Why I am going with A.C.

[plainpainter 217]

Choosing deck stains the past few years has been troublesome at best. My frustrations have been - as much as my customers have dropped their jaws from the final finish - and despite the fact I have used every trick in the book - there is still something amiss in my eyes with the finish.

Now there is this competitor in my area - and they did this deck by the roadside last summer - I drive by it as least once a week - and it looked beautiful the day they put it on - and almost a year later - the deck looks totally rocking - Except for a single vein {wood has tricky spots, nothing you can do} the deck truly has an appearance that has not faded one iota!

I have almost swallowed my pride on several occasions and nearly stopped to knock on the guy's door and ask if they know what product was used, but I restrained for many reasons. The finish is that gorgeous.

So I go on this competitor's website and they mention the stain they use has over 75% solids. So I start looking through the different manufacturers to check out what the solids content are - thinking perhaps TWP 500 series is such - but no, I try others. Then I do a search and find an article and link to A.C.'s website - lo and behold their semi-trans is 75% solids - PAYDIRT!!!

I've been drooling over this deck for about a year now! Now I have the confirmation of what the product is. Like I said - you use every trick up your sleeve to make sure a job turns out well and looks great - and even though the customer loves it - you just know it should be so much better. And I know my competitor doesn't really prep nearly as much as I do. So now I am really looking forward to using Armstrong-Clark - I've been watching the results for a year and love what I am seeing.

[plainpainter 217]

Ok I am going to be forced into giving a detailed time lapse of my work due to some pretty ridiculous comments about 'proper' prep or was did I check the 'moisture' levels. Honestly, Rick, what a lot of hocus pocus - I bought into all that 'moisture' level ding-dong several years ago, bought all the meters - and what I found out, was that when wood felt dry to the hands, it was well below 14% moisture.

So all that said - here is the original finished product, picture taken Nov. 1 of '07 This is after 2 coats applied a month apart.

[plainpainter 217]

So here is a picture taken almost a year later Oct. 12 of '08 - yes it had been washed 4 times prior over the entire length of spring/summer/early fall- but only 2 cups of household bleach per gallon with dishwashing soap and nothing else! Brushed on from a bucket - did wash the final time with Deckswood at half strength to remove all the iron rings - as it's an oxalic product and lots of tannins from leaves of an overhead walnut tree.

[plainpainter 217]

And here is the '3rd' coat going on the same day back in Oct. of '08. Look like enough is going on?

[RPetry 564]

Ok I am going to be forced into giving a detailed time lapse of my work due to some pretty ridiculous comments about 'proper' prep or was did I check the 'moisture' levels. Honestly, Rick, what a lot of hocus pocus - I bought into all that 'moisture' level ding-dong several years ago, bought all the meters - and what I found out, was that when wood felt dry to the hands, it was well below 14% moisture. ...

Daniel,

I'm jealous that you can read wood moisture levels by hand. Guess what? The surface of the wood has nothing to do with proper wood moisture when using paraffinic oils.

You have a problem with your own deck with ESI's paraffinic Timberoil stain. So therefore, you state earlier in this thread:

... This is a an every year affair - no way this could ever look good enough to go two years. This type of oil stain is just not sellable to clients.

Which is frankly total nonsense. Diamond Jim has been in business well over a decade. I've been in the wood restoration business for 8 years. There are many on this board that use paraffinic oils, specifically TWP, Ready Seal, or old Shane and Baker's, that put my little business to shame. One retired lurker, that has never posted, probably at one time had the largest wood restoration business in the country, and used Ready Seal stains. Look at the TGS polls over the years. Paraffinic oil stains have consistently been the most used by contractors.

Think all these contractors built, and remained in business, having to service all their customers every year? I suggest otherwise.

You either have a prep, application, or specific stain problem.

[plainpainter 217]

Ok - Rick - so a deck that is 4 feet above the ground - has been drying for over 2-3 days of nice dry blue-sky October days - and you think you need a moisture meter? I've stuck moisture meters into more places than I care to think - and the thing I have learned, is when wood feels dry - it probably is dry.

As far as I know - Baker's and TWP even though touted by you guys as parafinnics are not true parafinnics - they aren't like readyseal - only TWP200 is a true parafinnic.

I don't have a problem with the application of this stain - it is what it is - parafinnics are junk!!!! There is nothing binding, no resins, no nothing to bind trans-oxide pigments to the surface - it just leeches endlessly away.....and away.....and away.....

I will coat this deck again this year for $hit 'n giggles, but it just confirms what I think about a deck stain - nothing like a curing resin like a linseed or tung oil alkyd to make a great deck stain - can't wait to start using Armstrong Clark - I see the value of a partially parafinnic component to a stain - but there still needs to be a 'lid' to hold it all in place.

[RPetry 564]

Daniel,

Enough shown and said. Follow your own road. Good night.

[plainpainter 217]

I washed the deck today Rick with some of that Arm & Hammer clothes washing detergent with Oxi-Clean - will post pics of it tomorrow after it's first washing of the year.

I'm only mildly convinced that TWP-200 has some potential - but it isn't recommended for horizontal surfaces.

[plainpainter 217]

How's this for 'improper' prep for ya Rick. Here is a step built for my friend's Dad who was dying at the time and couldn't even make this step - so this in between step was made for him. I did a bunch of things for my Friends mom back in June of '07 - painting, carpentry, and stained this step. It was already 5-6 years old at the time - never treated and greyed out.

I had a 5'er with about an inch of downstream solution that I had leftover from a house wash 3 days prior - to give you an idea from what I was working with.

So I added water to an already weakened/old solution to make sure I had enough to spread around.

I then used a deck scrub brush - and dipped into this bleach solution and just scrubbed it on - and I kept scrubbing it and scrubbing it - to make up for the obvious lack in strength of the cleaning solution - and the fact I didn't have a pressure washer with me at the time.

I then finally unraveled her hose and with my thumb 'rinsed' this little step off - after a 60 second 'dry' time - what do you think the moisture meter read, Rick? I took out some leftover Woodtux wet warm honey gold and just brushed it into this little step.

And here is the photo - taken back in early April of '08 - a Full 10 months and one New England winter after the cleaning and application of stain.

Not bad - ehh? I spent 1000X the amount of prep on my own deck than this little POS. But look how nice the color is there - it looks great even after one year - and how many rules did I break?

I will drive by and take photos tomorrow to see how it's doing at the 2 year mark - bet it still looks great!

[Greg Rentschler 14]

In my years of doing woodcare I have the say the AC rivals anything I've used to date. Some products over the years have treated me well while others have been a total nightmare but nothing has been as close to perfect as the AC (semitrans specifically) to date. A big problem over the years has been obtaining consistant reliable results out of ONE quality product line for the various applications we service. With the AC you can expect great results on virtually everything it goes on and to me thats priceless (don't take that literally Jake, Scott & Steve :D ).

[PressurePros 248]

I have to say that it does seem to have the right combination of all worlds. It dives quick, it sets rapidly without flashing, the tone is very even, one coat does rails very nicely. The cedar semi trans finishes beautifully. All of this in a VOC compliant product you can apply to 20% moist wood? Somebody pinch me.

[Scott Paul 164]

With the AC you can expect great results on virtually everything it goes on and to me thats priceless (don't take that literally Jake, Scott & Steve :D ).

hmmm...:D

[Scott Paul 164]

I have to say that it does seem to have the right combination of all worlds. It dives quick, it sets rapidly without flashing, the tone is very even, one coat does rails very nicely. The cedar semi trans finishes beautifully. All of this in a VOC compliant product you can apply to 20% moist wood? Somebody pinch me.

Ken, have you tried that SuperCedar yet?

[Greg Rentschler 14]

Scott - Isn't the Super Cedar more in the toner family? I have a gallon here but haven't used it other than a brush out. From what I recall it didn't have as much pigment at the semi's.

[Celeste 341]

I had that same question when I saw it on the site - I definitely would not consider that a semi-solid AT ALL!

[PressurePros 248]

I haven't yet Scott. Waiting for a smaller project. (and a run of dry weather.. I sent a guy out Sunday and Monday thru Weds have been good.. rest of the week looks like its back to opening more projects.)

Scott, Greg and Celest are now making me wonder if I should open that can you sent me. Your positive that is the semi solid?

[Scott Paul 164]

Scott - Isn't the Super Cedar more in the toner family? I have a gallon here but haven't used it other than a brush out. From what I recall it didn't have as much pigment at the semi's.

It actually has more and is considered in the semi-solid range.

[Scott Paul 164]

I haven't yet Scott. Waiting for a smaller project. (and a run of dry weather.. I sent a guy out Sunday and Monday thru Weds have been good.. rest of the week looks like its back to opening more projects.)

Scott, Greg and Celest are now making me wonder if I should open that can you sent me. Your positive that is the semi solid?

According to Jake it is loaded with pigment making it a semi-soild.

[bigchaz 157]

How does it hold up compared to the semi-trans? Same lifespan?

[Tonyg 14]

With my conversation with Jake - it is not and does not have the same amount of pigments as a semi-solid. The pigments may be as expensive as a semi-solid and deserve the same price but it is not comparable as far as opacity.

Jake may want to clear up the confusion. I made the mistake of telling the HO I did today that it had the same protection as a semi-solid. Good thing it stays in the shade most of the day.

[RPetry 564]

... All of this in a VOC compliant product you can apply to 20% moist wood? ...

Ken,

If I recall, AC optimum wood moisture content is 15% or less. Check with Mark.

[PressurePros 248]

I got the inside scoop that you can get it on 20%, Rick. ;)

[PressurePros 248]

How does it hold up compared to the semi-trans? Same lifespan?

Charlie, since pigment is the sacrificial host in a stain, I would think it would outlast the semi trans by measurable margin.

[RPetry 564]

Ken,

Talk to Mark at AC, the technical guy for the manufacturer.

[PressurePros 248]

I will, Rick. I'll give you one heads up of how we over analyze and worry about things. Shane used to stain decks in the afternoon that were under thunderstorms the night before. that was with Baker's a real thin parafinic oil based product. He told me many times he never had a problem. If I waited for 15% moisture around here I'd be lucky to do 12 decks per year.

[RPetry 564]

I will, Rick. I'll give you one heads up of how we over analyze and worry about things. Shane used to stain decks in the afternoon that were under thunderstorms the night before. that was with Baker's a real thin parafinic oil based product. He told me many times he never had a problem. If I waited for 15% moisture around here I'd be lucky to do 12 decks per year.

Ken,

I never worry. I'm not smart enough to second guess manufacturer's recommendations. Granted, their guidelines may be conservative. But for what we charge our customers, they deserve specification work.

As you probably well know, we use a lot of Ready Seal. It never, ever has been applied to wood over 12%. And we do a lot more than 12 jobs a season.

The only penalty is new work. Maintenance wood still has oil in the wood and they dry out fast. New hardwood jobs are certainly not a problem. Especially ipe', that dries out in a flash.