Durability?

[Dale 16]

Does anyone have any experience with the durability of Sikkens Cetol SRD vs. Cabots Austrailian Timber Oil? (Cabots was just aquired by Valspar)

I've been leaning towards ATO since using it last year though the colors are limited but haven't used the SRD yet.

I preped and sealed a clients new cedar deck 2 years ago using Rymars Natural Cedar. The client wanted a clear because the wood looked so beautiful with just a wet look. I warned him about the zero durability of clears and the Rymar was a pretty light tone so he wanted that....well 1 yr. later it sucked and this yr. it looks totally shot....guess who's fault it is? lol.

The guys easy going and money is not a problem but he wants something to last more than a year and a half. I suggested the Amberwood...mentioned the Natural and he says "If the Natural is just as durable..use that." I think he still doesn't quite get it. I'm almost afraid to mention the SRD's Natural light or Natural Oak...but I will if someone has experience with them and found them to be about as durable as the Amberwood.

The deck is on a narrow point on a large lake so theres lake on 3 sides but the house is set back a couple hundred feet so with all the mature pine trees UV isn't as much of a problem as the debris on the deck..theres a large pine tree sticking thru the deck so theres needles, bark, small branches, etc.everywhere...not a lot but enough to hold some moisture and provide food for surface mildew. Its elevated about 3 feet off the ground. .The family is only up 8-9 times a summer so it doesn't get swept off much. What do you think?? is it pretty much a toss up between ATO and SRD?

Thanks,

Dale

[PressurePros 248]

The Austalian Timber Oil is an awesome product for hardwoods, but that is all I use it on. It doesn't have the durability (at least in my experience) on PTP, Cedar or Redwood. You will get the same effect with the ATO.. next year it will be faded significantly and the year after that, history. You are going to have to go with a more substantial product. I cannot tell you if the SRD will hold up any better because I haven't used it.

[Everett Abrams 501]

The "Aussie Oil" works well on any wood. Cabot won't release their findings because it would eliminate a line brand of their product but they have tested it soft woods. The Timber Oils last longer and out perform their 3000 series on soft woods. I have gone to decks that have lasted three years. It is easier to maintain and recoat these decks because the Timber Oils are more penetrating than the 3000 series. Another nice feature of a more pentrating product on softwoods like cedar is that since it is made for hardwoods it provides a more even coat around the knotty areas that the other products leave more inconsistent.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We put Aussie on a very neglected Cedar home last year. It penetrated really well. We went with it for the reasons Everett stated above. Occasionally, we will apply it to things other than Ipe or Teak...

Beth

[PressurePros 248]

I love the aussie oil's color and richness. I would prefer to use it all the time as it is available locally. I'm really opposed to stocking 50 gallon drums of multiple colors for all the obvious reasons. My results on a PTP deck with ATO were less than fantastic though. When finished it was ooh ahhh awesome. The following year it was very faded. I guess it depends upon what you are seeking to get from a sealer. I would like 18 months before I have to recoat with just a cleaning or two in between. My guarantee is contingent on cleaning, so I am not excessively worried about mold. That's another qustion though.. Everett, have you had issues with mold remediation using the Cabot's? (ie having to clean more often)

[Everett Abrams 501]

Ken,

Only if this is done with a wet on dry coat. Once this product has dried you can not go over it as it will not get into the wood leaving it ideal for mold and mildew growth. The other thing is not to leave excess, it really needs to be worked evenly.

[Celeste 341]

Everett, you pad and brush everything don't you? I've been told that the Aussie oil is not in the forgiving category when it comes to application (as compared to say Ready Seal). We're getting into some upper end areas now where we may be seeing something other than PT wood!!!!

Celeste

[Dale 16]

Thanks for all the replys everyone. I have no experience with the SRD so it looks like ATO it is on the cedar.

PressurePros, your experience with ATO on pressure treated was not good? I have a dock that I stripped the mold, mildew and grey wood off of with a very diluted stripper then brightened and it looks great. Was thinking about thre ATO on that too but now I have doubts. I have to get it done next week so locally available products are what will be used. Looking for a semi. Any suggestions anyone?

Dale

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Dale,

Here's a recent SRD job we did. It's SRD Natural, applied to Cedar.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3672

We have found SRD is a good product.

Beth

[Dale 16]

Looks good! Ever use it on a pressure treated deck floor or in this case a dock?

Dale

[JFife 14]

Dale,

SRD is as good as anything else. A little tougher to apply than, say, RS or TWP, but about as durable as TWP with better color selection. I like Nat. Oak the best.

[PressurePros 248]

Thanks for all the replys everyone. I have no experience with the SRD so it looks like ATO it is on the cedar.

PressurePros, your experience with ATO on pressure treated was not good? I have a dock that I stripped the mold, mildew and grey wood off of with a very diluted stripper then brightened and it looks great. Was thinking about thre ATO on that too but now I have doubts. I have to get it done next week so locally available products are what will be used. Looking for a semi. Any suggestions anyone?

Dale

Dale, The couple of decks I put it on just faded a little too quickly for what I offer guarantee wise. To give you a frame of reference, it looked about the same as Ready Seal does after a season up here.

[Everett Abrams 501]

Celeste,

Sorry I am just getting back to you. You are correct about Cabot not being as forgiving. I use mostly brush application and use the Bestt-Liebco Chinese Bristle Brushes. I have found these to be the best on the market and also have a threaded handle so that you can interchange with any extension pole or broom handle.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Dale,

Yes we have used SRD on PT lumber, as well as on cedar. Goes on easily, holds up well.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Also, let your customer know that every time the customer walks on cedar, moves furniture etc, that they are literally crushing the wood fibers because cedar is so soft that in essence they are creating the finishes demise just from use. Aussie oil is the best product I can think of for cedar as Everett has passed on to us from his experience because of the long oils that take the color into the wood for a longer lasting finish.

2 years is the most I would give any product. In that time, a maintenance wash and recoat is applicable for aussie oil, WT, SRD and Dek.

Rod~

[Dale 16]

Thanks for the answers and recommendations. I always let clients know a maintenance coat should be done in a couple of years and suggest that they could prolong the look if they simply washed the deck spring and fall with some water/dish detergent and a soft brush/garden hose...they never do. On this particular deck the Rymar didn't look like it needed a maintenance coat..it looked TOTALLY shot. So ATO it is. I used it the first time last year on a deck and didn't think it was too hard to work with and everyone really like the color..a 50/50 Honey Teak and Amberwood..it still looks great but its less than a year so I was wondering how it holds up.

Thanks

Dale

[Dale 16]

Hey I got some great advise from 2 posters at the painters chat room....You can get an increase in durability for semi-trans deck stains by first applying an oil-based semi..let it dry and then apply an acrylic semi over the top. They seem serious but they must be pulling my leg.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

They are pulling your leg. Don't do it.

Beth

[Dale 16]

I never considered doing it...went back and forth for a couple of posts and ended up saying it sounded nuts to me.........until I just read a post at Deckguide from Jim that said he's done it a bunch but with 2 oils Ready Seal to prime and top-coat with a filmer. I ain't gonna do that either. lol.

Dale

[James 624]

Dale it's the best way to make a film last and not to let a product that has a drying oil penitrate to deep that you can't control it. Thats called restoration and knowing how to control your products. Controling the interior of the wood is the key to longevity. If you want durability creating a moisture barrier below a film gives longevity. If you want advise E- mail me !

[Everett Abrams 501]

I have seen what Jim is talking about in tests and it IS THE OPTIMAL way to restore wood. The problem is that it is extra time and time is money. Most people won't pay this amount for their deck because they are also skeptical of just how long it will last. Wood preservatives followed by film formers out perform any other method or way.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Oil on oil, I agree.

Paraffinic, followed by an alkyd or a tung....

I would be cautious about following a paraffinic with an acrylic. I don't care for acrylic products much. I would like even less to have a stripping nightmare on my hands.

I'm curious about which "film formers" folks have tried as a second step?

Beth :cup: :groovy:

[James 624]

Cabot's I forget which one but I use Abr on top of of Rs and Wood Tux on top Of RS- You can use RS clear as a base. some products you have to wait till oil is dry.

[Dale 16]

Thanks James I'll take you up on the offer of advise, theres a couple of other questions I have.

I've used the oil as primer and acrylic top-coat quite a bit and agree its the way to go but I've always used the system on decks or walls that were solid color projects. Its always good to learn something new.

Just so we're all on the same page we're obviously talking 2 semi's..an oil topped with an acrylic or an oil topped with an oil? ABR uses this system with their Pre-finish/finish system and it makes sense, but the products are formulated to function that way. Are there any issues with topping a paraffin like ABR or RS with a veg oil like most other products? I'm surprised that color anticipation isn't an issue with anything but a clear as a base.

It also would have never occured to me to put a wet acrylic over a wet oil ala "wet on wet coating" ..I would have thought that waiting for the oil coat to dry, the semi trans acrylic would just cure on top and lose adhesion. Isn't this the reason for the old "splash test"?

Interesting..live and learn.

[Everett Abrams 501]

Latex outperforms acrylic everytime.

[James 624]

Dale e-mail me your phone number- I'm a bad typer , speller and grammer'er!