PTP deck to refinish - A few questions

[spotco2 15]

First off let me start out saying that this site is amazing! I love reading forums where professional people actually try to help others with finding solutions to problems. I have been reading for hours a day here researching products and procedures and learning that there is so much more to doing what y'all do than I ever imagined. I love learning about new careers and what people actually have to do in order to do their jobs correctly and professionally and from what I can tell some of y'all work your tails off out there :) I never imagined there was so much chemistry involved in simply cleaning. Obviously I've been doing it wrong.

Now, here's my project. I have a pressure treated pine deck that I built 4 years ago. The bands and rails are all painted white and the decking and steps were all sanded and finished with Woodsman VWUC Clear Sealer & Protector. My hot tub was delivered and set up BEFORE I had a chance to finish that area. The finish started to deteriorate the next summer so everything was sanded and another coating of Woodsman was applied. Again it lasted a year. Next year same issue so I sanded and applied Flood CWF-UV with Natural Tone. This lasted about as long as the previous and the wood is turning gray and the finish is spotty in places but most appears to be gone.

Now for the fun part. I sold the hot tub and plan on enclosing that section of deck. Where the tub was looks like brand new boards (they were never even sanded before the tub was installed) and all around it has been sun bleached for 4 years. Is there any chance this will ever blend?

The deck gets full sun from around 9am until about an hour before sundown each day and is not covered. I would like to keep a light color on the wood since darker colors tend to get hotter (and we don't need hotter) and besides, I like light color on wood and I really like to be able to see the wood grain.

I have a 2600 psi pressure washer that is set up to downstream. I have sanders. I have sprayers. I have A LOT of spare time (business is slow). I have 1200 sqft of decking to play with. I am comfortable with using chemicals.

From reading here it appears that I could use something like a EFC-38 followed by Citralic for stripping the old finish off the wood and brightening the wood back up followed by sanding. My main concern with this is how will that effect the pained bands on the deck?

To finish I would like to stay with something that is not solid. I would like to stay rather light (TWP Cedartone, Wood-Tux Warm Honey Gold, Ready Seal Light Brown or Natural Cedar) but how long will that last in the sun?

Sorry for such a long post. Here are some pics so that you can see what I am looking at.

Where the hot tub was.

Sun beaten edge

[spotco2 15]

You can see where some of the finish here is worn and spotted

Edited August 5, 2010 by spotco2

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Welcome to TGS! Glad you are enjoying the site. We try to be helpful.

I believe that if you sand the entire floor well enough, you can get to even and should be able to accomplish your goal with little noticeable difference. However I do not know how thorough your sanding skills are.

Strip the deck.

Sand the entire deck (but first counter sink the nails if that is how the boards are attached)

Keep at it until all of the wood looks the same. When you think you have done this.....

Wet the deck just to look and see if you have a hot tub outline. The water will tell you.

If it is still there, let the deck dry and try again.

At some point you need to realize that you may be left with some outline.

I strongly suggest you look into Armstrong Clark sealers. We love them, and of those you listed the only one we like is TWP.

Beth

p.s. when sanding always sand the entire board, do not spot sand or you will have a spotted deck. Consider renting a floor sander, this is not a job to use a palm sander on.

[spotco2 15]

Thank you for the reply.

So the EFC-38 followed by Citralic will take the CWF off...correct? Just wanting confirmation before placing an order. Is this going to strip the paint from the bands also? If so, I just need to wait on painting them until after the decking is finished.

The boards are screwed down and I do have a floor sander that I can use. I can not imagine doing something this size with a palm sander. You would be there for days, and days, and days...

[spotco2 15]

So it's been a few days and I have had time to play with some differnt strippers and have a couple of questions.

I ordered EFC-38 and while waiting on it to arrive I picked up a gallon of Flood stripper (sodium hydroxide based). I applied it to a section with a sprayer, let it dwell for 30 minutes, scrubbing with a stiff bristle brush and keeping the surface wet. After 30 minutes I used a 40° tip and cold water to rinse. Some of the finish was removed but not all so I applied a second coat with the same results. I applied the last of the gallon with the same results.

I picked up a gallon of ZEP concentrated stripper (sodium hydroxide based) and mixed 7:1 and applied with the same procedure as above with same results. I mixed stronger several timed until I was at 2:1 and still have some sealer on the boards (but not nearly as much).

I finally got the EFC-38 in and mixed it 2/3 cup to 1 gallon of hot water. I was excited to see more sealer coming off the boards as I scrubbed and rinsed, but there are still some boards that have a good bit of sealer on them. I have applied 5 more coats of EFC-38 increasing the mixture each time (constantly scrubbing and making sure everything stays wet) and there is still some sealer on some boards.

I have HD-80 coming but it probably will not arive until Tuesday evening.

I have been working on a small section of deck that is only about 10x12 and have A LOT more deck to go. I have enjoyed working on this and learning as I go but I feel like I am missing something here. Why can I not get the sealer off these boards?

I know that I can sand it, but as strange as it sounds, I want to strip it the right way.

Am I just expecting to much out of the chemicals? Will I ever get all of the sealer off of the boards with chemicals or should I be expecting to have to sand some of the finish off?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You are a novice. It's that simple. Personally, I would have used a boosted HD-80. None of the things you mentioned alone would yield the result you want if the CWF is a hybrid (many are these days).

You are getting the results I would have expected. Increase the dwell time by 15 minutes, do a scratch test on a vertical surface to check to see if it is ready, and keep the stripper moist with more product (not water) while it is dwelling.

Good luck. Now you know why people hire this kind of job out.

Beth :groovy3:

[spotco2 15]

Of course I'm a novice and that's why I was asking questions and trying to learn. Please don't forget that we were all novices at some point and no a single person here came from the womb with full knowledge of how to do much of anything. I am just trying to learn. Who knows, maybe I'm really twisted in the head and might enjoy doing the work. Heck I might even change careers.

I've read topic after topic after topic here about stripping CWF and Beth n Rod always preach using EFC-38 and how fantastic of a job it does. I think I even asked the question to confirm if it would work in my situation and I was completely ignored. I just assumed everyone was busy so I just tried it.

I'll have HD-80 in a couple of days. What would you consider boosting it with? Polypropolene glycol? 633AD?

So was I just expecting to much of my strippers? Were my hopes to high that they might actually remove everything?

You know what Beth, I actually considered hiring this out. I called the guys that taped a business card on my mailbox a couple of weeks ago that advertised pressure washing. They were supposed to come give me a price but never showed.

I had one of my rental houses painted and had the painter come look at it and he suggested that we use bleach and a pressure washer and he could apply whatever color I picked out from Home Depot (which made no sense because he uses SW paint). For $20 per hour, he would make it look new again.

Someone else suggested 2Guys & a Pressure Washer so I gave them a call. They seemed nice and showed up with their equipment when they came for the estimate. They suggested using Zep concrete cleaner heated up with chlorine. I asked if that would cut the sealer and they said of course it would and they could run it up to 3600 psi to make sure it got down to the wood. They also recommended Thompsons Water Seal to go back down when they finished and if we wanted to add some color, they could put a layer of stain under the Thompsons but not on top of it. 1200 sq ft was going to cost me $500 cash for labor and material. Half was due up front so they could go to Home Depot and buy the stuff.

There is a guy in town that cleans heavy equipment and farm equipment with a very nice heated set up. I talked to him. He said I could use his stuff if I wanted on the weekend but he don't do decks. Another guy does garbage trucks and landscapes, but no decks.

I spoke with several other home owners that I knew had their decks and porches refinished recently and they all had the same experiences I did trying to find someone. Just pick out the cleanest looking one that you don't mind being there when you're not and let them bleach it and stain it.

That's about the extent of people in my county or the next closest 2 counties that I can find that pressure cleans. I have seriously given some thought to learning a little more about this and buying some equipment.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

EFC-38 is a cleaner more that a stripper and although it has some stripping capabilities (contains sodium metasilicate), I would not use it on CWF to strip it off. HD-80 boosted with the 633, yes. As the make-up of sealers and stains has changed so too have the removal chemicals. EFC is not really a contender anymore on many things, since so many are hybrids.

Now I will also say you need a respirator and gloves and PVC attire to use that stuff.... Same with using the acid to neutralize. The last ting you want is to get a lung full of vapor and end up in the hospital.

And no, none of us starts with all the knowledge we need, and in my post was some very useful advice....increase the dwell time, and perform the scratch test on a vertical surface before you wash. Keep the area you are stripping moist with more stripper (not water) and don't let it dry out when it is trying to work.

Beth

p.s. I know an excellent contractor in Ellijay, but do not know how far from you that is. I would be glad to introduce you.

[spotco2 15]

How caustic is just the HD-80 without the boosters? Would it still strip the sealers but not my skin making me look like a zombie from the Apocalypse or at least the soles of my boots?

It's 100+ here in the full sun and yellow britches and gloves are not my first choice of attire in this weather. I don't mind a respirator as I wore one daily for years working as a painter.

Ellijay is a few hours from the house.

Thanks for the reply.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The HD-80 alone will eat your flesh if you get it on the skin and do not treat it right away. I have to urge you to protect yourself. It may work if you don't boost it, it may not. It's worth trying.

• Keep a gallon of vinegar handy when you are working with a caustic like HD-80. If you get any stripper on you pour the vinegar directly over the area liberally. It will help to neutralize it and stop the burning.
  

• Cover your eyes.(goggles)
  

• Wear a respirator or mask (properly rated for chemical use).
  

• Wear gloves.(rubber - rated for chemicals)
  

• PVC is optional but DO NOT wear full length blue jeans, if they get soaked the area that will burn you will also increase.
  

I have seen chemical burns on skin and in eyes. It is not something you want to mess with unprepared. Not trying to scare you, just want to you to be safe at the end of your project. It's better than a trip to the ER.

For your purposes, I would apply it with a pump up sprayer. Pump ups put vapor into the air. Thus, the above are all suggested.

Beth

[Rick2 42]

HD-80 is a great chemical but it wil burn you quickly. These pictures are of me several years ago when I got a mist of HD80 on my back, chest and face. A few hours after these pictures were taken the burns beacme much worse. I can't stress enough how careful you must be with this product.

[spotco2 15]

That looks pretty nasty Rick2.

They should put warning pics like that on the label.

Thanks for sharing.