PWNA Executive Director Resigns – Message from Eric Clark, President of PWNA

[Robert Hinderliter 64]

May 20, 2011

From Eric Clark, President of PWNA

I want to announce to the power washing community that Mike Hilborn has resigned as Executive Director of the PWNA. His resignation is in response to a post that he made Monday, May 16th. Within 12 hours of his post, Mike recognized his very poor judgment and had the post taken down first thing Tuesday morning, replacing it with an apology. Tuesday evening Mike called me and communicated his great remorse and submitted his resignation. He took full responsibility for his actions and said that his actions were his own and that they reflected poorly on the PWNA, thus requiring he resign as Executive Director.

The PWNA does not, and cannot condone this type of action. This episode is an embarrassment to our organization, and to every Power Wash Contract Cleaner; the negative behavior between fellow contractors needs to stop. This type of action reflects negatively upon the entire Power Wash Industry and gives our customers the perception that Power Washing Contract Cleaners are uneducated and not Professionals similar to Plumbers, Auto Mechanics, Painters, or other Trades.

Negativity breeds negativity, and nobody wins; every contract cleaner loses status as a Professional Contractor every time this type of action happens in public. Our Public Perception will largely now be determined by how this industry acts as a whole on the Internet, and particularly on the Industry Bulletin Boards. Every time you make a Negative Post you lower the Public Status of the Entire Power Wash Industry, and confirm that we are not Professionals! Our Profession will be treated exactly how we act as a whole.

Mike Hilborn has been a major part of the PWNA and has taken us to greater heights by volunteering his personal time and money to attend many contractor events, creating and teaching Certification courses, assembling trade shows, and many other great pieces of our organization. His Emotions overcame his Better Judgment temporarily resulting in the loss of a key leader in our industry. I feel it’s a shame.

Again, the PWNA does not condone this type of behavior.

I feel there is a lesson to be learned by everyone involved; act accordingly to how you want to be perceived, are we Professionals or Not?

Thank you,

Eric Clark

PWNA President

[tonyshelton 112]

Robert, with all due respect, I'd like to ask for a clarification. What did the board consider out of line, the post or the investigation of a member in that manner?

[Robert Hinderliter 64]

Sorry, I am just the messenger; I do not know the answer to that question.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Tony,

I have spoken to a couple of BOD members, and the answer from what I can tell from conversations, is all of the above. None of it has been acceptable.

Beth

[tonyshelton 112]

So no other board members had any involvement in this other than Mike? No one encouraged him or knew what he was doing and and failed to tell him it was inappropriate?

The sad thing about this whole thing is if Mike hadn't made that post I or Ron could have complained about it the "investigation" till we were blue in the face and no one would have believed us. As of last night some were still claiming I edited the post to make Mike look bad! Good grief! I've been on these boards for three years now and while I do have a hot temper and I'm a bit of a renegade I'm not a liar.

Ron, (a private individual - not an elected board member) sometimes comes up with some crazy ideas when he's mad about something. (Much like the way Mike was mad about Ron when he set off on this expedition) But many times Ron is stopped by me or another of his friends who let him know that what he is about to do is inappropriate. It's not easy to see one's actions in context when one is angry. Sometimes it takes cooler heads to talk sense into a person. (myself included and many times Ron has talked me out of doing something stupid myself when I'm mad) It doesn't always work, but a friend would let the other person know they are about to make a mistake.

So I ask again. Are there any board members who knew what Mike was doing and encouraged that kind of act on a PWNA member who are willing to step up, identify themselves, so we can at least move on knowing their character so we can judge our associations accurately in the future?

Or maybe it doesn't matter to anyone but me. If I'm the only one who cares about this I'll just shut up and go away quietly.

EDIT: Mike emailed me and informed me he was going to make the post once he had permission from the board. I emailed him back and encouraged him to post the whole thing unedited. It seemed appropriate that if he was going to share that information with the board and if people were going to taunt Ron about the "findings" then at least EVERYONE should know about it and "judge for themselves". The deed had already been done. I had already confronted Mike about it and tried to explain that he was wrong and that the whole thing was inappropriate but he was still going around spreading the misinformation. If anyone thinks I was wrong for telling him to post it feel free to let me know. I thought it would be better to have it out in the open rather than just going around behind Ron's back and spreading untruths.

Edited May 20, 2011 by tonyshelton

[Doug Rucker 31]

May 20, 2011

From Eric Clark, President of PWNA

I want to announce to the power washing community that Mike Hilborn has resigned as Executive Director of the PWNA. His resignation is in response to a post that he made Monday, May 16th. Within 12 hours of his post, Mike recognized his very poor judgment and had the post taken down first thing Tuesday morning, replacing it with an apology. Tuesday evening Mike called me and communicated his great remorse and submitted his resignation. He took full responsibility for his actions and said that his actions were his own and that they reflected poorly on the PWNA, thus requiring he resign as Executive Director.

The PWNA does not, and cannot condone this type of action. This episode is an embarrassment to our organization, and to every Power Wash Contract Cleaner; the negative behavior between fellow contractors needs to stop. This type of action reflects negatively upon the entire Power Wash Industry and gives our customers the perception that Power Washing Contract Cleaners are uneducated and not Professionals similar to Plumbers, Auto Mechanics, Painters, or other Trades.

Negativity breeds negativity, and nobody wins; every contract cleaner loses status as a Professional Contractor every time this type of action happens in public. Our Public Perception will largely now be determined by how this industry acts as a whole on the Internet, and particularly on the Industry Bulletin Boards. Every time you make a Negative Post you lower the Public Status of the Entire Power Wash Industry, and confirm that we are not Professionals! Our Profession will be treated exactly how we act as a whole.

Mike Hilborn has been a major part of the PWNA and has taken us to greater heights by volunteering his personal time and money to attend many contractor events, creating and teaching Certification courses, assembling trade shows, and many other great pieces of our organization. His Emotions overcame his Better Judgment temporarily resulting in the loss of a key leader in our industry. I feel it’s a shame.

Again, the PWNA does not condone this type of behavior.

I feel there is a lesson to be learned by everyone involved; act accordingly to how you want to be perceived, are we Professionals or Not?

Thank you,

Eric Clark

PWNA President

An Open Letter to the PWNA

This is in response to the letter posted on TGS announcing the resignation of Mike Hilborn.

I have read the letter on TGS announcing the resignation of Mike Hilborn and am responding as a contractor in the Pressure Washing Industry as I am not a member of the PWNA nor do I have plans to be. The letter announcing the resignation re-enforces why I will probably never ever be a member of the PWNA.

The announcement should have ended in paragraph two with the words “The PWNA does not, and cannot condone this type of action” and then followed by an APOLOGY and asking for forgiveness from all contractors that may have been affected by the PWNA’s actions. Instead it’s as if to say that while we do allow the investigation and stalking of our members we do not allow the posting of our results.

To add insult to injury you then stated that this episode is an “embarrassment to our organization, and to every Power Wash Contract Cleaner; the negative behavior between fellow contractors needs to stop. This type of action reflects negatively upon the entire Power Wash Industry and gives our customers the perception that Power Washing Contract Cleaners are uneducated and not Professionals similar to Plumbers, Auto Mechanics, Painters, or other Trades”

Your absolutely right, and it should be an embarrassment, TO YOUR ORGANIZATON, but I can tell you I am not embarrassed as in over 22 years of being in this industry in both Florida and Texas, I have never once had a customer ask if I am a member of the PWNA. Your organizations actions reflect on you, not me. Furthermore you really have no right at this point to command that negativity between fellow contractors stop especially when you go onto call Plumbers, Auto Mechanics, Painters and other trades as uneducated and unprofessional. I have many friends in those fields and believe me, they are VERY EDUCATED AND VERY PROFESSIONAL. That statement is an embarrassment to me.

It seems to me that the slogan “Negativity breeds negativity, and nobody wins” is a favorite when somebody disagrees with the PWNA. Actually Negativity only Breeds Negativity when YOU ALLOW IT TO. When a person talks about your bad service or actions on a public forum it is because you have not handled that person’s request in the proper professional manner and they feel they have no other recourse to get someone to listen. This is not negativity, this is bad customer service and poor follow through on your organization’s part. There are people on *** right now that have publicly stated they have asked for refunds and have not heard anything from you for DAYS. Is it to hard to simply go on and make a statement like, “your check is in the mail” or at the very least communicate that to them in some fashion so that we can see how you are responding?

I have seen countless posts on BBS’s of members asking for refunds, not receiving membership packets in a timely fashion, not receiving return phone calls, return emails, etc etc, but never do I see the PWNA come on to answer those posts. Your organization has many, many CUSTOMERS that are upset and DISSATISIFIED with your service, (not to mention your actions) yet you choose to do nothing about it but accuse us all of being negative. If this resignation announcement was meant as “damage control” it failed miserably in my opinion.

Lastly, you state that “I feel there is a lesson to be learned by everyone involved; act accordingly to how you want to be perceived, are we Professionals or Not?” That statement really should not be in the letter but instead sent to every BOD member with the note,” let’s all think about this statement over the weekend and meet on Monday to figure out how we can correct OUR mistakes and OUR PUBLIC PERCEPTION. “

And when you come back on Monday perhaps answer this question that has been publicly asked many times by one of your members Tony **************, So I ask again. Are there any board members who knew what Mike was doing and encouraged that kind of act on a PWNA member who are willing to step up, identify themselves, so we can at least move on knowing their character so we can judge our associations accurately in the future?”

You see, these are the types of questions that when asked publicly and get NO PUBLIC RESPONSE from your organization cause the embarrassment and the unprofessionalism you speak of for you and your organization.

Also, somebody from PWNA, if you have not done this already, MAN UP, Call Ron ********** and apologize on behalf of the PWNA. BEG for his forgiveness. And post a PUBLIC APOLOGY as well. What your ORANIZATIONS REPRESENTATIVE did was wrong. Now it’s time to DO THE RIGHT THING. There is nobody in this industry that can help you more RIGHT NOW than Ron. How you choose to respond will dictate the future of your organization.

Regards,

Doug **********

Clean and Green Solutions

281.883.8470

[Scott Stone 604]

May 20, 2011

From Eric Clark, President of PWNA

I want to announce to the power washing community that Mike Hilborn has resigned as Executive Director of the PWNA. His resignation is in response to a post that he made Monday, May 16th. Within 12 hours of his post, Mike recognized his very poor judgment and had the post taken down first thing Tuesday morning, replacing it with an apology. Tuesday evening Mike called me and communicated his great remorse and submitted his resignation. He took full responsibility for his actions and said that his actions were his own and that they reflected poorly on the PWNA, thus requiring he resign as Executive Director.

Unfortunately, in the letter I received, and that Tony received, he said he was going to seek board approval. If he did, it colors the PWNA very poorly, and since there appears to be a trend of the PWNA non entirely forthcoming on what is happening, or what they are up to, it causes a few of us to wonder exactly what the truth is in this regard. It is even more obvious to those of us that know that he did not remove the letter until after the admin of this site read him the riot act for being so stupid. It is really shocking to me that someone could exhibit such poor judgement, except, I guess I have been known to exhibit the same poor judgement, from time to time

The PWNA does not, and cannot condone this type of action. This episode is an embarrassment to our organization, and to every Power Wash Contract Cleaner; the negative behavior between fellow contractors needs to stop. This type of action reflects negatively upon the entire Power Wash Industry and gives our customers the perception that Power Washing Contract Cleaners are uneducated and not Professionals similar to Plumbers, Auto Mechanics, Painters, or other Trades.

This paragraph could not have been written any more poorly, as evidenced by Dougs understanding of it. It could be intentional, but I doubt it. From my experience, professionalism is determined on a personal interaction with customers. I can assure you that my customers consider me a professional and are ready, and trusting enough to contact me for my professional opinion on many subjects, from cleaning requirements, to how to handle business matters. The mantle of professionalism that some people put on others, only extends as far as their experience with a contractor goes. Some people will consider someone unprofessional if they disagree with them. In my opinion, a professional will disagree if there is something incorrect, explain why it is incorrect, and work to help that person or organization to correct the areas where they are mistaken.

Negativity breeds negativity, and nobody wins; every contract cleaner loses status as a Professional Contractor every time this type of action happens in public. Our Public Perception will largely now be determined by how this industry acts as a whole on the Internet, and particularly on the Industry Bulletin Boards. Every time you make a Negative Post you lower the Public Status of the Entire Power Wash Industry, and confirm that we are not Professionals! Our Profession will be treated exactly how we act as a whole.

Though you are perfectly correct that negativity breeds negativity, I also think that people being willing and open to share ideas breeds success. I think that, even though you will find negativity on all of the boards, it is often subject to interpretation. People never like to see their ox get gored. It is just the nature of mankind. Unfortunately, the members of the PWNA BOD seem to look negatively on anyone that participates on a board. They look negatively on a board when someone quits and stops posting, and claims it is because of the attitude of the board. Realistically, on some boards, those that quit, have been barraged by negative people, not on the boards, but on the phone, and through personal contact because someone has an agenda to promote their own "professionalism". I have been in this industry long enough, and have maintained a high enough profile that many people know who I am. Very few have met me. I have had people come to me and beg me to work with them on a project, and when I refused, because I really hate going in on projects with people, I have been painted as unprofessional, or worse. I adopt that same attitude with the boards. It can get kind of rough, but it will help you grow. I have never seen anyone grow without having come from an experience that was less then perfect.

I don't know about Beth, but I suspect she is the same as I am on ***. I don't have the time, or the desire to monitor every post. Sometimes I am tired, because I have been out working. That being the case, I depend on the moderators and the individual members, to report a post if it is inappropriate. If a post offends you, and you do not report it, you are at fault, too. It is simple enough really. That little triangle on the left bottom of every post not only puts a notice in the admin and moderator section, but sends out an immediate email to the admins and mods of the boards.

Mike Hilborn has been a major part of the PWNA and has taken us to greater heights by volunteering his personal time and money to attend many contractor events, creating and teaching Certification courses, assembling trade shows, and many other great pieces of our organization. His Emotions overcame his Better Judgment temporarily resulting in the loss of a key leader in our industry. I feel it’s a shame.

Wow, he was busy. I am curious how long someone is able to lack better judgement, and be somewhat absolved. Did he show the poor judgement when he came to Phoenix? Was it when he searched out one of Ron's facilities, and had to trespass to look over the fence? I have been to Ron's yard, and know that it would take a very concerted effort to see how many rigs he has in the yard. There are two fences, one 10 foot, with open gates showing the property line, the other 11 foot separated by about 50 feet that someone would have to traverse to try and see his rigs. I can also assure that Ron is fully into the shell game, and hiding his assets, because he does not want to have someone peering into his personal life, without permission.

T=Calibri]Again, the PWNA does not condone this type of behavior. [/font][/size]

I feel there is a lesson to be learned by everyone involved; act accordingly to how you want to be perceived, are we Professionals or Not?

Thank you,

Eric Clark

PWNA President

I see this last sentence as a deliberate slam by the PWNA, and the BOD. In all reality, this is a profession filled by guys that are doing their best to make their way, and be financially successful. We all do it, varying degrees of success. As I stated earlier, me professionalism is not determined by my customers by what I post on these boards, though I do feel a sense of propriety is necessary when posting. My professionalism is determined by the service I provide my customers, the service I provide, and my knwoledge of the industry and business in general. It is amazing how far that gets me.

If anyone would like to see the original, unedited letter, they are still free to email me at the-washer@msn.com, and I can forward it to you. I have had a few people ask for it, and everyone was apalled by the bredth, scope and tone of the letter. I actually find it difficult to believe that no one on the BOD, or associated with the PWNA in an leadership capacity, knew about it. It is not the type of thing someone does under the radar, though I bet Mike is enjoying the view under the bus.

[Doug Rucker 31]

Scott, I think the fact that they will not answer Tony's repeated request for full discolsure, as well as others, proves that they all knew about it and help plan it and my guess is Mike was not alone (I think myabe 1 or 2 other BOD"S were there too) in his invading Ron's privacy.

[John T 744]

As usual I'm going to take a different take on this since there was alot more at stake then just Mike Hilborn and Ron Disliking each other. First off Like Eric Clark states in his post it is a shame that a good leader such as Mike Hilborn has now resigned over something that festered between him and Ron. So who loses?? We all do. We all lost a little more today because of this fiasco. Like I told Ron on the phone from what many understood there was a supposed meeting that was going to happen in July maybe around the 21st where some leaders in this industry such as Ron, Michael and Robert Hinderliter, Maybe even Micheal Hilborn and a few others where heading to Houston to sit and talk with the Powers to be there as to what the percieve problems are that were causing some Powerwashers in that area to be summons. The EPA is at the core of this and they are a Gov't entity that is extremely powerful in pushing what they determined to be the correct rules to protect the Environment. These are the heavy weights. The Code enforcers are the ones who now can go out and issue summons to the Powerwashers who they believe are in Violation of the ordinances that are now put in place in Houston.

The only real shot to maybe just maybe put a dent in this is to have the leaders in this industry go there and try to show them a better way where not only the Community at large benefits but so does the Contractor and the Code enforcer. These are real issues and now because of what happened with Mike stepping down and people pointing fingers saying he is a stalker, This guy says this, That guy says that etc etc. we have once again took another step backwards.

Why would any professional group especially involving the EPA want to hear anything we have to say. We can't even get on the same page ourselves and be professional and go down to Houston no matter if your a member of the PWNA, NCE or just a Powerwasher in this business and expect to be taken seriously when we forever have these type fiasco's happen.

I'm not saying what Micheal Hilborn did was right. He's human and his momentarily lapse of reason and the fallout from that has cost all of us. Michael went to the RT's, He kept the PWNA on track and from what most of us understood he also gave a darn..so now he's gone.

Now you get the fallout from that with these open letters to the PWNA and guys demanding heads role and some asking for refunds etc. If I was working for the EPA I'd be looking at this as what a joke this profession is. Personally I don't feel like that but those are the big guns and we as a group might of had a small shot and getting them to listen to us the professionals because this is what we do. Now we have knocked ourselves down a few notches again and in that we lose what really was a good leader who made one bad decision and since we all know the money Mike might have made in his position it wasn't enough for him to fight to stay on so its was a no brainer for him to resign. Who needs it.

Just to reiterate what Eric Clark says "It is a damn shame". Nobody wins here and that should not have been the objective. The objective should have been to go to Houston and help those contractors there that are getting shut down. Somewhere we lost sight of that and now the pissing match begins.

Today I feel bad for the Houston Powerwashers and I am thankful I don't have to work there to earn a living in this field but the day my area starts to get like Houston I sure hope the guys in my area get much better support then a bunch of Powerwashers doing the blame game on each other because once again if thats the case we'll lose again.

No happiness here and to put it in laymens terms....this sucks.

[tonyshelton 112]

John, if you saw a butterfly shedding it's cocoon would you lecture him about what he's losing by leaving that cocoon behind. As an industry we need to purge individual personality conflicts that overwhelm attempts to better the industry. We need to purge ourselves from any "leader" that "leads" us into their bank account. This is a long and painful process. Hang in there!

[John T 744]

Yea True Tony but thats not what happened here. Ron was friends with these guys long before we knew Ron. There were years Ron was not to supportive of the PWNA and then there were times like last year he couldnt say enough nice things about them. Ron can't stay mad long enough. He'll be supportive again. Just sit back and watch. To bad Micheal Hilborn resign because he was good and he did a good job. Like anything else in life its easy to see why Mike Resigned. Besides maybe losing some BOD support it wasn't worth it to Mike to be called the bad guy when all along he was excellent. Ron even said so on many different occassions. I can find the old post and bring them up where Ron is saying how good Mike Hilborn is for the PWNA and the industry at large.

Tony I'm dying to hear you bring in the forefathers into this....common you know you want to. What would the forefathers do?? I know..Hang them..lol OK uncalled for but just watch what happens. Ron last year was the biggest fan of the PWNA. You know it, I know it and most everyone else knows it. Ron may have been awared with one of there highest honors. Rons mad but he never quits. I'll give him that but you watch.... Ron will be supportive again. I bet ya.... common Tony put your money where your mouth is...Ron will be back and a huge supporter again of the PWNA. You'll see...

[Doug Rucker 31]

John, just so you know the problems with Houston have nothing to do with the EPA or Code Enforcers. Code Enforecers go around and ticket people for properties in disrepair. Overgrown weeds, trash cans left out overnight, broken down cars left in driveways or in one spot to long etc, etc,. The EPA stated in the last meeting, and I am paraphrasing here, but they pretty much said that our industry is not even on their radar. They have much bigger concerns than pressure washers. The problem in Houston is with the Environmental Affairs Division w the Houston Police Department and their interpretation of the CWA and the fact they believe the CWA says nothing can go down a drain but rain.

I asked Ron ********** back at the beginning of this year, (as a contactor that was ticketed), to look into and help us in getting Houston squared away. He has done that, and continues to do that, And at his own expense. Ron actually invited Rober Hinderliter to come to the last meeting in March. They didn't just show up on their own. To do this day I have seen NOTHING that the PWNA has done to benefit or help us in Houston. In fact I have seen the opposite. Everything they have done that I am aware of has hurt us.

Rest assured we are making great strides and moving along well in Houston with Ron's help and leadership. We WILL prevent this from happening in your city and when it's all done you will be able to thank RON.

These events with the PWNA invading Ron's privacy, stalking etc, have not and will not cause us to take a step backwards. Exactly the opposite, it is a HUGE step forward. As Tony said, we are finally able to purge our industry of individuals in leadership that are not looking out for yours and my best interests.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

John,

Sorry my friend but I have to disagree with you. He was told by two bods that I know of specifically NOT to post that letter. He did anyway. The situation he made HE MADE HIMSELF. He walked out onto a limb of a tree way up high, started his chainsaw and cut the limb behind himself. He was told not to climb that tree. Is it a shame we lost him? After that escapade, NO. Do you not remember all the crap that happened in the past and how it hurt the org? This org had JUST turned the corner again and was beginning to look good in public AND to get members. They will get a new ED.

Beth

[Thad 135]

We're talking about several days worth of stalking here, not "momentary".

I think Mike Hilborn is on Ambien.

That's the only explanation.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

There were years Ron was not to supportive of the PWNA and then there were times like last year he couldnt say enough nice things about them. Ron can't stay mad long enough.

John, I'm not madd at the pwna and its members. The BOD made a Choice to Step away from me and my company before Mike H made these comments. (officially prior to Mike H moment of cutting branches behind him )

In his own address he was giving these statements as to why the BOD had made these choices.

Officially in that thread!!!!

We all can pretend here that the BOD knew nothing when in fact this was the vary report days earlier they voted Me OUT!!!!

They Choose to only post here Now!!

These are Facts and this is the way it still remains.

Frankly I can live with this, if 9 men can be fooled and do such a terrible thing to a person and when caught they do not do the right thing I truly will not want any further things to with them or there Membership.

So you understand the member of this org are good folks, the real bad folks are the Leaders that Allowed this type of action to ever happen.

Your statement about support for this org is a false statement. I have never not supported this org, we all disagree with it over the 20 years. For my disagreements I got this!!!!! Thanks PWNA BOD

I have done more than the PWNA in a couple months than the PWNA has done in 20 years. This is the real truth, I have put 200 plus people into this org with the efforts of my company and with the help of Kory and others. Through a team effort we manage to rebuild this Org.

The question is that some individuals have really never wanted this org to succeed. Its better that they remain small and controllable. If the org gets to large they will loose the obvious control of everyone and then there company will not profit from the org.

I'm tired of seeing programs offered to people that are not offered to others.

John what you do not know it Delux offers delux bucks at these events they sell in the pWNA booth as incentive to join the pWNA. If I was a vendor wanting to participate with the org I would think twice about participating. These are BS tactics giving advantages to those people who founded the org. They are wrong and not ethical.

They will say they where approved by the BOD, just like making me and outcast was approved on a report full of LIES!!!!

Edited May 22, 2011 by Ron Musgraves

[John T 744]

John,

Sorry my friend but I have to disagree with you. He was told by two bods that I know of specifically NOT to post that letter. He did anyway. The situation he made HE MADE HIMSELF. He walked out onto a limb of a tree way up high, started his chainsaw and cut the limb behind himself. He was told not to climb that tree. Is it a shame we lost him? After that escapade, NO. Do you not remember all the crap that happened in the past and how it hurt the org? This org had JUST turned the corner again and was beginning to look good in public AND to get members. They will get a new ED.

Beth

Hey Beth I am not denying Mike Hilborn did what he did. He screwed up....but... you now how these things go. Beth do you think that Robert Hinderliter is a liar?? Do you think His son Micheal is a liar?? Do you see whats being painted here??... I'm not asking you or anyone to agree with me about anything. Micheal Hilborn made a mistake so he left...Gone....Goodbye. All the good he did and he did plenty Ron snapped him. This is right up there when I invited Russel Cissel to Memphis to speak to the PWNA BOD. We all know how that turned out and WRAPI was trying to be sprung then. Another org. with grand idea's that is today blowing in the wind.

Ron was invited onto the PWNA phone call and he says what he has to say and he hangs up. Do you remember when Ron called Jeff L. customers?? Do you remember how Jeff felt about that?? The end of the day we get over it. Jeff is friendly with Ron today. Do you remember Beth who I had to purge out of the PWNA bb?? Yup my good pal Ron. I like Ron but some of these things go way to far. This is what the end result is now.

The PWNA has taken a hit. NCE no matter what Ron says has taken a hit, The powerwashers in general have taken a hit. We all have who take this business seriously. So hey Michael Hilborn made it easy.. he apologized and resigned. Maybe just maybe so and so is right. Where nothing but a bunch of hose sprayers nothing more nothing less.

THis is an embarrassment all across the board. Fun and jokes is one thing but to now blow it all up.... History has repeated itself and thankfully I'm not invovled on this one because I sure didn't help on the last few.

Good luck to the Houston Powerwashers and to any other states this most likely will happened to because like I said all along its a revenue stream and to put a small dent on it your ducks have to be very much in a row.... not like what is above which is dead ducks in the water.

Besides that... all is good and business is booming but my area is getting worse and ultimitely its going to cause my family some undo stress and that is my biggest concern now which is people are losing work here left and right.....

[tonyshelton 112]

Yea True Tony but thats not what happened here. Ron was friends with these guys long before we knew Ron. There were years Ron was not to supportive of the PWNA and then there were times like last year he couldnt say enough nice things about them. Ron can't stay mad long enough. He'll be supportive again. Just sit back and watch. To bad Micheal Hilborn resign because he was good and he did a good job. Like anything else in life its easy to see why Mike Resigned. Besides maybe losing some BOD support it wasn't worth it to Mike to be called the bad guy when all along he was excellent. Ron even said so on many different occassions. I can find the old post and bring them up where Ron is saying how good Mike Hilborn is for the PWNA and the industry at large.

Tony I'm dying to hear you bring in the forefathers into this....common you know you want to. What would the forefathers do?? I know..Hang them..lol OK uncalled for but just watch what happens. Ron last year was the biggest fan of the PWNA. You know it, I know it and most everyone else knows it. Ron may have been awared with one of there highest honors. Rons mad but he never quits. I'll give him that but you watch.... Ron will be supportive again. I bet ya.... common Tony put your money where your mouth is...Ron will be back and a huge supporter again of the PWNA. You'll see...

John, this is business. I guess our founding fathers would have simply stayed out of it because they didn't have the rights enumerated to them to interfere with private business affairs. Are you happy now John? :)

If Ron called the entire BOD over for a slumber party next month I couldn't care less. We are both our own man. Ron tries to counsel me and let me know when I've done something wrong and I do the same for him. That's what friends do.

As I said before, if I had announced fully what Mike did (and I knew about the majority of it right after it happened) you and many others would have crucified me and called me a liar and a troublemaker. What does that say about the level of deception that can be so easily perpetrated on unsuspecting contractors?

You mentioned some of the things Ron has done. I think I've been pretty vocal about my disagreement with some decisions Ron has made and we both try to keep each other in check so our emotions don't rule our lives. But, as I told Mike in San Diego, Ron has an advantage that Mike doesn't have. Ron is not acting as an official representative for our industry. Maybe there's a reason he's always working behind the scenes. Maybe he wants to keep that advantage. I don't know. But I do know this - What Mike (and the others involved) did was an unprofessional and unauthorized abuse of the titles they hold.

They will never see it that way though. To them Ron is the root cause of all their problems. It appears from your posts that you are putting forth the same conclusion.

Edited May 22, 2011 by tonyshelton
sp

[John T 744]

Tony I just got off the phone with Ron. This whole darn thing helps no one. You say Ron is not acting as an official representative to the Industry. Here read this. Ron owns NCE and there are many members so Ron is for better or worse a huge representative of the Industry. Your conclusion above that the "PWNA is accusing Ron as being the root of all there problems and I agree with that"--- I wonder how you come to these conclusions. Who says they have all these problems. According to Ron they want to stay small so they have no problems. I don't buy into that conclusion of Rons but in all fairness he has said the same thing there for years about them staying small.

The difference at times Tony from you to me is that I will point the finger at someone from my side and that is the reason I will never make it in politics. All I say is that this is a shame this happened and the PWNA president is spot on when he says its a shame another good leader has left and he also was fair in saying that The ED should not have done what he did. But as these things go some people want to beat others who are down and they want to go for the Jugular also. Sometimes that may be the case but in this one there are some really good guys in the PWNA as there are in the NCE so I don't condemn them.

This is another saga with a bad ending...interesting of course and funny at times but hurtful at the end. Depressing might be the better word for it and Tony guys like you and I aren't getting any younger....Oh yea nice yearbook pic of you that you posted the other day. Damn did we lool similar with our feather back hair styles.... Where has all the time gone?? And when will this backwards stepping of the industry ever end????

[Thad 135]

I hate to step in this steaming pile of crap but I'm confused about one thing-

National Cleaning Expo is a privately held company that puts on round tables or networking events. Since when are there members? Much less "many members"? It's not an organization, it's a company.

What are you talking about, John?

[John T 744]

I hate to step in this steaming pile of crap but I'm confused about one thing-

National Cleaning Expo is a privately held company that puts on round tables or networking events. Since when are there members? Much less "many members"? It's not an organization, it's a company.

What are you talking about, John?

Unless I'm misunderstanding Ron and thats easy to do at times I think he was saying that the PWNA only has 200 + members(266 to be more exact) and the NCE has thousands of members. Ron can answer that better then me and your still not getting any extra sleep meds from me even though you look like you can use some:dunno:

[Celeste 341]

I would hazard to guess that he was saying PWNA has 266 PAID MEMBERS and NCE has thousands of contractors that participate with his company. NCE is a privately held COMPANY, therefore, would not have members by the PWNA member standards.

[Thad 135]

I would hazard to guess that he was saying PWNA has 266 PAID MEMBERS and NCE has thousands of contractors that participate with his company. NCE is a privately held COMPANY, therefore, would not have members by the PWNA member standards.

Seems pretty clear and simple to me.

Contact list for a private company does not equal (or bear any similarity to) paying contractors of a non-profit organization.

At least not on this planet.

[John T 744]

Ask Ron who represents the industry. Here's my answer. You guys, Myself and around 40,000 others represent the Powerwashing industry...for better or worse. Paid members, non members, the powerwashing hacks etc. represent us. We need to get rid of the hacks because all industries have them or at least distant ourselves from them but they are part of the industry unfornately.

Anyway I think I exhausted myself on this subject. Today my guys are stripping a Cedar House and deck. Here's a house we just did Saturday.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Yes your correct, the PWNA only represents a couple people. TGS represents more people than the org and has more Value helping people. When we have problems in the industry we gather here to help and assist each other. Meetings and seminars are crafted through this vary forum.

Its a wonderful place, the re-birth of the PWNA has happened on forums to many times to count.

I wish the the PWNA good Luck!!!

Make no mistakes this org is has finally shown its about the members only & a few select folks.

Thats ok too!!

No attacking or beating them up, its was a misunderstanding on my part. That clear voice for the industry should be changed. " Clear Voice for a couple guys"

PWNA makes appearance they are something they clearly are not. (FACT)

I only hope people will change this, we all have hoped for a long time. I was messed up in this years ago, we put 32 vendors in the org for the first time in history. Where are THEY????????? Gone because this org cannot ever become viable for anything but LOGO rental.

Please understand that I'm only telling the truth.

I think maybe If assemble all the past presidents in a think tank together we could get to the bottom of this Mess.

The problem all started because I disagree with the ED on some issues. It didn't mean I wanted him gone. I just wanted to effectively debate the problem, then when I told them fine go ahead I really do not care this was when the problem really occurred.

Jackie I know your reading along with Mike, hope your baby is doing well. I truly wish you luck in your new position, your will be more effective in the spot because you will truly be a servant to the members and the BOD.

I always say things can happen for a reason, Mike's leaving could be a huge benefit and plus.

If you Jackie need help from me personally you know how to reach me.

I will not be a PWNA hater, I will how ever look at the org for what it really stands for. If these BOD want to change my perception or the industry they will have to prove it.

I think Most believe that I'm the Bad person they where told about. I can live with that if they can sleep at night knowing they just ousted not one but two of the largest supporters of there org.

Why did this happen? Poor leadership and laziness , easier to agree with the people pushing the org forward. People often in these roles play on people ability to want to actually do nothing and allow others to seek there agendas as long as they remain in the position and do not have to work.

Is this and attack? No just hard facts that truly cannot be disputed without looking worse.

I attacked no person specific, but I already know that silence from myself equals please do not talk with Ron because we do not want the truth out. Opps to late because some men have a conscience for there actions and have already apologized for themselves.

We need strong people to make real changes. Maybe some of these guys at the top will change it.

I will always be around for my friends in this business. The PWNA as a WHOLE has not been the industry friend, recent items passed are not contractor friendly. These are the vary things that have messed up markets for our industry in the past and it seems they want to keep moving forward with OLD stuff.

I can Speak the truth here on the Grime Scene, Robert has already Upset people in Houston. Some of you might think thats great, he's making changes. I prey that the PWNA understands that they need to approve Robert action before he proceeds. If they have learned anything from the ED situation is allow no one to operate in there name alone. ( If beth Needs reference I can Provide her) I never accuse with out proof!!! I doubt Robert would Deny, Robert has always been honest that the people in Houston do not care for him. Please understand that I do not fault Robert for his efforts, I just have issue with the delivery sometimes.

Here's My stance with PWNA, I'm not certain they will ever go the direction of the majority or will ever be a force positive in this industry.

I will not allow the transgression taken out on me to ever say that good people are not involved. Good people did not do this to me a few bad ones with poor judgement. They are being singled out as always truth prevails.

I have never seen people succeed on LIES!!! Maybe the truth will come forward and these men will move this org forward along with the industry.

Good Luck to the good people at the PWNA, I wish you luck !!!

I will forgive but as the chapter goes I will never forget!!!

Your right John a Waste of our time and that a Shame.

We represent our industry!!! all of us

Ask Ron who represents the industry. Here's my answer. You guys, Myself and around 40,000 others represent the Powerwashing industry...for better or worse. Paid members, non members, the powerwashing hacks etc. represent us. We need to get rid of the hacks because all industries have them or at least distant ourselves from them but they are part of the industry unfornately.

Anyway I think I exhausted myself on this subject. Today my guys are stripping a Cedar House and deck. Here's a house we just did Saturday.

[charlie 14]

All this makes me glad that I deal with other local prof. contractors only.