plainpainter 217 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Check out this guy 'painttofish' covered porch restoration with Benjamin Moore Hardwood stain. He did this in August '08 Staining exotic hardwoods - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum Now check out his posts that he has just done recently and look at those boards over a year later!!! ipe deck staining - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum Does this stain look this good because it's covered, or is there something to this product? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 RPetry 564 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Daniel, I tested a bunch of stains, including the BM waterbased hardwood stain on my own ipe' last year. Looked OK for a bit, but weathered to a very blotchy looking finish. As far as pigment retention, the Defy stain for hardwoods was by far the winner. See the attached pics after one year of full sun. The Defy swatch is obvious, its the one with the even, nice color, just below the water dish. And with ipe', pigment retention is the main criteria. Even in our NE climate, nothing harms good quality ipe'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 plainpainter 217 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Rick, what's the product # on the Benjamin Moore you used? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 RPetry 564 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Rick, what's the product # on the Benjamin Moore you used? Daniel, Here is a pic of the can, the product was given to me to test by a local BM dealer. The Heineken beer on the right is a better manufactured product than the stain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 plainpainter 217 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Huh, yeah that's the same stuff the other guy put down. And to boot, it's the 550g/l VOC version. Rick, I've never worked with IPE - but with Mahogany I can lambswool one full coat of A.C. stain onto Mahogany - and then 30 minutes later, lambswool a second coat and have it suck it all up. Can you do the same with IPE? Or it just wont' accept much more stain? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 RPetry 564 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Daniel, Ipe' is kind of a "hard" type of mahogany. With ipe', unless it is less than about a year after installation, we usually get two separate oilings into the wood. Most mahogany's, two separate oilings is no problem. Just depends on the wood itself, exposure to weathering/sun, and the quality of the wood. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 plainpainter 217 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Rick, I'd be real interested if your tests were taken to larger areas with actual spread rates taken. This doesn't have to be you, obviously you've sacrificed your own deck far too many times for the greater good. But I'd really be interested to see how say Ben Moore performed over a larger area, so we could get a more accurate spread rate, let's say a spread rate of 175 SF/gallon over two wet-on-wet coats vs. those really tiny areas you did. Just wondering if perhaps those products under the conditions of those small areas aren't showing their true potential. For instance the last deck of the season I did on pressure treated came to like 190 SF/Gallon on the first coat - but by the time I had double coated all the floorboards - the total rate had sunk to 120 SF/gallon. I am sure if you could duplicate the deck I did, but kept one of them at only one coat - it wouldn't last as long as the double coated deck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 RPetry 564 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Daniel, "Spread rates" or "how many sq. ft. per gal." is very low on the total cost of any wood job. Much more important is the amount of labor of application. Even more important is the effort and cost to you and the customer of maintenance. Criticize all you want. My "tiny" samples of various stains on ipe' is more than you or anyone else on this board has shared or as far as I know, have done. Its the same board, exposed to the same sun, dogs, and foot traffic. It is more valid than posts, speculation, and "gee, why didn't you do it this way". By the way, with the oils, RS more than held its own, coming in second. We will probably strip and restain the ipe' next spring, and applying Defy on the entire floor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 plainpainter 217 Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Daniel,"Spread rates" or "how many sq. ft. per gal." is very low on the total cost of any wood job. Much more important is the amount of labor of application. Even more important is the effort and cost to you and the customer of maintenance. Criticize all you want. My "tiny" samples of various stains on ipe' is more than you or anyone else on this board has shared or as far as I know, have done. Its the same board, exposed to the same sun, dogs, and foot traffic. It is more valid than posts, speculation, and "gee, why didn't you do it this way". By the way, with the oils, RS more than held its own, coming in second. We will probably strip and restain the ipe' next spring, and applying Defy on the entire floor. Rick, I am not criticizing what you did - I was thinking out loud, that's all. My point of spread rates has nothing to do with cost, I am just wondering if the performance of the product is a function of far it's been spread out. I am just trying to reconcile this other guy's work on another forum - it seems to be way outperforming what my intuition would guess. Probably just a fluke, who knows. I look forward to you using Defy on your whole deck, if there is a waterborne that is a workable product and delivers a good life, I'd be more than happy to dump oils. I think water based stains have a lot more profit potential. I am looking forward to how you think it is to work with Defy, as I hear it's kind of flashy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 beastud 14 Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Rick, Did you apply each sample 2x and what length of time did you give between applications? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Scott Paul 164 Report post Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) We will probably strip and restain the ipe' next spring, and applying Defy on the entire floor.Times are surely changing when I can get Rick to willingly apply a waterborne stain! :DDEFY Stain for Cedar, Hardwoods, Redwood, IPE, Mahogany, Ironwoods Edited December 1, 2009 by Scott Paul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Times are surely changing when I can get Rick to willingly apply a waterborne stain! :DDEFY Stain for Cedar, Hardwoods, Redwood, IPE, Mahogany, Ironwoods You're not kidding! :lol: Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 RPetry 564 Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Rick,Did you apply each sample 2x and what length of time did you give between applications? Russ, All three oils, A-C, WT, and RS were two applications into the ipe'. It has been over a year, but I think it was applied the same day, maybe 3 or 4 hours apart. I followed the manufacturer instructions for the Defy and BM waterbase stains. As I recall, both recommended a single application. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Check out this guy 'painttofish' covered porch restoration with Benjamin Moore Hardwood stain. He did this in August '08
Staining exotic hardwoods - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
Now check out his posts that he has just done recently and look at those boards over a year later!!!
ipe deck staining - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
Does this stain look this good because it's covered, or is there something to this product?
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