of it, check out google or howstuffworks.com for "Bernoulli's Principle").

Ryan H.

[RyanH 14]

Mike,

Oops! Guess I should reread my own postings before I go off on a rant. I forgot what I said about the driveways. Yes, I can only acheive decent results with the mix on driveways. I still haven't found a mix that will "melt" away the grime and mold on a driveway and allow cleaning without having to spend alot of time on the area. Even with my surface cleaner it takes awhile to get a really nasty driveway to look like new.

I welcome any suggestions on driveway chemicals.

Apologies,

Ryan H.

[Mike Williamson 198]

You typically use 1/2 gallon of citracleen for each 5 gallons of housewash. for a 2500-3000 square foot home, I'd use about 10 gallons of housewash.

Used without proportioners, the xjet will actually pull between 0.8:1 (for a 2 gpm machine) and 2.4:1 (for a 6gpm machine).

Like Ryan and myself, most folks I've talked to prefer to mix their own ratios and simply use the Xjet wide open rather than mess with proportioners.

[Mike Williamson 198]

If you find a magic concrete cleaner, let me know! I too use my housewash mix to coat the driveway when I'm done with the house. If I let it sit about 15 minutes, the driveway seems to clean up much easier, but not as easy as I'd like. On the other hand, I could just flip my burner on, but I HATE running hot water if I don't absolutely have to.

[CLASSICPW 14]

I've never used citricleen, but my house wash consists of 1.5 gal of bleach, 1 cup of dish detergent(just for the foaming action to keep the bleach on the siding longer) and 1/2 cup of jet dry to keep the windows spot free in a 5 gal bucket. The x-jet is the tool of the century, buy it now. As far as TSP, it just goes in my deck clean mix, that is until my efc-38 comes in.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Classic:

The dish soap also performs the cleaning action to remove the dirt and mold/algae. The bleach kills the mold/algae, but doesn't do anything to clean the siding.

There are three things I won't be without on my trailer...My Xjet, my surface cleaner, and Citracleen.

[timhays 14]

the only thing i use on concrete is hydrocloric acid 50/50,even on the concrete that is black from mold growth the acid cleans better than chlorine.

unless were dealing with rubber or grease then its sodium hydroxide.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Does the acid remove tannin stains? Chlorine is the only thing I've found that will touch them, other than a jackhammer. :)

[Aplus 525]

HC acid is too dangerous and toxic as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather stick with a sodium hydroxide based product for cleaning concrete. Just my .02

[Guest rfitz]

If you want to save time and money, use the X-jet, Downstreaming on most houses, just doesnt cut it, you will use 3-5 times the chems and double or triple the time trying to achieve the same results, as far as concrete stains sodium Hydroxide products wont touch leaf stains, sap stains, etc.. 50-50 pool chlorine is pretty effective for those, and as far as house and gutter and wood cleaner, I use one and only need one, it is 6136 from Pressuretek.com

my normal starting mix is 50-1 and I go up from there, for concrete use their F-18 at 16 Oz to a gallon of water, it is the best wood stripper/ concrete cleaner I have found yet... but is also affordable...:)

[CCHSNC 14]

I will have to agree with rftz on the F-18 and F-13 (6136). But personally I like my down stream injector. It keeps me from having to tote a bucket around. I still do use the M5 for rinsing though. (This should get some interesting feed back on this post) I know all you guys go gaga over Steves stuff but in all my situations the F-13 will out perform citriclean. Will citriclean clean gutters and leave them like new??? No. F-13 will. Does the citriclean have multiple uses?? Not really. Some will same multi purpose cleaners aren't good. I ask why?? You spend and store less. You also need allot less detergent to wash a house therefore making it more cost effective. (just be careful when trying F-13 for the first time because it will put this stuff called foam on whatever your cleaning) I know Steves stuff works and allot of people like it along with other good cleaners on the market, heck I still have some left over. (anyone want to buy it?? I just feel if ya know there is something that may be better than what you are using I personally will at least try it to see if it's all people say it is. (my .05 worth)

[CCPC 26]

I like my downstream injector as well. I would say that 7 out of 10 times I get enough chem strength from just the downstreamer and the other 3 out of 10 times I am able to spot clean the build up areas with just a pump up sprayer. I purchased the M5 about a month ago and have not explored its uses thoroughly as of yet, but I plan to. Maybe if I did a stucco house where the whole thing was covered with thick build up I would break it out, but usually, around here, spot cleaning is all that is needed for a few limited areas of build up.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Build up of what?

Without the Xjet, I'd not get done nearly as quick doing a typical housewash. My 5 gallon mix consists of 1/2 - 1 gallon of citracleen, 1-2 gallons of 10.5% pool chlorine, and water. A bit of wax and rinse aid, depending on what I'm washing. Anything less than 1 gallon of 10.5% in a 5 gallon bucket Xjetted on just doesn't cut the mold and algae very well. If I use 2 gallons, I never have to do anything but a very low pressure rinse. I just don't see how you get a strong enough chlorine ration through the downstreamer to be very effective.

[CCPC 26]

The build up I was refering to is mold, mildew, algea etc. Everyone keeps saying how much faster the x-jet is vs. downstreaming I just don't see it. When I pull up to do the average house The only thing I need to remove from my trailer is my wand a few tips, maybee an extra 6' lance and my hose. If there is a spot that needs a stronger dose of chem I grab my pump up sprayer. If I need to reach a high spot I use my 0 degree chem nozzle ( shoots chem up to 30 or 40 feet) Now of course thats not the only things I ever need to do the job, depending on what it is that I'm cleaning, but the point is that its kept simple without sacrificing quality work. When using the X-Jet I have to remove more stuff from trailer, waste more time moving buckets around as I clean, and waste more time rinsing foliage, which I rarely have to do when using my downstreamer.

Like I stated earlier, the only time I can see the x-=jet as a real time saver, when doing house washes, is when I am cleaning a brick, stucco or other type of masonry home with an extreme amount of biological growth ot it. As far as vinyle siding goes, I don't think I have ever needed any thing but my downstream injector.

Most of the time the higher dose of chem seems to do nothing more than kill the mildew faster, which, in turn, does save some time, but the extra time wasted rinsing plants, setting up, filling and moving buckets, and packing up seems to counter act that savings of time. Honestly, I think a lot of guys are using way more chem strength on house washings than they really need to achieve good results.

[Guest rfitz]

Trust me, you will save a ton of time and money using the X-jet, we wash a 2500 square foot house in under 40 minutes, add hand scrubbing the gutters and its about 65-80 minutes, the reason, when using the X-jet, theres no guessing about spot cleaning, or having to go back over a spot, and yes, I average using half the chems when X-jetting, rather than downstreaming,

(Sorry Bob) But if you do the math on x-jetting chems or downstreaming you will be amazed, even at 7 or 8 to 1 downstreaming for mold or artillery fungus just wont cut it, at 3-1 chlorine cuts right through it in less than 5 minutes,

we average 4-6 house washes a day, and 2-3 decks, so speed and efficiency are my focus, and the x-jet is what gives us that speed, I didnt think so at first, but now we have a system down no body in town can wash as good or nearly as fast, but getting the right people working for you plays a big part in that as well...:)

Hope This Helps...

[CCPC 26]

I probably really need to try to incorporate the x-jet into an everyday thing. I'm thinking one of the reasons the xjet seems so ineffecient to me is because I have never allowed myself time to develop speed due to routine usage, so the few times I do use it, it seems somewhat akward.

[Mike Williamson 198]

CCPC:

I felt the same way at first....I'd get aggrivated with pulling buckets around, tipping them over, etc etc. I've gotten used to it, and it really takes no time at all to set up. I grab my bucket and Xjet, a bucket for mixing chems, set the bucket on the corner of the house, pour in my chems, add water, and I'm ready. I can apply chems to 1/2 the house in a couple minutes, and while they're dwelling (5 minutes, no more) I'm moving the bucket to the other side of the house and rinsing plants. Then I rinse the first 1/2 of the house and start over. Like Rob, I can be in and out in a bit over an hour with doing the gutters. No gutter cleaning, I'm in and out in less than an hour, and that's not being in a huge hurry.

I am working on some condos right now that if I had to downstream, I'd never get them clean....I have some very badly mildewed chimneys that are about 30' tall...vinyl sided. On a couple I had to Xjet straight 10.5% to get them clean...you'd never get that kind of ratio with the downstreamer. I had 3.3% sodium hypochlorite hitting the mildew....with the downstreamer, the best you're going to get is between 1 and 2%, closer to 1%. With the Xjet, basically, if I can shoot it, I can clean it, without ladders, extensions, or lifts.

[Firedkm 14]

I have a 30 gallon drum on a hand cart. I make up my house wash the night before. I can get approx 4-6 house out of this. The x-jet tub is tie wraped to the hand truck and my gutter cleaner is in a 5 gal bucket. I use 2 nozzles. The m-5 x-jet and a 4013 tip. The 4013 tip I use for wetting down the plant etc. When doing the house I use only the x-jet. and the hose lenght I have is 40' and I can do just about half the house in one shot. So when you say you have extra stuff to take off that maybe, but when you got to shhot the gutters wit something what do you do. Go back to the machine and place the tube into the gutter mix? Than all that chem is in the hose and you have to wait for it to flush out. With the x-jet you do not have to what for that to flush out. Less time using the x-jet is my opinion.

Just take the pluge and stop coming up with excuses and use it. After you use it and dont like it thats fine. Just use the damn thing and let us know!:)