where is pwna??

[JFife 14]

I went to the pwna board today for the first time in ages, and I got to thinking, I never hear anyone talking about it anymore. I remember beth and rod and Mike Hughes were all really involved, but i don't hear about it anymore. I don't really keep up with the pwna, as I don't see it as something that would help my biz that much, and I don't really keep up with the current happenings and debates about the pwna either. I was just wondering, are everett, beth, mike, ron **********, and all the others that were so involved still big on this?? I'm not trying to start another pwna fight, I am just curious about those people, and if they aren't involved anymore, I'd like to know why. If this is a sore subject, kill the thread or erase it, i'm just being nosy.

jon

[Celeste 341]

The PWNA is still very much alive and kicking....they did make some changes on the bbs...non-members have limited viewing and posting privileges. Professional State Chapters are in the making. Many of the same folks are invoved as before.

Celeste

[squirtgun 122]

Professional State Chapters

Is this the terminology the PWNA using to promote the chapters to new members?

[Celeste 341]

Kinda - the are referred to Professional State Chapters within the PWNA but I think they are going to be called PWNA Georgia, PWNA North Carolina, etc... The Chapters are self-governing, retain a portion of membership dues, and pretty much function outside of the National PWNA, but under the guidelines that have been approved by PWNA. It's taking the bulk of the responsibility of the National organization and placed it on a local level. Members are not relying on someone 3000 miles away to attend to issues that pertain to their state, etc...

[Henry B. 4]

The PWNA is in the process of making some huge steps this year that will do even more for the members and our clients. The local chapters will bring the PWNA to your area and help you raise the bar and promote the ethics and standards of the professional power washing industry in your home town!

[squirtgun 122]

Celeste,

Thank you for the response.I can see the use of the term within the PWNA.I could see issues arising between non-member companies and the PWNA if it were being promoted to the general public using that terminology.(i.e. I think it would cause tension if the PWNA was promoting it as the only professional pressure washing companies are PWNA and PWNA state chapter members)

Henry,

You use to give some of the most honest,informative answers on the PWNA.Now it's appears you have a cookie cutter copy/paste answer.

P.S. I'm not a member and I do everything I can to raise the bar in my hometown daily.You still miss the point that just because we all are PWNA members doesn't mean we aren't all working toward the same goal.

[Celeste 341]

Also, just because one chooses not to join the organization, it does not mean that non-members are not ever welcome to the chapter functions...there will be a charge involved (that ALL will be paying) only slightly higher for non-members. Let me go ahead and say that the money raised from these meetings go for general expenses of running an organization ie, postage, meals, promotion, etc... - not salaries or bs stuff. I personally would love to think that when we get our round table together in September, that you (Scott and Angela) would think about making it up here :)

Celeste

[Henry B. 4]

I don't think anyone has ever said that non members are less professional than members. I don't get your cookie cutter comment, every post I make is exactly how I feel about a topic. If you don't like what I have to say, sorry...

I just know how much the Maryland chapter is going to raise the bar in this area!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You're right - it will. And participation in Maryland is something we have been working on for the past several years via roundtables, and discussions about chapters. It's nice that it is finally to the level of participation it is, to be able to form the chapter.

Beth

[Mike 64]

I just know how much the Maryland chapter is going to raise the bar in this area!

Henry,

Would you care to explain to us how the pwna is going to "raise the bar"? I guess I am missing something here.

[Henry B. 4]

By education, information and by helping teach people the proper techniques for power washing different surfaces. Also by helping to educate our clients so they know there's more to power washing than just spraying high PSI water around.

Sometimes it's better to get information from another source than the guy that's trying to sell you a job for 50% more than the estimate you got yesterday from a guy with no insurance or experience.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The PWNA began working on chapters a couple of years ago, it took a while to work out the details for the first one. Everett did a great job launching the first chapter and laying the ground work for others to follow last year.

The important thing to remember, is the large the project the longer it takes to accomplish what you want to do.

Beth

[Mike 64]

.....well comments like "Sometimes it's better to get information from another source than the guy that's trying to sell you a job for 50% more than the estimate you got yesterday from a guy with no insurance or experience." really wont help it get done any quicker. What I get from that is that if one is not a member of the local chapter he will be made out to look like a guy who doesnt care, doesnt have insurance and doesnt have any experience.........

[squirtgun 122]

Mike,

The PWNA also fails to see the fact that LEGIT NON MEMBER compaines( with insurance & license) can hurt them as much as they can hurt us.I can not for the life of me understand why some PWNA members(not all) have to act like it's an "US AGIANST THEM" situation.When in actuality it's all of the LEGIT companies against the hacks,PWNA members or not.

I have tried to explain this view point on the PWNA site (before non-members were locked out) and other places only to have it fall on deaf ears or narrow minds which ever the case is or was.

Also having the highest price doesn't mean you are the best in the game.I have seen plenty of higher priced companies do a fine job of tearing up someones home or business.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

I agree with you Scott... It is all of us against the hacks. I don't percieve the situation as us against them (non-members verses PWNA members), but the reality is that If I belonged to an organization (ie. BJ's Wholesale club) I expect to get treated a little different and recieve benifits than a non-member would. A non-member of BJ's pays a 5 percent surcharge on purchases and more per gallon for gas than members do.

It is not BJ's intention to alienate non-members, every member they have was a non-member at one point and the same goes for the PWNA.

I put the PWNA logo and the organization to work for me. I will give you an example. THier clean across america program is running again this summer. I sent a nice letter (with the PWNA logo and Clean Across AMerica Logo) to the local papers explaining the program and asking for thier assistance to find not-for profit organizations to do charity work. THe main paper ran a small story four days after I sent the letter to them. The just wrote up the program and a little spiel about my company and that I was the only contractor in the county certified by the PWNA in wood restoration ect.

In two weeks, for this free story, I have recieved 26 phone calls for deck jobs. Is this worth my 195.00 membership fee... Absolutely and another paper is doing a business story on my business, the PWNA, and the clean across america campaign to (as the editor put it) "increase awareness of your business, the PWNA and help you find places to clean. What is the value of this Public relation exposure in dollars and cents?

So back to the story: Is this likly to offend non-members who read this. Yes it is... If I sent the story without PWNA involvement to the paper and asked them for help, would I get it? Probably, but not nearly on the level I am getting the exposure now. Do the non-members now percieve this as "us against me", probably. But what I don't know is how I can change this other than try to put a plug in the article about competent non-members and how the customers should also use them...

That's not happening...I will use the opportunities to promote my business via my PWNA affialiation and I see it as a courtesy that I use the same opportunity to promote the PWNA. If I had another contractor who was a member and they wanted to do this as a joint venture... I would gladly participate. It is the PWNA's strength in numbers that is promoting the program. I paid for the right to use this.

There are a lot of legit non-member companies... I was one until I joined and you are one now. I have not, nor will I trash talk about a non-member company and as Professionals, I would expect a reciprical courtesy of the same.

I, for some reason, get a lot of calls from people in the PWing business around the country... I don't think I have ever asked if they were a member of the PWNA. I talk with them to learn about the trade and promoting my business.

Scott, tell me how we all can change the perception of the us against them. I understand that the closing of the PWNA BBS really alienated some non-members, As a member, I thought it was a huge mistake and total BS. THen I separated emotion and evaluated the move from a business sense.

Why should an organization spend time defending ridicule on thier BBS about the BBS organization. THe reality is this... Go to The cleaner network and start ridiculing his chemicals and see how it flies. Go to the other respective boards and critisize Dan F., Ron M. or the owners of Delco. The reality is they would boot you off. But then, everyone cries sensorship (as I did also). Ya can't win... If I Walked into the front of walmart and started screaming about how they sucked, ranting and raving, I would be asked to leave..and when I didn't, I would be esorted out.

I feel that often what is written by members and non-members in these post is taken out of context to stir the pot and I don't understand why. If Jim from Kalamazoo doesn't want to belong to the PWNA, what do I care and vice/versa.

If there is a way we can change the perception of us verses them post it.

[Mike 64]

Mathew, if wal-mart kicked you out for screaming like you claimed, they would have not kicked everyone else out who wasent screaming. Anyways, your comparing a major dept store to an internet bbs, apples to oranges.

Glad to hear you had success using the pwna as a marketing tool. I would like to think that a newspaper would help anyone who wants to do charity work and help others out no matter who they were, but kudos to you for helping out those in need.

The problem I have is when I continue to read things like .... The customer can choose between a pwna local chapter member or an unprofesional, unlicensed, unexperienced company.... Tell that to the THOUSANDS of companys that are not pwna members .....

The pwna works for you and your company and thats great, I prefer to spend 195.00 in ad's and not on a logo that doesnt mean much in my neck of the woods.

By the way, you have a nice web page, did you make it yourself or have help?

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Did the web page myself... Thanks

Matt

[Mike 64]

Let me say after re reading my thread, I want to make it clear I am not against the pwna, at this time its just not for me. Some things they do I agree with, some things I dont. I applaud their effort in providing education for companies and I would like to see them expand on that as well and not get so envolved in politics and be open with membership.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Mathew, if wal-mart kicked you out for screaming like you claimed, they would have not kicked everyone else out who wasent screaming. Anyways, your comparing a major dept store to an internet bbs, apples to oranges.

Glad to hear you had success using the pwna as a marketing tool. I would like to think that a newspaper would help anyone who wants to do charity work and help others out no matter who they were, but kudos to you for helping out those in need.

The problem I have is when I continue to read things like .... The customer can choose between a pwna local chapter member or an unprofesional, unlicensed, unexperienced company.... Tell that to the THOUSANDS of companys that are not pwna members .....

The pwna works for you and your company and thats great, I prefer to spend 195.00 in ad's and not on a logo that doesnt mean much in my neck of the woods.

By the way, you have a nice web page, did you make it yourself or have help?

I can respect your choice not to join... The PWNA logo didn't mean much in my area either... I chose to make it mean something.. I hope non-members don't take the PWNA promoting itsself personal.. It is basic business. .. There are unlicensed, uninsured and inexperienced companies out there..everyone knows it, and even experienced professional non-member companies like youself would promote your business like the PWNA is doing and to make the consumer aware that they should avoid the low-ballin beer money contractor.

I still fail to understand why this offends people so.... If a company or agency says something bad about the nursing profession and its nurses (I am a full time CCRN) and it doesnt apply to me or isn't true... I ignore it.

Years ago (1983) I got caugt up in the gossip - hubbub and bickering at a place I worked. An old boss called me into her office and gave two solid pieced of advise "significant people worry about significant things" and "you are either part of the problem or part of the solution, but you can't be both".... Right after that second statement, I lost my job...

Matt

[squirtgun 122]

Matt,

Honestly at this point I am in a wait and see mode with what the PWNA is working toward.I don't dislike anyone because they are members,although,I may not share their view point on every issue.

How to squash the "us against them" attitude?I think the PWNA has to go back to recognizing non-member companies who are legit as just that.Educating the general public about how important a license and insurance are should be first and foremost.

The projected image that most(within the industry) preceive is the PWNA refuses to make the public aware that there are contractors outside of the PWNA that are qualified to handle the job.I agee there is a benefit of membership but for the PWNA to say they and their members are the only option consumers have when it comes to pressure washing is insane and untrue.

Our company does several charity works per year that were inspired by the CAA campaign.I think it's a positive way to promote the trade and our company and I'm all for teaching potential customer the importance of hiring contractors who are legit.

In the past I have said if the PWNA wants to be the voice of the industry they must represent non-members(at some level) and members(yes,there are more benefits with membership) alike.For some BOD members this idea is outrageous but for there to be a positive energy from all in the trade who are legit it's something that will have to happen sooner or later.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Scott makes an excellent point. Being a member of PWNA is not for all, but may very well help if you join. Being a member has no bearing on if a contractor is licensed, professional, carrying insurance. However, if you feel companies are positioning themselves this way, you are probably right. In fact, being licensed is not an indication of quality either, as it has to do with businesses being legal but doesn't have to do with what you do or how you do it. (job site wise)

Being a member of PWNA is similar to being a member of the Better Business Bureau in that you may find consumers will get a little more comfort if you are a member. It might make them feel more at ease with your company. Is it worth it? That's a personal business decision.

We may not agree with PWNA all of the time, but we do see benefit in the organization. If I didn't feel it was worth it, I would not have spent two years helping as much as I did. I'm willing to bet that the next 12-24 months you will see some record growth, and very positive things going on.

Have a great day all!

Beth

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Matt,

Honestly at this point I am in a wait and see mode with what the PWNA is working toward.I don't dislike anyone because they are members,although,I may not share their view point on every issue.

How to squash the "us against them" attitude?I think the PWNA has to go back to recognizing non-member companies who are legit as just that.Educating the general public about how important a license and insurance are should be first and foremost.

The projected image that most(within the industry) preceive is the PWNA refuses to make the public aware that there are contractors outside of the PWNA that are qualified to handle the job.I agee there is a benefit of membership but for the PWNA to say they are their and their members are the only option consumers have when it comes to pressure washing is insane and untrue.

Our company does several charity works per year that were inspired by the CAA campaign.I think it's a positive way to promote the trade and our company and I'm all for teaching potential customer the importance of hiring contractors who are legit.

In the past I have said if the PWNA wants to be the voice of the industry they must represent non-members(at some level) and members(yes,there are more benefits with membership) alike.For some BOD members this idea is outrageous but for there to be a positive energy from all in the trade who are legit it's something that will have to happen sooner or later.

I hear what you are saying.... but in reality, and I use this anology the best I can ( and I do not spologize if folks take offense to this) Sears does not promote Walmart... even though they are both good retail stores, with the same product line and the same trained salepeople... It just doesent happen. It can't. If I had 500 shares of Sears stock (a small amount, but I would still be a stockholder) and Sears put a positive blurp about other retail stores in thier advertising.... There would be a lot of new faces in Sears Corperate Offices. The goal of Sears and any other business out there, Pressure Washing, Hair Salon or Restaurant, is to advertise to get market share. THe stockholders demand it. Sears doesn't bash walmart... they try to present an image that is more professional and they try to offer a better value for your money.. Walmart does the same. It is basic business.

Reality is this. If the PWNA promoted all businesses, members or not, I think two thinks would happen. No one would join (they wouldn't need to) and paying members would leave.

My perception that I see on different BBS post is that when the PWNA references non-insured, unprofessional companies is that all non-member companies think it is directed at them.

I will use the PWNA organization membership in my area to gain market share... I don't bad mouth companies who aren't members... I don't have to. I just let the customer know that I am a member and that I am wood certified; the PWNA mission statement is on my contracts / quotes right below where the customer signs. It works..

Scott, As for the direction of the PWNA... I am inpatient and I want to see tangible things happen daily and quickly within that organization. It is an unrrealistic expectation for me. However, I am optamistic about the direction of the PWNA... I too, was in the wait and see mode when they closed the BBS. I am a whole less anxious about it now that I have put the LOGO to work for me and I am getting tangible results daily... in the form of cash.

[squirtgun 122]

I'm not saying the PWNA must promote non-member companies above member companies.If a homeowner/businessowner contacts the PWNA and is seeking a contractor in his/her area and there is no PWNA member within reasonable distance to that potentail customer,wouldn't it then be prudent for the PWNA to recommend to that potential customer a way to find a non-member company that is qualified to handle the job(i.e. insurance,license,etc.).

My perception that I see on different BBS post is that when the PWNA references non-insured, unprofessional companies is that all non-member companies think it is directed at them.

All to often this has been the case in the past.It's been used as an underhanded way of slapping non-members in the face so to speak.

[Henry B. 4]

Scott makes an excellent point. Being a member of PWNA is not for all, but may very well help if you join. Being a member has no bearing on if a contractor is licensed, professional, carrying insurance.

This statement is now outdated, all members of PWNA are required to show proof of insurance and a state business license if required by the state. The existing members will be required to provide this information when they renew their membership.

However, if you feel companies are positioning themselves this way, you are probably right. In fact, being licensed is not an indication of quality either, as it has to do with businesses being legal but doesn't have to do with what you do or how you do it. (job site wise)

Your correct, having a license or insurance does not mean you know how to do it, it does show that your a legal and legitament company though and in may cases that alone will get you the job.

I'm not saying the PWNA must promote non-member companies above member companies.If a homeowner/businessowner contacts the PWNA and is seeking a contractor in his/her area and there is no PWNA member within reasonable distance to that potentail customer,wouldn't it then be prudent for the PWNA to recommend to that potential customer a way to find a non-member company that is qualified to handle the job(i.e. insurance,license,etc.).

Why would the PWNA do that? to open itself up to liability for someone that doesn't even want to support the organization?

My perception that I see on different BBS post is that when the PWNA references non-insured, unprofessional companies is that all non-member companies think it is directed at them. All to often this has been the case in the past.It's been used as an underhanded way of slapping non-members in the face so to speak.

I'm sorry that people feel that way but I don't think it's being done on purpose, I think it's just the way people are seeing it. I think people are proud of their PWNA membership and if they want to talk about it and what it's done for them it's completly up to them. If you don't want to join for whatever reason thats completly up to you but it seems to me that it's the companies that aren't members that are playing up the us against them thing the most.

Why is this us against PWNA members always coming up? It's those companies that choose not to be PWNA members that are making these kind of comments, if you don't want to join that's fine but, IT'S YOUR CHOICE! so in fact it's you that have chosen not to be a member. If that's your choice why complain that the PWNA is making you feel like a non member or less than? You have the power to change that by joining. If you don't want to join then what are you complaining about? That you chose not to join?

I don't think of a non member as being less of a professional than a member, if you feel that way then it's your perception that's causing this. I chat with companies all over the country EVERY DAY and give them advice or refer them to someone that can help them if I can't. I don't care if they are members or not, If you do, then either join or just go on doing what you do now but why complain about something when you have the choice to join or not to join, that just doesn't make sense and it's a waste of your time.

[Celeste 341]

Let's throw another name out there for comparison that pertains to the industry. The National Association of Home Builders is a national organization - you want to join up and take advantage of what they can offer their members, you send in your money and poof, you are a member of the National, State and local chapter. The local chapters meet monthly, the org offers group discounts to members, etc... We decided that it would be a positive thing for our company to display their logo - to indicate that we were a part of something "big" and it has helped. It certainly doesn't mean that we are any more or less qualified than the other pressure washers in our area, only that we a members of something. It works for our company, same as our membership in the PWNA. The PWNA is still working out some bugs but there is a "new excitement" as Everett puts it and there's a more positive attitude toward the changes that are being made inside the organization.

The question was put out there somewhere on another bbs in poll form "Do you think we really need an organization?" Some people do because it gives them a sense of belonging, an little extra oomph to their confidence. Others do not and have been successful for years without it. They are no less professional than anyone else.

My thing is how can it HURT you to be a member.....we are enjoying the same upswing as Matthew and it is in part to our affiliation with the organization.

I also want to reiterate that it's not US the members against THEM the non-members - it's all about US the legal professionals against THEM the lowballing beer money weekend warrior wannabes. Non-members will always be encouraged to attend the chapter meetings and functions, its just going to cost them more to attend - membership must show some benefit. PWNA is not shutting out non-members, we just want to show members that they're getting something for their money.

Ok - off the soap box.

Celeste

[squirtgun 122]

Why would the PWNA do that? to open itself up to liability for someone that doesn't even want to support the organization?

Why wouldn't you EDUCATE them on the importance of checking license,insurance and references?There is no possible way that doing so would be a liability to the PWNA.

Comments like that are the very reason why there is an "us against them" feeling within the industry.I also don't remember complaining.I was merely sharing my view point but on some level it must rattle someone or it would not have drawn replies.

I also want to reiterate that it's not US the members against THEM the non-members - it's all about US the legal professionals against THEM the lowballing beer money weekend warrior wannabes.

Celeste,

If you can ever convince Everett,Pete M,Henry and the other BOD members of the above statement the PWNA might truely see greatness.

I will say it again "If you are going to be the voice of the industry,you are going to have to respresent all of it(member and non-members alike) in one way or another like it or not.

Come on guys stop fearing the darkside.We have milk and cookies,come on over........LOL.