Nasty Redwood House

[Celeste 341]

We have been asked to clean (not stain yet) a redwood home. The last pressure washer left quite a mess behind 2 years ago as well as removing most of the sealant. The house sits on a pond (not that living in the mildew capital state of the world isn't enough) so there is a definite mildew problem. We are also to wash the roof. They just stained their deck last year and do not want it touched.

So......suggestions? At this point, we're thinking that a sodium hydroxide product for the roof will cause more damage to the deck below than bleach so the roof gets the bleach treatment. We're thinking that the house is already so bare that a percarbonate cleaning will be the way to go (also less chance of altering the deck)

This house is on the market so I really doubt that they're going to go the way of a proper prep treatment for staining.

The biggest thing we're questioning is that it's redwood - is there anything special that has to be done to redwood that we would normally do or not do with our standard PT wood experience?

Here are some partial pics of the house as well as one of the "signature" of the last P/W there. Any help is much appreciated

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

One thing I should mention is that percarbs make redwood turn dark and brightening doesnt always bring back the natural color.

That said, are they wanting the stain to be a solid or semi-transparent?

Doing any work around a recently coated deck is likely to have an effect on it. Devils advocate here...

They did this kind of bassackwards didnt they? But I guess thats what you have to work with...

You could get away with a SH based cleaner for the roof if you have someone who can rinse the deck keeping it wet while the roof is being cleaned. Same for the siding around the deck.

Rod~

[Celeste 341]

Yes, things are a bit off on this one....like I said the house is on the market so they're just not going to go for the whole job (not at the price we will be quoting on it). Realtor has asked for a house and roof wash.

So if we use a percarb cleaner, we're going to have to come back and use oxalic? These people are not going to pay what we're going to charge to have to do 2-3 applications of anything I'm sure.

I'm certain that we're going to be laying plastic on the deck and I can always be on there with the small washer or their garden hose rinsing the thing to death. They used a Cabot's clear sealer on this redwood deck last summer. The verticals still look great, beading water, etc... Floor could stand some attention but again - house and roof wash.

Why couldn't this be the NEW homeowner!!!!!! BTW, the asking price on this home (along with the 36 acres) is $509,000 if that give folks an idea of what pricing is like in our neck of the woods.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

So.......they want the cadillac for the vw price?!?!?!?

Tell em they will get it all back at the settlement table when the house is appraised looking alot better!

btw, nice chunk o change for that property.

Rod~

[Celeste 341]

Yeah yeah yeah.........we thought about doing the work and letting it get paid when the house closes but I am a HUGE chicken! What if it never sells - bad bad bad!

So back to the question......if we wash with percarb, we will still have to apply the oxalic?

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

yes...

Rod~

[James 625]

give them two prices one just cleaning with bleach to get rid of the mildew and to doing the per-carbs- When using the bleach for the whole house keep the solution the same all the time( measured). Looks like they want a slam bang job. Sell'ers don't spend if they do it's a cover up!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Plleeeeeeaaase do not clean it with bleach. This is a soft wood, not a hard wood, and would be more detrimental to the soft fibers than if applied to hard wood.

Beth

[James 625]

Beth sometimes I just don't think you know what your talking about or have the experiance- It's simple bleach is an option- I've done a historic restorations using bleach and look at shanes work. And how did the Cabot Rep say to clean wood at the round table ? bleach

[John T 744]

Yes the Cabot Rep did say that. He also added that even though bleach does do a good job when you know how to use it you have to be careful when you mix the bleach with other soaps. Because If I understood him correctly once you do that like we all do if something was to go wrong such as one of your workers getting it in there eyes you could be held liable big time because when you mix products you now become like a manufacturer and you must have MSDS sheets on your mixture. That I found very interesting.

But yes The Cabot Rep did say you can use Bleach and he was excellent as a speaker. He also said that some in the industry are against bleach and some are for it. I know from one or two Vendors telling me that they will almost always say bleach is no good because that way they can sell other cleaners at a much higher cost just to do what Bleach does but included in that cost is the MSDS sheets where you won't have that when you mix your own brew. Knowing how to use chemicals is the key.

[JFife 14]

Celeste,

Walk off and wait for the new homeowner, and contact them for a full job. At best, what would you get for a washing?? $500-$1000, days work?? For what they are wanting (don't touch deck, no stain, no strip) you are running a far better chance of causing yourself trouble. If you wash with a chem, you'll felt the wood and they'll blame you and want you to sand it. Nah, not for the up-side of $1000. Give them a bid to do it right, strip, sand, stain, and tell them they'll get it back at the sale. Otherwise, run.

[Celeste 341]

To the anti-bleach folk:

We went to the California Redwood Association website.....guess what they say to use to clean redwood....bleach & TSP. This is not a site for a product either. They also have links to the Forestry folks there. Now what?

(Nothing like starting up the old bleach debate!)

Celeste

[Duane Case 14]

In my experience, bleach is great on mildew and molds, but they are ineffective at removing UV degredation. Your pictures seem to indicate that much of the graying is on UV degredation. I would personally use a percarbonate and oxalic acid to clean and brighten without requiring excessive pressure. I have done only a few redwood swing sets and a couple of redwood decks (no a lot of it up in the Norhteast), but it is more challenging to brighten. Do a test section and see if the owner is satisfied with the results.

Also, go for the bleach treatment on the roof. you will still need to rinse the deck below, but you are a lot less likely to ruin (and substantially darken) the redwood deck below. Redwood has enough tanins to challenge you, you don't need sodium hydroxide or sodium metascilate to darken the wood even further.

Duane

[Celeste 341]

Duane, this homeowner used Cabot's Bleaching Oil to accelerate the graying process ... our biggest concern is changing the entire look of the house for just a housewash price.

Carlos, in your REEP program, what do you do if they decide not to sell?

Celeste

[Duane Case 14]

Just a quick note, I know I'm a newbie here, but just for a little background, I've been doing some form of powerwashing every year since 1992 and in business for myself since 1997.

Celeste,

I don't want you to read my last post wrong. I put that up as an afterthought of my previous message not realizing you were going to post so quickly.

I had misunderstood (missed) the Cabot's part. I am not a big fan of bleach when I can avoid it, but if you can dillute it to the minimum necessary to effectively remove the mildew/mold, go for it. run a test pattern to make sure that the wood does not brighten to a renewed appearance with the bleach.

Oh yeah... rinse, rinse, rinse...

Duane

[newlook 265]

Hi Celeste,

We have our contract worded that if the seller decides to not sale after the work is done then we still charge them .... that is if the contract is with the seller. The majority of our contracts under the REEP Program are with real estate agents. If that is the case, then we take the loss. Again, REEP can be marketed to either the seller themselves or to a real estate agent.

Is the redwood house a spinoff of what I emailed you?

[Celeste 341]

Yep - but I think if we take your approach (after further conversation w/ you) we'll be presenting the el cheapo wash with disclaimer to the agent and the full service project to the seller. I'll call you tomorrow about it if that works for you :)

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jim,

I know a percarb is gentler on wood that sodium hypochlorite is. Rod and I do have expereince. I also wish that as a proponenet of bleach you would give the ratios you use and share your methods. We have seen bleach damage first hand, and if someone doesn't know how to use a chem, any chem, to get desired results then it is better to err on the side of caution. We get fabulous results, we are not inexperienced, and we know what will harm wood. You say you know how to use bleach without harming the wood, fine. Share it then...better to share what you know about how to use it than to tell someone to use it and not tell how, which could result in improper application resulting in damage.

Beth

[James 625]

203-754-4284- Expert in Woodcare

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Perhaps Shane will share his techniques on using bleach...

Beth :groovy:

[newlook 265]

Celeste,

Sure...hit me on my mobile 707.812.3702 or call the office and I will get back to you later in the day. Either way lets touch base.

[JFife 14]

Celeste,

If you insist on washing, just use water. Even if you give a disclaimer, is a pissed off customer worth 1K?? If you use bleach, percarb, etc, it is going to change the appearance of the home significantly, and most likely effect the deck somewhat. I just don't think you should attach your name to a blow-and-go job, even if that is what they want. Trust me, your downside to this job is far greater than the upside. It sounds like you've never worked on redwood before, and this wouldn't be the best place for you to start in my opinion. I'm never one to discourage a person from taking a risk on a job, but you at least need the opportunity for a big upside, and it is not here on this job. Spend the day full of stress, dissapointment and aggrevation that you would have if you did this job going door-to-door and offering vinyl house washing for $125, and you'll come out far better in my opinion. I won't say anymore, good luck with whatever happens.

[newlook 265]

I think certainly with just a water application ~ CarlolinaProWash will do an outstanding job and take very good care of their customer. I don't think "Splash and Dash" or "Blow and Go" is in their vocabulary.

[Celeste 341]

Thank you for your candid view, John - it much appreciated and we have taken it as an option as well. In our search for a solution to this we have now come across another chemical from Permachink that we can wash with - diluted down, it will not harm the deck at all, it will remove the mildew, it is safe on glass and it's very affordable. There is no bleach nor percarbonate and no risk of lopsided coloration upon finishing the wash. The only disclaimer we will need with this process is that it is not a substitute for correctly prepping the wood for restaining.

YIPPEE - persistence pays off :)

Celeste

P.S. Thanks for the cheering section Carlos :)

[JFife 14]

I said I wouldn't say anymore:)

I am familiar with the product you speak of, it is made for maintaining their finishes without removing the product. Are you going to apply and rinse with a hose?? If you pressurewash, you'll either have to do it thoroughly and get back to bare wood (2-3 day job) or spray at a distance and cause blotchiness. IF you don't wash/clean properly, the results will look far worse than the home looks now. Cleaning properly will cause felting without a doubt, so make sure to disclaim that. Bid accordingly, this is a big job, and will be nothing like washing a vinyl/aluminum/siding house. Don't forget about water intrusion, that can happen on wood sided homes in areas, so have someone keep an eye on it.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jon's right. :) Hey Jon, great seeing you up here again. :)

Beth