detailbarn 14 Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Ok I've decieded to switch to downstreaming over the x jet and have loved it on the 6 houses I've used it on. I have an envirospec super suds sucker and currently I just quick connect it when I set up but I'm moving my new vb-10 unloader to a mounting block this week and would like to see if I can also mount the injector more permanet and with a ball valve to shut it off. What I'm lost on is where to mount it and if it's ok to do this with the injector. Where does the shut off valve go before or after ect ect. Any help would be great and pictures would be the best. Thanks for the help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PressurePros 249 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Doug, I am not a tech guy but I am unsure as to why you would want to do that? They go bad often. They will also limit your flow. The only place (as far as I know) that you could shut it off would be to put a valve on the suction hose. I suppose you could rig an intricate T or Y setup to bypass it but at that point, I would just uncouple it and take it off line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detailbarn 14 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 ken thanks I thought i may be over thinking the whole thing. I get excited with setting this stuff up so I tend to try overshoot it. So I'll just leave it as a quick connect. Thanks for the info. Another question you may be able to help with, I switched my unloader to a vb-10 which is great but it effectivly dropped my unit down to 3000psi from 4000psi. Now I'm not sure what size tips to use to get my full 5.5 gpm. I'd like a set of tips for 3000psi , 2500psi , 2000psi and 1500psi. What sizes do i need. thanks again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PressurePros 249 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Doug, like I mentioned.. not a real tech geek here. I am unfamiliar with that unloader. Why is it dropping your pressure? Is it adjustable? Did you set it with a tip rated for your gpm and pump's rated pressure? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detailbarn 14 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) oh sorry forgot to mention the vb-10 is only rated to 3200psi , which is ok with me I rarely used anything over 3500psi. I guess my question is - now that my machine is essentially a 3000psi unit - should I buy nozzles as such. And what nozzle size would I use for 5.5gpm @3000psi thanks again Edited August 27, 2009 by detailbarn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
offduty 25 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 You should buy an unloader that is rated for your machine. The one you got will not work for you with out causing problems later. My injectors stay on always. They are on quick connects mounted under the swivels on my reels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detailbarn 14 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 You should buy an unloader that is rated for your machine. The one you got will not work for you with out causing problems later. My injectors stay on always. They are on quick connects mounted under the swivels on my reels. Well I bought the unloader based on the recommendation of two different vendors and both assured me it would cause no problems. Honestly not sure how it could cause problems unless I cranked the unloader above what it's rated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
offduty 25 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 If you have a pump that is rated for X amount of pressure and buy an unloader that doesn't meet that pressure, the pump doesn't just quit producing more pressure. There are probably a lot of vendors that set unloaders using a gauge. Don;t take my advise or a vendors. Reason it out and figure on it. I have been given a lot of bad advise from vendors/contractors/etc. My fault for following it if something goes wrong, not theirs for giving it. Some guys just don't know any better but are trying to help. Call me tomorrow if you like and I will help you any way I can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detailbarn 14 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Well I have to give some trust to my vendors they should know the product they are selling and if they sell me something that knowingly causes me problems they loose my business and possibly those who hear of my issue. That being said I know that my pump is rated to 5000psi with a 24hp engine but pressure pro puts a 20hp on it and it's rated to 4000psi. I then in turn change that psi by downsizing my tips, at that point the machine isn't still making 4000psi. So if I then put an unloader on that is set at 3000psi (which I've checked with a pressure gauge) the pump isn't still making 4000psi it's limited by the unloader thus actually making the pump not work as hard as it would be at 4000psi or even 5000psi which it's capable of. Where it would become an issue would be if I was trying to raise my pressure after the pump thus straining it and causeing failure. Please if this is improper understanding correct me but my understanding is lowering the pressure is not a bad thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Kassander 26 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 The unloder acts as a type of relief valve that is its function. I can put a 500 psi valve on a 10000 psi pump and it can function just fine. With that unloder set at 500 psi the pump will never achieve a pressure greater than that. The most important thing is to make sure it can handle the flow rating. The only way I should ever have an issue is if I have a failure that would cause the unloder to see over 500 psi in this case. The pump builds pressure based on restriction and will continue to do so without any regulation until something fails. Water(gpm) forced through a tip of a certain size will create a certain pressure IE. 3 gpm through a #4 tip will create up to 4000 psi (as long as the pump can produce that pressure) 3 gpm through a #8 tip is about 600 psi...and so on (see nozzle chart) The function of an unloader is to bypass water so you can shut off flow at your gun without having to shut down your machine (think of it as a diverter valve). The unloder doesn't build pressure it only regulates it. When you 'adjust' your unloader what you are doing is to set the pressure at which the unloder will go into bypass mode which circulates the water without restriction. If I set my unloder to 800 psi and have it installed on a 10000 psi pump I will never be able to achieve over 800 psi on the pump no matter which tip I use. With a trapped pressure unloader it will bypass the water it cannot force through the nozzle at 800 psi. With a flow unloder if the tip is too small it will cycle on and off but still will not achieve more than 800 psi. With both unloaders the only way you will see a pressure greater than 800 psi, in this case, is if there is a failure of some sort. This is why you should always have a pressure relief valve on your pump. If you see an excessive spike in your unloader when you release the trigger beyond your operating or max pressure setting then you do not have the unloder adjusted properly and you need to readjust it to the proper setting (back it off). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
offduty 25 Report post Posted August 28, 2009 Paul, I understand what you are saying I think, and we may be getting at the same point. In your example the pressure may not go over 800 psi, except when you initially pull the trigger, but you are bypassing a lot of water, wearing out the spring. I set my unloaders to allow zero bypass when I am flowing. I could care less what the pressure is, I want the volume. Why would someone want to save $20 and not get an unloader that matches his pump is my question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detailbarn 14 Report post Posted August 28, 2009 well there is my answer, I actually spoke to Paul from enviro spec today about this and I'm fine not doing any damage to anything I actually am making my pump work less. Enviro-Spec is where I bought the unloader from and I've got to say they are very helpful and great to do business with. The guys at enviro spec have went above an beyond to help me, that's great customer service which guarantees they'll receive my business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detailbarn 14 Report post Posted August 28, 2009 Why would someone want to save $20 and not get an unloader that matches his pump is my question. the next soft touch unloader is $300 compared to the $90 I paid for the VB-10 I think the $200 saving is well worth loosing a few hundred psi that i never use anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acegot 14 Report post Posted August 28, 2009 I believe the volume stays the same, its just the pressure that is reduced. It may depend on the unloader. I took off a al607 unloader from a4000psi machine & put on a K-7 unloader with was 3500psi max & didnt loose any volume just 500 psi. that I didnt use anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RSuds 24 Report post Posted August 28, 2009 I think that you should have more pressure so you can use bigger nozzles (gal.)to get lower pressure and more water flow is better. I have alot of machines but when we put a 30 gal 0 nozzle in my 10 Gal. 3200 psi machine it will go 4 stories high with a 7' lance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
