House Wash mix and things to be aware of!

[metcalfec 14]

Hello everyone,

I have been doing much reading about house wash mixes and feel that my starting point will be 2gal. 6%SH + 8oz. Simple Cherry + 3gal. water and some dawn dish soap. I will also be running SO Soft in my rinse water. My question is, are there any surfaces I need to be aware of and should I worry about colours fading because of the SH. I have a 4gpm cold pw and will be using a M-5 xjet with the red proportioner.

I know I need to keep plants watered well, I am specifically asking if there are any building materials that this mix will cause damage or bleach the color of ie. stucco, dryvit, aluminum/vinyl siding,wood etc.

Also if I can add to your postings regarding the gutters, for those who mix there gutter zap in a 5er and apply with a brush I thought to prevent dripping and damage to underliying materials I would use a sponge mop and with one pail of gutter zap and another pail of water to rinse my sponge inbetween each use. I cleaned a rubber roof on an rv last season and this was the method used to prevent the cleaner from running down the sides of the rv which in turn causes black streaks. The sponge holds in the chemical with no dripping if used properly. Just a thought and hopefully good advice!

Chris

[FullBlast 14]

Hello and welcome.

I use a xjet but I don't use any proportioner, so it is a little hard for me to know just how your mix will be compared to my setup. But that mixture does sound like it would be about right considering the propotioner.

I haven't had much trouble with it affecting other surfaces, except a few front doors. It seems to me that a maroon front door is the worst. I have had it tend to streak a little. Remember, Just rinse and rinse, and you should be good.

[Doug Rucker 31]

Hello everyone,

I have been doing much reading about house wash mixes and feel that my starting point will be 2gal. 6%SH + 8oz. Simple Cherry + 3gal. water and some dawn dish soap. I will also be running SO Soft in my rinse water. My question is, are there any surfaces I need to be aware of and should I worry about colours fading because of the SH. I have a 4gpm cold pw and will be using a M-5 xjet with the red proportioner.

I know I need to keep plants watered well, I am specifically asking if there are any building materials that this mix will cause damage or bleach the color of ie. stucco, dryvit, aluminum/vinyl siding,wood etc.

Also if I can add to your postings regarding the gutters, for those who mix there gutter zap in a 5er and apply with a brush I thought to prevent dripping and damage to underliying materials I would use a sponge mop and with one pail of gutter zap and another pail of water to rinse my sponge inbetween each use. I cleaned a rubber roof on an rv last season and this was the method used to prevent the cleaner from running down the sides of the rv which in turn causes black streaks. The sponge holds in the chemical with no dripping if used properly. Just a thought and hopefully good advice!

Chris

I use 2 gallon water and 2 gal bleach. Only go 3 gal bleach if it is really really heavy mold mldew build up. Also get rid of the proportioner, and as Full Blast said, make sure you rinse dark surfaces quickly and muchly.

[Curb Appeal 14]

For me, 2 gal of 6% SH would be too weak. That's equivalent to 1 gal of 12%. In a 5gal bucket, I usually use 2-2.5 gal 12% SH but I use a downstreamer with a feeder pump.

Back when I used an X-Jet, I used 2.5 gal of 12% SH per 5'er as well. A couple of times I was forced to use 6% SH and I just used it full strength, no mixing with water.

Oh, and since you're using an X-Jet, try 10oz. of simple cherry.

[NateF 14]

Pre-wet the surfaces in question such as the front doors like mentioned above. I also pre-wet all glass. That should help eliminate the streaking. Not trying to start another debate because I have used both but you might want to look into downstreaming. In my opinion its a lot easier to leave the tank of chems on the trailer and just switch nozzles to go from soap to rinse and high to low. I use a 4 way nozzle holder that bob at pressure tek sells. That way all your nozzles are right there and they don't get lost.

[WashRite 14]

I use a hi-lo fan nozzle for downstreaming. No need to change tips after soaping or rinsing. Simply pull the nozzle out and begin soaping up to 30-35 feet and when you are finished soaping pull the nozzle in and begin rinsing. Twist the nozzle to the fan width desired. I can't imagine using any other tip for house washing. Very simple and inexpensive.

[metcalfec 14]

Thanks for the advice, I looked into downstreaming but have not been able to find the attachments, or any of the equipment you have mention, I like the idea of both and did alot of research, reason I decided to go with the x-jet was simply because it was easy to find and seems very easy to use. Downstreaming on the other hand like I said I can't find anything that I would need to set it up! I looked at Sun Brite and Pressure Tek. If anyone can give me a list of attachments and tools etc. for downstreaming I would like to have both at my disposal.

Chris

[Curb Appeal 14]

Envirospec.com has a DS injector that can't be beat. The super suds sucker! Give them a call and they'll hook you up.

[Ace Painting 14]

I just bought one from Bob at PressureTek today.

[Shawn F. 14]

http://www.pressuretek.com/hilowvano.html

Is this the nozzle you guys are talking about that will shoot up to 35 feet to soap and then rinse by just turning it?

If so then I have GOT to try it out compared to the long lance wand I am using...

[WashRite 14]

It looks like a version of the nozzle I am talking about. I am sure there are several different manufacturer's. Just be sure this nozzle also twists creating a spray fan from 0-65 degrees or something similar. Also, match it to your pump.

[Shawn F. 14]

Great, thanks for the info! I will give Pressure Tek a call today and ask them which nozzle I need for my particular pump... Cant wait to give this thing a try next week.

[go green pressure washing 14]

Any one using a lader saver and if so what are the pros and cons?

[Doug Rucker 31]

Yes, I use the ladder save daily. I have yet to find any cons. Love it. Got mine when they first came out several years ago and have been using the same one since. I think they cost about 50$ and and to me they are worth more than their weight in gold.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I have seen the effects of washers in my area who have (according to the customers) used only bleach when performing a house wash.

The results have been chalky siding. My guess is due to lack of sufficient rinsing.

Many will argue to the effectiveness of their process vs others and say rinsing well is enough,

but I want each of you who contend this to do an experiment:

Take your hand and dip it into your solution and then proceed to rinse it off.

Time how long it takes to get the slipperiness to stop and you get finger tack.

Now, smell your hand. Still smells like bleach doesn't it!?!?

Stick your hand back into the rinse water stream and rub your fingers together, they will feel slippery again even though you just spent a few minutes rinsing them.

This is to illustrate the fact that bleach in the concentrations many are using is going to require a lot more time than they have probably spent on their customers house rinsing.

Three things are missing from an effective house wash solution that just uses bleach alone.

1. A Surfactant; this helps to lift the pollutants and keep them from re-adhering to the surface. Detergents have surfactants in their formulations.

2. An alkaline builder (a degreaser additive containing 1 or more of the following: tsp, butoxyethenol, sodium hydroxide); these help increase the alkalinity range meaning it will react to more surface pollutants than just bleach alone. Remember, high alkalinity is not the answer, range of alkalinity is.

3. A rinse aid; this helps to ensure cleaner rinsing and requires much less time to rinse to achieve the same neutral surface so that once you leave, there is nothing left to become active again in the next dew or rain cycle and continue to eat away at the surface of the clients home.

A 4th ingredient which some have mentioned is a foaming agent. This helps to make your solution more effective cause it holds it on the surface longer and takes longer to dry on warmer days.

I tote around a 5 gallon container which is completely closed except for a vent to allow air in while the solution is being drawn out. In that container is 3-1/2 gal of water to start. 1/3 gal of 6% bleach, 1 scoop of a detergent (agitate to completely dissolve powder) , 8-16 ounces of a liquid degreaser concentrate. 4-6 oz. of a foaming agent. 2-4 oz of a rinse agent. Then the container is topped off with water to the fill mark.

This solution is injected with an m-5 w/o any proportioners at 115* for vinyl siding, 130* for aluminum, E.I.F.S./Dryvit/Stucco/Hardiplank or other cementatious siding materials.

This mix also works fine for most stains on gutters and can be applied at the same time. Brushing is necessary to remove electrostatic bonded asphalt material streaks. (you know these, vertical streaking that laughs at your high bleach content mix)

For light mildew/algae, injecting and rinsing is sufficient. For heavier growth, subsequent application(s) may be necessary with brushing to help remove carbon deposits as well.

Rinse until you no longer see any bubbles generated by the cascading water and do the finger test. slippery skin=chemical still present, tacky skin=clean.

Have fun!

Rod!~

Edited March 4, 2011 by Beth n Rod

[metcalfec 14]

I like the idea of using less bleach. I will use this formula and build from there thanks! Can you clarify a few things for me,

1. You say 1 scoop of detergent, I plan on using 8-12 ounces of Simple Cherry would that be enough?

2. I was going to use Dawn dish soap, would this act as both a liquid degreaser and foaming agent. If not could you give me a couple of examples of what I would need?

3. What exactly do you mean when you say 115* and 130*? Don't quite have all the lingo down but I am getting there.

Thanks

Chris

[metcalfec 14]

Rod, never mind question 2 I found some good supplies on my friend Tracy's web-site (Sunbrite Suppy). Question 1 + 3 though really have me stumped.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sorry for the delay, been busy getting ready for the season.

1. yes simple cherry works, used it before but I now use another detergent from ACR Products, but I add a foaming agent with the cherry scent and get the same masking of bleach.

3. 115*-130* (*=degrees, since the keyboard does not have the symbol).

Rod!~

[Paul Kassander 26]

I prefer the downstream method myself. The GP Hi Lo nozzle is good but I have found with trapped pressure unloaders if you do not pull them back all the way and seat them fully you can blow out the seals. I cave been trying a new Hi-Lo nozzle that is actually a little smaller and less expensive for a few weeks. So far I have been happy with its durability, we will see how it holds up.

[810F250 14]

I have seen the effects of washers in my area who have (according to the customers) used only bleach when performing a house wash.

The results have been chalky siding. My guess is due to lack of sufficient rinsing.

Many will argue to the effectiveness of their process vs others and say rinsing well is enough,

but I want each of you who contend this to do an experiment:

Take your hand and dip it into your solution and then proceed to rinse it off.

Time how long it takes to get the slipperiness to stop and you get finger tack.

Now, smell your hand. Still smells like bleach doesn't it!?!?

Stick your hand back into the rinse water stream and rub your fingers together, they will feel slippery again even though you just spent a few minutes rinsing them.

This is to illustrate the fact that bleach in the concentrations many are using is going to require a lot more time than they have probably spent on their customers house rinsing.

Three things are missing from an effective house wash solution that just uses bleach alone.

1. A Surfactant; this helps to lift the pollutants and keep them from re-adhering to the surface. Detergents have surfactants in their formulations.

2. An alkaline builder (a degreaser additive containing 1 or more of the following: tsp, butoxyethenol, sodium hydroxide); these help increase the alkalinity range meaning it will react to more surface pollutants than just bleach alone. Remember, high alkalinity is not the answer, range of alkalinity is.

3. A rinse aid; this helps to ensure cleaner rinsing and requires much less time to rinse to achieve the same neutral surface so that once you leave, there is nothing left to become active again in the next dew or rain cycle and continue to eat away at the surface of the clients home.

A 4th ingredient which some have mentioned is a foaming agent. This helps to make your solution more effective cause it holds it on the surface longer and takes longer to dry on warmer days.

I tote around a 5 gallon container which is completely closed except for a vent to allow air in while the solution is being drawn out. In that container is 3-1/2 gal of water to start. 1/3 gal of 6% bleach, 1 scoop of a detergent (agitate to completely dissolve powder) , 8-16 ounces of a liquid degreaser concentrate. 4-6 oz. of a foaming agent. 2-4 oz of a rinse agent. Then the container is topped off with water to the fill mark.

This solution is injected with an m-5 w/o any proportioners at 115* for vinyl siding, 130* for aluminum, E.I.F.S./Dryvit/Stucco/Hardiplank or other cementatious siding materials.

This mix also works fine for most stains on gutters and can be applied at the same time. Brushing is necessary to remove electrostatic bonded asphalt material streaks. (you know these, vertical streaking that laughs at your high bleach content mix)

For light mildew/algae, injecting and rinsing is sufficient. For heavier growth, subsequent application(s) may be necessary with brushing to help remove carbon deposits as well.

Rinse until you no longer see any bubbles generated by the cascading water and do the finger test. slippery skin=chemical still present, tacky skin=clean.

Have fun!

Rod!~

Nice write up Rod.

Using less bleach to achieve a superior clean is great. Thats one of the lowest concentrations I have heard of in house washing.

Did you first start out using this current quantity of bleach for house washing? If not what was it?

I believe that bleach between fingers is more difficult to be rinsed because of bleach's reaction with body oils which produce soaps.

I think on hard surfaces that a bleach solution rinses much quicker by comparison.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Did you first start out using this current quantity of bleach for house washing? If not what was it?

That is a good question.

As many others who did not have much information to draw from when starting up, I used to downstream 25%-bleach to 75% water with some dish soap to start. But I was using cold water as well and the rinsing took forever.Hard surfaces require just as much rinsing as fingers due to the nature of bleach itself.

I did some research and found that bleach as an oxidizer destroys paints and pigments resulting in them becoming chalky and faded. Before we replaced our Aluminum siding with vinyl, we had an issue under the eave (an overhang design of the house between first and second stories.).

The issue was that there was rust on the siding under the eave for about a foot or so.

Come to find out, it was from incomplete rinsing after being washed with bleach. The moisture from dew and humidity would reactivate this section since it was not rinsed away from regular exposure to rain.

I started looking into vinyl siding mfr's recommendations for cleaning siding and came up with the solution that once injected onto the siding was approximately as strong as any mild degreaser formulation plus bleach in the ratios necessary to kill mold/mildew and algae.

After some tweaking, I came up with the formulation in this thread and have had great success with it.

Rod!~

[810F250 14]

Thanks Rod.

Bleach is definitely a strong oxidizer.

Rust inhibitors is an important difference between clorox outdoor and clorox bleach regular for house washing/metal surfaces use.

The formulation of clorox clean up has a more comprehensive ingredient mixture for house washing, its close to the four key elements that you mentioned in your current mix.

Edited March 12, 2011 by 810F250

[Shawn F. 14]

Rod, I got your PM and want to thank you for the information on your solution you use. I need to give it a try because today I used 6% bleach on a home and used Pressure Teks ratio for Simple Cherry (they say 12.5% SH so I used double of 6%) and man did the cost kill me. Until I can find a place locally that sells 12.5% SH for under $2 a gallon I will be paying out the butt on bleach. I probably spent about $65 on materials today on one house, a small 2 car shop and a small work trailer about 10 feet long.

If I keep up with spending $60-$75 on materials like I've been then I am going to put myself out of business, I've got to fix this ASAP!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You are welcome, but keep in mind, I don't use anything over 6% bleach that I buy at HD or Lowes.

1. the mix works well enough at the concentration

2. I can't justify keeping 12% on hand in the amounts necessary to justify the savings.

3. One source I bought from supposedly had 12% bleach but believe it or not, I ended up using almost 3X as much to get the same results that I get with box store bleach. Go figure.

No savings there.

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rod, I got your PM and want to thank you for the information on your solution you use. I need to give it a try because today I used 6% bleach on a home and used Pressure Teks ratio for Simple Cherry (they say 12.5% SH so I used double of 6%) and man did the cost kill me. Until I can find a place locally that sells 12.5% SH for under $2 a gallon I will be paying out the butt on bleach. I probably spent about $65 on materials today on one house, a small 2 car shop and a small work trailer about 10 feet long.

If I keep up with spending $60-$75 on materials like I've been then I am going to put myself out of business, I've got to fix this ASAP!

Maybe....and don't beat me up for saying this...you need to raise your prices?

Beth :groovy3:

[Shawn F. 14]

You may be right. I am pretty new to this and still learning and need to figure out how to price things up. I am trying to stick somewhat close to what everyone else is charging but still working out the kinks. I mostly did/do automotive detailing and as for pricing on those kinds of things and paint and body work, I have that down very well but the pressure washing thing is a COMPLETELY different deal so it's like starting all over again.

Some people say they charge by the square foot of a home and some are just charging based on the simplicity of the house design and how many floors the home has, etc.