Having a Roundtable

[Celeste 341]

This dialogue should probably be somehow re-posted or something over on the PWNA site as it is a PWNA issue. I'm not saying that Rod & Beth's board is not a good place to discuss, that would be their call, but it seems to me that this topic could possibly be more appropriately placed on the PWNA site.

Then you'd have to ask and answer questions twice! ;)

Celeste

[John T 744]

Celeste,

It seems that most bb's discourage the practice of lifting a thread from there bb and putting it on another bb to get more answers to it.

I did personally ask Everett to respond here to Mike's post since Everett probably has the most knowledge on how these roundtables/Chapter meetings work.

I also thanked him personally for adding some valuable imput to this thread. The hard questions were being asked here so I went right to the source who could probably answer them best and that would be Everett.

[Mike 64]

This dialogue should probably be somehow re-posted or something over on the PWNA site as it is a PWNA issue. I'm not saying that Rod & Beth's board is not a good place to discuss, that would be their call, but it seems to me that this topic could possibly be more appropriately placed on the PWNA site.

Then you'd have to ask and answer questions twice! ;)

Celeste

Actually this thread started out as a roundtable thread, not a PWNA chapter meeting thread, so thats why it was posted here to hopefully get guys fired up on having a roundtable discussion. The PWNA angle was brought up by PWNA members and BOD. I welcome their thoughts and ideas to the thread and I thank John & Everette for their good information, but to answer your question this thread was originally about local roundtables. Feel free to start a thread on the PWNA bbs about chapter meetings as I'm sure some good questions could be asked there also.

[newlook 265]

I am suprised more folks have not dived into this thread.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Mike, you are correct... I apologize for heading in a different direction. I read Johns post and assumed that the thread was about contrasting round tables verses PWNA chapters.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Mike,

Actually there is a lot of other successful contractors out there than just on the various Bulletin Boards. We do not even list them all anymore. We really have our own group and have had over 300 different contractors attend our various meetings. When we have a meeting they are e-mailed from our list. Many of the folks who call and show up now are those that were referred. It has become a great group that pick and choose which meetings they attend. The money has been put back into the local efforts. Most of the people who attend ARE NOT on the Bulletin Boards or even members when they first come. My point is that the idea and concept is probably more popular than you think. Somebody has to take the lead and then carry it out. One year we had I think about 11 Roundtables going on all at the same time. The problem is many of them did not continue the effort. It reminds me of the movie "Field of Dreams" with a different take on the line "If you build it, they will come." Instead, "If you hold the meeting, they will come." We are also looking at different ideas along the lines of attending local meetings will give you speacials on thhe convention or membership. There really is a lot of benefit that come from all sides of these meetings. My personal opinion is they are win-win for everybody.

Everette, Please Clarify

Are all of the round tables sponsored or endorsed exclusively by the PWNA

[newlook 265]

Sounds like this thread is going to stay so I will ask my question(s) here vs. the PWNA BBS.

John T posted ~

"Meetings are open to members and non-members (can attend ONE meeting without having to join PWNA).

PWNA members who pay national dues are entitled to pay a lower fee to attend Chapter meetings.

Non-members must join PWNA after one meeting to attend additional meetings."

Say I have a guy that is a non-member. He attends his first meeting ~ pays his $25 plus shipping and handling :). He likes what he sees in the PWNA org. but is not fully committed to join the org. on the spot. I tell him to take his time and when he is ready to join let me know. Okay, the next chapter meeting is scheduled and this guy gives me a call and would like to attend another meeting to help him get the full picture of what this PWNA is all about.

According to the guidelines of the PWNA Chapters ~ I need to tell this guy that he cannot attend a 2nd meeting unless he joins the PWNA?

What is the harm of having this nonmember attend 3-4 meetings without having to join the organization? This gives the nonmember plenty of time to form a fair assessment of the organization, at least from a Chapter level.

[John T 744]

Carlos,

The Chapter rules have been changed a few times as we go along. Today it might be 3 times or so that someone can go to one of these before they have to decide whether they want to join or not.

When time permits I'm going to look into other organizations such as IWCA org. (Window Cleaners) www.iwca.org , NSPF Org.(Swimming pools) www.nspf.org which have over 5000 members who pay a minimum of $500/member/yr, and see how they tick and what makes them so successful.

There's so much uncharted water out there that needs to be explored so we can come up with some more ideas and answers.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Sounds like this thread is going to stay so I will ask my question(s) here vs. the PWNA BBS.

John T posted ~

"Meetings are open to members and non-members (can attend ONE meeting without having to join PWNA).

PWNA members who pay national dues are entitled to pay a lower fee to attend Chapter meetings.

Non-members must join PWNA after one meeting to attend additional meetings."

Say I have a guy that is a non-member. He attends his first meeting ~ pays his $25 plus shipping and handling :). He likes what he sees in the PWNA org. but is not fully committed to join the org. on the spot. I tell him to take his time and when he is ready to join let me know. Okay, the next chapter meeting is scheduled and this guy gives me a call and would like to attend another meeting to help him get the full picture of what this PWNA is all about.

According to the guidelines of the PWNA Chapters ~ I need to tell this guy that he cannot attend a 2nd meeting unless he joins the PWNA?

What is the harm of having this nonmember attend 3-4 meetings without having to join the organization? This gives the nonmember plenty of time to form a fair assessment of the organization, at least from a Chapter level.

Carlos.... It is all about the Benjamin $$$ and the need to increase membership numbers.

To really increase the numbers, the organization will need to promote the PWNA to the public and the PWNA agenda to the current members and potential members. Promote to Current members to keep them; to potential members to get them and to the public to educate them. I think this policy creates an impression to the bystander that the PWNA is looking to get your cash as soon as they can!

The caveat to this is that - to promote the PWNA it takes cash.

My wife has been reading these threads.. I laughed when she suggested that we have a huge PWNA Bake sale. (she was just kidding of course).

[newlook 265]

If the PWNA is anxious to increase their numbers then a non-member should not be mandated to only just one Chapter Meeting -- it doesn't make good business sense.

John T. explained that the policies for the Chapters are changing on a daily basis and that the number of "visits" by a non-member could be as high as 3. I think that is great if that is true. If a nonmember has not made up his/her mind up after 3 visits to a chapter meeting then I think it is pretty safe to say that they have no intention on joining.

I know that Everett and everybody else is working hard on this subject and we are anxious to read the final version of the policies.

[Celeste 341]

Matthew, your wife's idea, although some may think it is funny, does have some merit. Local chapters should have some way or another of fund-raising if only just to keep local chapter expenses to a minimum so that we can effectively make ourselves known without having to go to the BoD for money. The big question on this is how to raise money - clearly one cannot compete with other type non-profits that are in place to benefit homeless or the enviroment - something that touches the human nature side. However, what if a local chapter sponsors an event that one could purchase a raffle ticket for. If the "Clean Across America" was more widely recognized, folks may be inclined to hire for services if they thought that some of their money was going back in to the beautification of their community. Now before anyone gets their panties in a wad about costs involved again......the one thing I learned about non-profits is that if the members don't sacrifice & volunteer their time and talent, the organization will never reach it's full potential. It is going to take 100 Everett's and 100 John T's and the same 100 of every other person that have been the groundbreakers for the past several years. The organization is only as strong as it's members. Some people will never join if they aren't getting something financial in return..fine, they don't join. If your only reason to join an organization is to get something in return for your money, you should probably keep it to spend on something that you can physically touch. The key is to find members who all share the same vision and that will work together as part of the team to make the vision happen.

Now, if I could have just put out there what specifically the vision is, my speech would have been complete.

Celeste

[Mike 64]

The organization is only as strong as it's members. Some people will never join if they aren't getting something financial in return..fine, they don't join. If your only reason to join an organization is to get something in return for your money, you should probably keep it to spend on something that you can physically touch.

Celeste

You bring up some good points, but about this point quoted above, I've seen many PWNA members say on various occasions that they joined the PWNA for marketing reasons. Because they feel the image of being part of the PWNA will make them more money. Which I really cant disagree with them, arent we all in the business to make money?

[John T 744]

There are many things you can get out of an ORganization that will one day lead to more money in your pocket such as the way I did this past summer when I got 3-4 jobs just for being a member of PWNA.

You will see alot of very successful companies also belong to1,2,3 or more orgnizations so that alone has to tell you something.

One of my good friends here has a swimming pool installation company that also does weekly cleanings etc. He has a store and on his store window he advertises the fact that he is a paying member of his org www.nspf.com because as he puts it, it gives his company more credibility which means more sales=more profit=more$$$. SO yes marketing is a huge reason to join a reputable ORGANIZATION. So many people just don't understand this and they always look at it in initial monetary values such as if it cost me $195 to join I should get back more then what I invested in cash. And they also take the attitude that ORGANIZATIONS promote that if you arent a member that your not a top of the line professional etc. etc. etc. These people are either A-are missing the point of what an Organization stands for: B-Have there minds closed on these issues: C-They just don't like organizations: D-They are convinced that an organization will not help them where there business is at today: and many other reasons.

Some of there reasons make sense to me and some of them don't but to each his own.

Its up to each and every person to investigate on there own whether they can see an Organization can help them. If the least in the PWNA its so cheap to join for a contractor such as myself $195/yr in which I get a subscription to "Cleaner Times" Magazine which years ago I use to pay for myself $36 value and the price of membership is a write off. So in the end it probably cost at most $100 out of pocket and you can advertise the PWNA in with your company. It doesn't get much cheaper then this as far as Organizations go but no matter what You just can't please everybody.......

[newlook 265]

I agree with you John as it relates to the different reasons companies join organizations. The reason for joining organizations are different for each individual but I can venture to say that marketing is the dominate reason why establishments join - to position themselves to make money.

Costs are needed to run any organization ~ even the PWNA. That's a given and I don't think there was a debate on that particular subject with this thread. I know for myself, I questioned as to why would the PWNA make a nonmember pay for a membership if he wanted to attend a 2nd meeting to explore further about his/her desire to join the PWNA. Thank goodness that someone in PWNA land recognized that this would be counterproductive as it relates to retention and raised it to 3 meetings (at last count).

In a perfect world I wish everybody had the same zeal that Celeste has as it relates to reasons for joining an organization. If all the p/w's across the land felt the same way then the PWNA membership would be busting at the seams. The reality of it is that there are companies looking to join an organization so that their $$'s increase ~ nothing more .... nothing less!

[Celeste 341]

Has anyone ever explored a "trial membership" type idea. A reduced fee for limited privileges (no logo useage, limited member bbs areas, introductory copy of magazine & newsletter, 30 days of discount from vendors) - kind of a taste of membership without the full price & commitment....the trial price could be deducted from the full membership if they chose to join at the end of the say 90 day trial period.

What this has to do with Round tables I don't know....but it might be something to offer up at these get togethers.

Celeste

[newlook 265]

Celeste

LOL...I, we, all of us sorta got off the subject of Round Tables. I never thought of a Trial Membership but I guess anything is possible. Wonder what kind of tracking/accouting problems this would raise...if any?

I still like the idea of letting someone attend 3 times. They pay whatever they need to pay for to attend those meeting (dinner, drinks and etc). After the 3rd meeting they either join the PWNA ($195) or they don't. I think that's fair all the way around. Just my opinion though:)

okay...back to the subject of RoundTable.

We are planning to have a roundtable out here after the convention. Craig, Jon, Alan, myself and hopefully a few more will most likely be in attendance.

[John T 744]

Carlos,

I think your thoughts here are right on. $195 is not a whole heck of alot of money and to be honest if the organization was able to make it $50 a year for membership there will be people saying that why not make it $25 etc. etc. This is how these conversations end up going all the time which is why you see alot of PWNA members no longer addressing this like I am now.

Anyway what was the Roundtable question again :)

[Henry B. 4]

A trial memberships not a bad idea but think about this for a moment...

PWNA membership for less than $20 a month.

Is there anyone out there that has not learned a time or cost saving method worth $20 a month?

I think the members of PWNA are lucky to have the advantages they have over companies like myself that started out alone in the dark ages..lol

No internet, no sharing of info or help in any way. I know I'm not the only guy that started out like that either. Even the three basic tips I give out to anyone starting a company is worth $20. Let alone all the other information from the rest of you. Some of you guys have years of marketing experiance that you just can't buy.

[newlook 265]

John,

Definately true about if membership was $50 then we would be asking for it to be at $25. I never had any complaints about the $195 and it was never a reason for me to not join. I was more interested in hearing and seeing the "pulse" of the organization and what momentum the PWNA has going into '05.

Certainly there are things about the organization that ponders my thoughts and forces me to question certain things but to me that is not a "deal killer".

In general, I think the PWNA is on the right track. The infrastructure appears to be in tact ~ membership is slowly on the rise ~ inclusion vs. exclusion seems to carry most threads ~ proactive goals are being discussed and formulated ~ Local chapters are headed in the right direction ~ doesn't appear to be any "in"fighting going on with the BOD i.e. everybody looks to be on the same page ~ wealth of power washing knowledge from both members and nonmembers!

Is all this worth $195...yep without a doubt. I have been part of this BB and the PWNA BB for almost 2 years I guess. I have listened and watched a progression of slow progress over the years with the PWNA. Yes it has been slow but at least it has been moving in the right direction. If the PWNA can sustain that progress then that is a recipe for success.

Anyway, what was the Roundtable question about again :) :)

[Celeste 341]

Hey, we paid our $195 and are now getting ready to contribute our time & energy - we'll either find more members that want to do the same or we'll find folks that don't.

Either way, I still want as much input as I can get on holding a successful Roundtable!

Celeste

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Matthew, your wife's idea, although some may think it is funny, does have some merit. Local chapters should have some way or another of fund-raising if only just to keep local chapter expenses to a minimum so that we can effectively make ourselves known without having to go to the BoD for money. The big question on this is how to raise money - clearly one cannot compete with other type non-profits that are in place to benefit homeless or the enviroment - something that touches the human nature side. However, what if a local chapter sponsors an event that one could purchase a raffle ticket for. If the "Clean Across America" was more widely recognized, folks may be inclined to hire for services if they thought that some of their money was going back in to the beautification of their community. Now before anyone gets their panties in a wad about costs involved again......the one thing I learned about non-profits is that if the members don't sacrifice & volunteer their time and talent, the organization will never reach it's full potential. It is going to take 100 Everett's and 100 John T's and the same 100 of every other person that have been the groundbreakers for the past several years. The organization is only as strong as it's members. Some people will never join if they aren't getting something financial in return..fine, they don't join. If your only reason to join an organization is to get something in return for your money, you should probably keep it to spend on something that you can physically touch. The key is to find members who all share the same vision and that will work together as part of the team to make the vision happen.

Now, if I could have just put out there what specifically the vision is, my speech would have been complete.

Celeste

I get the message, LOL thanks.

[newlook 265]

Celeste,

You would certainly bring a wealth of knowledge and progressive ideas to any round table...Your state is lucky to have you! Good luck and I guess we will see you in the trenches :)

[Henry B. 4]

Hey Carlos, I agree. Celeste is definetly a special asset to her area and power washing in general. It's pretty rare for woman like Celeste and Beth to be so involved in things like this and I think it's great that they care so much.

[Mike 64]

Mike we are hosting our with a vendor(Steven Rowlett) so if you have a good relationship with a vendor and don't mind them making some sales then by all means include them.A vendor can help attendance if they are well know within the industry or at the very least the region you are hosting a meeting in.

I posted on all of the PWing BBS about the meeting with hotel details and specifics for the lunch.Traditionally R/T meeting are held on Feb and Oct but, I think anytime you can get othes to get together to exchange info and ideas it's a good time.

I found the hotel and arranged the rate for the meeting on Feb 5th here in SWGA.I will also make sure that Hooters has enough room to accomidate the group and I have reserved a place close by for us all to meet.Actual cost to us for hosting will be $25 for the meeting hall.

In the next week or so I will be mailing out invites to the local competition.This will give them a chance to see what is going on in other parts of the country(we will have people from AL,LA,GA,TN,FL, and maybe NY,PA and CT)as well as to meet me.Without getting to specific with them on pricing(don't want to be accused of price fixing) I to make them realize that lowballing prices hurts us all.Also,I want then to see what they are up against,and how important it is to stay on top of the latest trend within the industry.I would rather consider them friends than competition and if they need help or I need help we can have a working realtionship.

Thanks for the good information Scott, I've heard alot of good things about Steve and I wish I had a chance to make it down there for the roundtable. Let us know how things go afterwards. Maybe next time we can have it in Tennessee (in the middle) so us snowbirds can make it down too! Thanks again for the advice & information.

1. pick a date - allow yourself a good 30 daysin advance of the meeting, and watch out for holidays and sporting events (been there done that!)

2. find a location - a quiet restaurant works well, one with a meeting room. talk to them ans secure the room.

3. call everyeone in the phone book, anyone you have flyers or ads for, anyone you see who advertises in the paper. Also post the info on all the BBS's you can.

4. invite a vendor to come in and demo equipment. Invite guys to drive in their rigs. Put toghether an agenda of thisngs to discuss.

5. do follow up and reminder calls with those you invite and alos email and fax them info. People like to have something in their hands - everyone is so busy it will often be forgotten otherwise, very innocently.

More Great Suggestions, Thanks Beth!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

First off, I am really glad to see such a great thread. Round tables or chapter chat, this is all important stuff. I want to thank Everett for chiming in. His experience with round tables and the formation of PWNA chapters is excellent. We have also hosted quite a few round tables and will continue to do so, as we have a number of folks that have come to expect them and enjoy them.

This is a PWNA friendly BBS. We encourage open discussion about the industry and also constructive comments and ideas about PWNA. Just as we would not bash people here, we will not bash PWNA. We encourage the BOD to respond on TGS and help to answer any PWNA questions. Just wanted to be clear there.

Keep the voice alive, keep asking questions and working in your own ways to improve our industry and raise the standards of professionalism. Regardless of your affiliation with PWNA, it does help us all.

Beth