Look, Fenner, this is how poor my customers are

[plainpainter 217]

You see, Mr. Fenner, I told you my customers are freaking poor!!!@@@!!

This is probably considered a shed in your area!

[plainpainter 217]

LOL, this IMO is the greatest thread ever!!! :)

Like Topcoat, I never cease being amazed/amused with Dan. Dan, I think you decide on an opinion (like the appearance of your van doesn't matter) then work to try and prove that it holds true. The idea that you don't think your van appearance has any impact on your biz is lunacy. It might not be the *biggest* issue, but it IS affecting your sales.

Jon - I can't really get much more involved in this thread, as you don't want to understand. But tell me this, how am I being affected if my closing rates are between 60-70% on deck restorations, gutter cleanings, and house washings - and to boot I am never cheaper than the middle and usually the most expensive?

And to boot that van sold me a ton of work this year based upon a simple change in lettering. You guys want to continue thinking that your nice neat pristine trucks with your 'reserved' truck lettering sells you jobs. Well, two guys already have said that their lettering doesn't sell them work, and It's been my second biggest resource this year for leads.

I have come to an understanding of quite a lot this year. And now I know I can increase my leads for next year by 200-400% over this year, so with the same sales presentation and my closing rate - I'll be doing just fine.

You guys can continue thinking what you want to think, I hope my competitors think the same way. Because a lot of your assumptions on a 'professional' business presentation has no basis in fact. The majority of you guys are emotional, not me, because the thought of that van selling work defies everything you thought you knew.

All I know, is when this guy I know who does all the billboard signs in Fenway stadium told me how he gets a 14% Return on his mailings as opposed to you guys claiming 1%-4% and then closes them all - every technique he showed me is in total defiance to everything I have read on these boards in the last 4 years.

[topcoat 14]

Well, two guys already have said that their lettering doesn't sell them work, and It's been my second biggest resource this year for leads.

I have come to an understanding of quite a lot this year. And now I know I can increase my leads for next year by 200-400% over this year, so with the same sales presentation and my closing rate - I'll be doing just fine.

Dan

Again, I dont think you are basing your conclusions on enough of a sample. Your gross sales, based on many of your posts, are clearly well under $100k. Many of the guys here are talking about patterns that emerge in the $250-750k volume range, I would think. Different strategies come into play at different levels.

You are thinking and speaking in terms of "me me me" and that is fine. Just about anyone out here ought to be able to sustain a workload and decent margin to support 2000 man hours per year. Ramp that up to 3, 5, 10 guys and things are very different. Your marketing, estimating, selling, execution, cash flow all changes and for the better. So, no, I dont need my truck to make the phone ring. It is a visual manifestation as part of an integrated plan. It contributes within the overall marketing for sure, but there is no "hey I am behind you on Rt 7, you paint interiors?". I dont want that or need that. If my reality was $60k per year in sales, it would probably become more of a critical component.

I have bought our last 3 trucks new. Most recently in '07. If anyone here has a business that has established significant enough credit to purchase new, and at 0% in recent years, why wouldnt they take advantage of the opportunity to use someone elses money for free rather than dumping even $5k of their own money into a truck that will require immediate and ongoing maintenance?

Your van isnt that bad Dan. You said yourself earlier that you dont give a hoot, and I know that deep down inside you see the humorous side of it. I think its kind of cool, but it wouldnt fit with the image that I want my business to convey. Its quirky, which some people will appreciate, but as Rick mentioned, you have to really know your demographic and what their perceptions are.

For a middle of the road demographic, they will embrace your presentation, thinking "hey this guy is keeping his costs down and I am not paying for him to drive a sweet truck." Consumers of higher financial standing have a different take. They are more likely to think "this guy wants us to pay him $68/hr and this is the level of financial responsibility and reinvestment into his business that we would be supporting?" Your customers are investing in you. Show them something worth investing in.

[RPetry 564]

Daniel,

God bless you. As far as I can tell, you have used every excuse imaginable. Look cheap, be cheap. Act low, you are low.

You still, to this point, don't get it. Small contractors are no different than Tiffany's verses WallMart.

[neps.us 14]

Jon - I can't really get much more involved in this thread, as you don't want to understand. But tell me this, how am I being affected if my closing rates are between 60-70% on deck restorations, gutter cleanings, and house washings - and to boot I am never cheaper than the middle and usually the most expensive?

And to boot that van sold me a ton of work this year based upon a simple change in lettering. You guys want to continue thinking that your nice neat pristine trucks with your 'reserved' truck lettering sells you jobs. Well, two guys already have said that their lettering doesn't sell them work, and It's been my second biggest resource this year for leads.

I have come to an understanding of quite a lot this year. And now I know I can increase my leads for next year by 200-400% over this year, so with the same sales presentation and my closing rate - I'll be doing just fine.

You guys can continue thinking what you want to think, I hope my competitors think the same way. Because a lot of your assumptions on a 'professional' business presentation has no basis in fact. The majority of you guys are emotional, not me, because the thought of that van selling work defies everything you thought you knew.

All I know, is when this guy I know who does all the billboard signs in Fenway stadium told me how he gets a 14% Return on his mailings as opposed to you guys claiming 1%-4% and then closes them all - every technique he showed me is in total defiance to everything I have read on these boards in the last 4 years.

Congratulations! You must of sent out 44 mailers this year. You should grow next year and mail 52 and land a extra job.

If you seriously thought my Van was an 'image' problem, trust me I wouldn't want to do the work.

Trust me, the offer will not be there.

[neps.us 14]

Dan

Again, I dont think you are basing your conclusions on enough of a sample. Your gross sales, based on many of your posts, are clearly well under $100k. Many of the guys here are talking about patterns that emerge in the $250-750k volume range, I would think. Different strategies come into play at different levels.

You are thinking and speaking in terms of "me me me" and that is fine. Just about anyone out here ought to be able to sustain a workload and decent margin to support 2000 man hours per year. Ramp that up to 3, 5, 10 guys and things are very different. Your marketing, estimating, selling, execution, cash flow all changes and for the better. So, no, I dont need my truck to make the phone ring. It is a visual manifestation as part of an integrated plan. It contributes within the overall marketing for sure, but there is no "hey I am behind you on Rt 7, you paint interiors?". I dont want that or need that. If my reality was $60k per year in sales, it would probably become more of a critical component.

I have bought our last 3 trucks new. Most recently in '07. If anyone here has a business that has established significant enough credit to purchase new, and at 0% in recent years, why wouldnt they take advantage of the opportunity to use someone elses money for free rather than dumping even $5k of their own money into a truck that will require immediate and ongoing maintenance?

Your van isnt that bad Dan. You said yourself earlier that you dont give a hoot, and I know that deep down inside you see the humorous side of it. I think its kind of cool, but it wouldnt fit with the image that I want my business to convey. Its quirky, which some people will appreciate, but as Rick mentioned, you have to really know your demographic and what their perceptions are.

For a middle of the road demographic, they will embrace your presentation, thinking "hey this guy is keeping his costs down and I am not paying for him to drive a sweet truck." Consumers of higher financial standing have a different take. They are more likely to think "this guy wants us to pay him $68/hr and this is the level of financial responsibility and reinvestment into his business that we would be supporting?" Your customers are investing in you. Show them something worth investing in.

hammer meet nail

[plainpainter 217]

Daniel,

God bless you. As far as I can tell, you have used every excuse imaginable. Look cheap, be cheap. Act low, you are low.

You still, to this point, don't get it. Small contractors are no different than Tiffany's verses WallMart.

Rick, the only person being 'low' is you.

[plainpainter 217]

Congratulations! You must of sent out 44 mailers this year. You should grow next year and mail 52 and land a extra job.

Trust me, the offer will not be there.

Not even for your dog house, Chris?

[neps.us 14]

Not even for your dog house, Chris?

HAHAHAHA touche Dan!

[neps.us 14]

Why bother with the lettering. You could just roll a fresh coat of black on the side and get some stencils for a buck and paint new logo's every week or two. It would match your lawn sign in your other thread.

[plainpainter 217]

Dan

Your van isnt that bad Dan. You said yourself earlier that you dont give a hoot, and I know that deep down inside you see the humorous side of it. I think its kind of cool, but it wouldnt fit with the image that I want my business to convey. Its quirky, which some people will appreciate, but as Rick mentioned, you have to really know your demographic and what their perceptions are.

For a middle of the road demographic, they will embrace your presentation, thinking "hey this guy is keeping his costs down and I am not paying for him to drive a sweet truck." Consumers of higher financial standing have a different take. They are more likely to think "this guy wants us to pay him $68/hr and this is the level of financial responsibility and reinvestment into his business that we would be supporting?" Your customers are investing in you. Show them something worth investing in.

Scott - you are working with 'chi-chi' builders and designers, and perhaps in that milieu you want a more staid marketing and advertizing model. You want these big jobs - I want multiple $1,200-$1,800 where I am marketing directly to folks. It doesn't take a super wealthy person to want their house washed, gutters cleaned, and their very reasonably sized deck restored for $1,800. It just takes finding a bunch of these folks to make a good profit - guys who are super concerned about the newness of their truck kind of shock me. I don't think folks understand the $250,000 and higher crowd - they don't look at trucks, they look at how the service is going to benefit them.

[RPetry 564]

Rick, the only person being 'low' is you.

Daniel,

Care to elaborate on that statement?

[We Wash Concrete 64]

Scott I had thought about getting those Rockstar rims.. I liked the flat black look, but I figured it may look a little too aggressive.

Here's my truck. The lettering has got me quite a bit of work lately. I've only had it lettered for a couple of months.

Edited December 3, 2009 by We Wash Concrete

[neps.us 14]

Scott - you are working with 'chi-chi' builders and designers, and perhaps in that milieu you want a more staid marketing and advertizing model. You want these big jobs - I want multiple $1,200-$1,800 where I am marketing directly to folks. It doesn't take a super wealthy person to want their house washed, gutters cleaned, and their very reasonably sized deck restored for $1,800. It just takes finding a bunch of these folks to make a good profit - guys who are super concerned about the newness of their truck kind of shock me. I don't think folks understand the $250,000 and higher crowd - they don't look at trucks, they look at how the service is going to benefit them.

You dont get it Dan. This is about the total presentation of your company. I dont care if you want to do $3,800 per year or $3.8 mil per year. If your presenting yourself to a high end market and trying to get compensated accordingly you must have the total package. And that includes signs not writted on a scrap sheet of plywood painted on with a 2 inch brush.

What about your presentation? Do you shave every day? Wear a collared shirt? Wear whites ...no jeans? Work boots or ratty sneakers? Ear rings? Tatoo's on your face or head? Hair neat? Showered with soap and deodorant?

[plainpainter 217]

Why bother with the lettering. You could just roll a fresh coat of black on the side and get some stencils for a buck and paint new logo's every week or two. It would match your lawn sign in your other thread.

That picture was taken back in April '07 - last time I used that sign. I made that sign in April of '05, my first year out. That sign alone got me 30k in exterior painting sales that first year out. Something no professional marketing or advertizing has been able to equal since.

Guys like you, Chris, don't get it. So instead of just shaking your head and say to yourself 'well if it works for him - that's cool' No - you have to bash and insult. I chaulk that up to a guy like you is just plain frightened. Perhaps what you knew about marketing isn't quite right

I was on the right track with that sign way back then and didn't know it - well it's taken 5 years to realize what was really going on. Too bad I listened to that girlfriend of mine at the time reading the riot act about putting forth a 'professional' image, and how folks would perceive me as a hack - blah blah blah.

[plainpainter 217]

Daniel,

Care to elaborate on that statement?

Didn't you just accuse me of being low?

[plainpainter 217]

You dont get it Dan. This is about the total presentation of your company. I dont care if you want to do $3,800 per year or $3.8 mil per year. If your presenting yourself to a high end market and trying to get compensated accordingly you must have the total package. And that includes signs not writted on a scrap sheet of plywood painted on with a 2 inch brush.

What about your presentation? Do you shave every day? Wear a collared shirt? Wear whites ...no jeans? Work boots or ratty sneakers? Ear rings? Tatoo's on your face or head? Hair neat? Showered with soap and deodorant?

Seriously, Chris, what do you care about my 'presentation' at this point? I close at 60-70% doing the bulk of the jobs I do, what's your closing rates? And are you grossing $150-$200 man-hours? Painting is just a side thing I do at this point - not worth my time, I did an interior earlier this year - my hourly rate was like $90. But I pick and choose painting customers now - I no longer offer it to the main populace, not worth my time in general.

[topcoat 14]

Scott I had thought about getting those Rockstar rims.. I liked the flat black look, but I figured it may look a little too aggressive.

Here's my truck. The lettering has got me quite a bit of work lately. I've only had it lettered for a couple of months.

Nice truck!

[Celeste 341]

I didn't really want to poke myself into this thread, but there may be a need for the view of the "housewife" type here. As a woman/homeowner, I'll shed that spin on this.

I would NOT hire any contractor that carries little regard for his appearance, both personal & automotive.

If you or your vehicle look remotely scary - I'm not answering the door.

If you show for an estimate looking all neat & clean - that will factor in HOWEVER - if you show up after being contracted looking nasty - You're NOT starting the job.

If you have a creepy looking truck - and this is where differing opinions are - an old black windowless van is creepy to me - I'm not answering the door.

If you look like a "budget" company - I'm not going to assume that you're going to save me money - I'm going to assume that you can't manage yourself well enough to give a rat's tail about what I - me - your potential customer may be thinking of you and call it snobby or not, I am the checkwriter and it just matters how you handle my feelings and perceptions.

Just a little peek into the average female thinking.

Celeste

PS - We have black vehicles - but they're not creepy.

Edited December 3, 2009 by CarolinaProWash
Add

[plainpainter 217]

The women like me, Celeste, I always get a big smile from them - it's those italian good looks of mine.

[neps.us 14]

Guys like you, Chris, don't get it. So instead of just shaking your head and say to yourself 'well if it works for him - that's cool' No - you have to bash and insult. I chaulk that up to a guy like you is just plain frightened. Perhaps what you knew about marketing isn't quite right

QUOTE]

:D you are a funny little dude Dan. How does it work for you? All you do is ***** and moan about having no work. Something obviously isnt working Dan. You were on here posting at 9am today. Do you know where I was at 9am today??? I was pulling onto my third job of the morning checking on a crew.

If you want a business and marketing lesson hop in your A-Team van and come on down rt93 and I'd be more than happy to give you a lesson..... that is when I have the spare time.

[topcoat 14]

I didn't really want to poke myself into this thread, but there may be a need for the view of the "housewife" type here. As a woman/homeowner, I'll shed that spin on this.

I would NOT hire any contractor that carries little regard for his appearance, both personal & automotive.

If you or your vehicle look remotely scary - I'm not answering the door.

If you show for an estimate looking all neat & clean - that will factor in HOWEVER - if you show up after being contracted looking nasty - You're NOT starting the job.

If you have a creepy looking truck - and this is where differing opinions are - an old black windowless van is creepy to me - I'm not answering the door.

If you look like a "budget" company - I'm not going to assume that you're going to save me money - I'm going to assume that you can't manage yourself well enough to give a rat's tail about what I - me - your potential customer may be thinking of you and call it snobby or not, I am the checkwriter and it just matters how you handle my feelings and perceptions.

Just a little peek into the average female thinking.

Celeste

PS - We have black vehicles - but they're not creepy.

When I go to an estimate, I am sizing up the customer as much as they are sizing me up. Would they be a good person to deal with in a financial transaction? Can they afford my service? Do they seem to be honest and reasonable in what they are seeking from me? Are they listening to me as much as I am listening to them? It is a two way street. I think Dan is focused on one side of the relationship and holds some preconceived notions based on a microcosm that is flawed, and people detect this on the first meeting.

What you are describing fits with my experience in dealing with people. And often, it is the female in the house who is requesting the estimate and writing the check.

[RPetry 564]

Daniel said:

...

Too bad I listened to that girlfriend of mine at the time reading the riot act about putting forth a 'professional' image, and how folks would perceive me as a hack - blah blah blah. ...

Your girlfriend had a lot more sense than you.

Never mind, this is fruitless. Daniel change direction, in marketing, mindset, presentation, sales, and image.

Business is available and out there. No doubt, it can be tough, but focus on high demographics instead of shotgun advertising.

Do exceptional work, at a very good profit margin, and it will come back in the future in spades.

[topcoat 14]

Scott - you are working with 'chi-chi' builders and designers, and perhaps in that milieu you want a more staid marketing and advertizing model. You want these big jobs - I want multiple $1,200-$1,800 where I am marketing directly to folks. It doesn't take a super wealthy person to want their house washed, gutters cleaned, and their very reasonably sized deck restored for $1,800. It just takes finding a bunch of these folks to make a good profit - guys who are super concerned about the newness of their truck kind of shock me. I don't think folks understand the $250,000 and higher crowd - they don't look at trucks, they look at how the service is going to benefit them.

Dan

People above $250k consider it a given that the service is going to benefit them. What they are more concerned about is the people who they enter into financial transactions and business relationships with, as well as to whom they give access to their property. First impressions are important. The first thing they see is your truck pulling in, and you getting out.

[plainpainter 217]

Again people, what are your closing rates? I looked at my numbers for the year, and I have been closing at the 60-70% this year - I doubt anyone beats that without being much much cheaper.

[Celeste 341]

When I go to an estimate, I am sizing up the customer as much as they are sizing me up. Would they be a good person to deal with in a financial transaction? Can they afford my service? Do they seem to be honest and reasonable in what they are seeking from me? Are they listening to me as much as I am listening to them? It is a two way street. I think Dan is focused on one side of the relationship and holds some preconceived notions based on a microcosm that is flawed, and people detect this on the first meeting.

What you are describing fits with my experience in dealing with people. And often, it is the female in the house who is requesting the estimate and writing the check.

I love it - we actually do a good bit of "interviewing our potential customer" over the phone :) It's a wonderful thing to be able to pick your customers rather than panic over them not picking you!

Celeste