Interesting burn on plants.

[PLD 14]

We have been at an townhome complex for two weeks now and Monday we got a call today complaining of burned plants. Apologized profusely, and went to take a look. I found something very odd that I hope someone can shed some light on.

The grass was yellowed pretty badly along one side of the building. The plants all along the base of the wall had some curled leaves as well. At first I thought classic bleach burn. BUT...

1. The degree of the burn would have required a ludicrous concentration of bleach. We run ~0.83% TTW and rinse prodigiously. This was similar to what a good misting of 6% might do.

2. The back side directly adjacent shows no damage to either the plants or grass. In fact, they look like a golf green/nursery. It is as if you pulled a string 45^ from the corner and flipped a coin. Heads burns, tails does not.

3. The tenderest flowers directly in the drip line took the least damage while the heartier bushes in that line and grass farther out (8-20ft) took the worst of it.

4. In the front, two townhomes share a front lawn. The one to the left of the property line (that owns the burned end side) has yellowing in the grass in front also. The one to the right (1cm to the right) is green and lush. Again, it's as if you pulled a string out from the property line. Same bucket of mix, same plants, same building, same grass. Inches apart, but very different outcomes.

If it weren't for the green hose marks where the hose shielded the grass, I'd argue it wasn't our issue. But based on that we obviuosly were involved.

My guesses:

1. The homeowner was using (or was having put on) some sort of fertilizer or pesticide and they reacted badly. Counter point: Why treat 2 of 3 sides with the same types of vegitation?

2. She mentioned that she had this one unit PW/painted 10 days ago and that guy did no damage (none of our people recalled seeing any). Could he have used something that left behind a chemical booby trap waiting to spring? (not on purpose obviously). Counter point: Did he not wash the back?

Of interest: One other building did this in about a 8ft section of a 50ft wall.

Other than that, 31 down all spotless, all damage free. Same crew, same mix, same process. Any ideas what happened here?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Bleach burn at that percentage without rinsing down the area or at least prewetting would be my answer. Hot temps during the day could attribute to what happened to the vegetation in addition to the exposure to your chems.

Rod~

ps, there could have been a reaction to your chems from anything left on the ground by the previous contractor but this is a long shot given no idea of the amount of precipitation in the interim.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Go get a box of miracle grow, and a hose feeder. Go out and heavily feed the effected areas, and tell the the owner to give it a little time before mowing. Have the owner keep the area watered and fed. (leave them the miracle grow and feeder perhpas...) Sometimes, this is enough, sometimes it is not. We recently put sod down in our yard, and this helped us when it started to get sunburned in spots. It's worth a try.

Beth :sunshine: :groovy3:

[CCPC 26]

Some pictures would really help in assesing the situation. I assume you were washing the house not the roof? I've never really had any problems with shrubbs or most plants, but grass is a different story. I'm still having problems from time to time with light burns on St. Augustine grass even when its heavily rinsed. There's also been a few times were I've been accused of damaging plants that were allready in bad shape (usually in the winter when frost is an issue). This is when a digital camera comes in handy. I now try to take before pictures of anything that I feel could potentially be pinned on me after the fact.

[PLD 14]

Bleach burn at that percentage without rinsing down the area or at least prewetting would be my answer. Hot temps during the day could attribute to what happened to the vegetation in addition to the exposure to your chems.

Rod~

ps, there could have been a reaction to your chems from anything left on the ground by the previous contractor but this is a long shot given no idea of the amount of precipitation in the interim.

Outside dew, zero precip for 7+ days.

I'm voting against simple chem burn because we over wet/rinse and the adjacent grass in a 5 unit bldg looks like a golf green. It's very odd, because there is such a dramatic difference between unit "A" and units "B-E" on the same bldg. If it were the whole bldg, faded in, whatever I'd bite. But the property line makes a clear divide between burnt and unburnt.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

do you have a pic you can share?

[Pams Pressure & Clean 64]

A continual cynic, my vote may suggest that the owner is looking for some new sod.

Perhaps they sprayed Roundup on the whole place in hopes of aquiring a new putting green at your expense...

[PLD 14]

do you have a pic you can share?

Yes, the lost alot of detail so it looks like a plain old burn. You definitely cannot see how you could pop a chalk like along burnt and unburnt.

The devil is in the details. Take a look at the front view and see how far from the house the burn extends (>25ft). Also look at how much damage has been done to the grass (it's worse in person) and how little to the flowers in the drip line (they look better in person). Finally from the back corner look at the grass and flowers in back. Green and vibrant. Same chems, same process, no damage there.

From the back corner

Close up of back corner

View from front.

[Paul B. 523]

It's hard to say from this end what had happened.

I agree it would seem hard to burn plants and grass with less than 1% dilution of bleach if pre-wetting and rinsing also takes place. We use stronger concentrations most of the time without causing burns (knock on wood).

You may get a better feel if you ask the customer how they think it should be resolved.

- I never offer an appology before looking at the problem/challange.

- Through the years I have learned to not always offer solutions first (unless it's very simple and straight forward). I normally I ask the customer FIRST, what it would take to satisfy them on resolving the problem. (Why offer $100 when the customer may be willing to settle for $10, etc., etc.) At times I've found that they want nothing more than to tell you and let off steam - Customer satisfaction.

Of course if they start out high (want all plants and grass replaced), you know what you're faced with.

On contracts, make sure it is stated that you have the first option for repair.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We once had a client that had us strip a deck. The strip job was great. We had NOT returned to seal it yet. Then the wife calls and says we killed all the plants. Puzzled, I went to investigate it. The husband had been at home and was ill, and not working. I got there and he started to lecture me. I listened, and calmly walked around to a table on the grass, and picked up the empty can of Thompsons, and the pump up, and asked him if they were his. He got upset further and said we killed all the plants. I walked over to the plants and picked off a couple of leaves, and asked him if they felt oily to him... he said yes, they did. I flipped over the Thompsons can, and read from the lable, where it said to protect plants, and that overspray from them would kill them. Then he turns to the fence ( which we were not hired to do, and didn't touch) and said we had done "that" to the fence. Seems he had taken a power washer to it. Looked like a giant garden slug had crawed all over it.... He demanded we replace the plants, I said I'm sorry, but we aren't replacing the plants that you killed. I took my oily sample leaves and left.

Some people will try to blame you , for things they did themselves. In this case the hubby was very ill, and the wife was too embarrased to admit he did it, so she expected us to take the blame so he could save face. People do strange things.

Beth

[RyanH 14]

White surfaces reflect heat/light. We've had dry conditions in GA for awhile (dirt is cracked and dry even two days after three days of heavy rainfall). That grass looks like a thin-blade variety, which are typically not very heat tolerant in the south.

Is it possible that the burn is a result of the house reflecting a huge portion of heat onto the grass? I know it sounds preposterous, but consider this: while walking around the yard at the house we're building, I felt a sudden blast of heat. Two steps forward, and everything felt fine. Took two steps back, and it was very hot again. I looked at the house and one of the windows was reflecting the sunlight. Being the goober I am, I was carrying a thermocouple in the car at the time (use it on my day job). The dirt in the area catching the reflection was almost 25 degrees warmer than the surrounding area, and there was a very fast fall-off of temperature around the area (conduction through the dirt). My point is that the reflection was enough to raise the temperature of that particular area by a significant amount and it was a very sharply defined region. Perhaps you are seeing a similar situation.

[PLD 14]

White surfaces reflect heat/light. We've had dry conditions in GA for awhile (dirt is cracked and dry even two days after three days of heavy rainfall). That grass looks like a thin-blade variety, which are typically not very heat tolerant in the south.

Is it possible that the burn is a result of the house reflecting a huge portion of heat onto the grass? I know it sounds preposterous, but consider this: while walking around the yard at the house we're building, I felt a sudden blast of heat. Two steps forward, and everything felt fine. Took two steps back, and it was very hot again. I looked at the house and one of the windows was reflecting the sunlight. Being the goober I am, I was carrying a thermocouple in the car at the time (use it on my day job). The dirt in the area catching the reflection was almost 25 degrees warmer than the surrounding area, and there was a very fast fall-off of temperature around the area (conduction through the dirt). My point is that the reflection was enough to raise the temperature of that particular area by a significant amount and it was a very sharply defined region. Perhaps you are seeing a similar situation.

I didn't notice it, but I was out there shortly before dusk. However, the idea has merit. That side faces west and takes the brunt of the afternoon sun. Perhaps the soap and rinse cycle there was normal, but just wasn't fast enough for the different conditions.

FWIW, it was bermuda.

[the_GUNN_man 14]

I have always been told not to water your grass during the day because you can cause it to burn. I do not know if this is true or not. Could that also be a cause? It kinda made sense to me because your skin burns more when you are in the water because of the magnifing effect. Could the same be true for grass if it is too short and you water it in direct sunlight?

Just trying to throw something else out there.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yes, this is true. You can burn grass that way.

What time of day was the house washed?

Beth

[PLD 14]

Yes, this is true. You can burn grass that way.

What time of day was the house washed?

Beth

Probably between 3-5pm...

[PLD 14]

I spoke with the homeowner again today, and she wants all her flowers replaced. One cute phrase was "[because of you] it has dropped all it's blooms and won't bloom again till next season". Not happening. Particularly the bush that is dead and crispy next to the tender flower that sufferred minor curling/yellowing and dropped not a single bloom.

Kinds of a catch 22. If I do not humor her, I may PO the mgmt company and lose future business. If I do, I'll be deluged with 65 calls trying to get their old dead weeds replaced for free.

[PLD 14]

I have always been told not to water your grass during the day because you can cause it to burn. I do not know if this is true or not. Could that also be a cause? It kinda made sense to me because your skin burns more when you are in the water because of the magnifing effect. Could the same be true for grass if it is too short and you water it in direct sunlight?

Just trying to throw something else out there.

I honestly think rinsing down here on scorchers days causes the wilting as much as the chems.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Does she have a lawn care service by chance? Is it possible that a lawn care company went in behind you and applied something that did this? Cujo mentioned Round Up... something like that, would also do this.

Also how often does she feed her plants? Miracle Grow could make them bloom again if they are not dead, and plants need food in order to bloom. Poor nutrition, fewer blooms. Or, are there any bugs ( you are looking for something small here) on the leaves like aphids or the like? That would also make a plant sick, and goes unseen if you don't know what to look for. ( little white specks under leaves)

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

how hot was the water you were washing with?

Rod~

[Washaway 64]

I spoke with the homeowner again today, and she wants all her flowers replaced. One cute phrase was "[because of you] it has dropped all it's blooms and won't bloom again till next season". Not happening. Particularly the bush that is dead and crispy next to the tender flower that sufferred minor curling/yellowing and dropped not a single bloom.

Kinds of a catch 22. If I do not humor her, I may PO the mgmt company and lose future business. If I do, I'll be deluged with 65 calls trying to get their old dead weeds replaced for free.

I don't understand why you even stop to take her call (or to speak to her in person). If the MC hired you then you shouldn't be discussing anything related to that job with any homeowners. If there are questions, or concerns, I always direct them to their property manager. That is what they are there for and it is the proper chain of command.......not to mention that dealing with a property manager (is most cases) is the more logical and sensible way of doing things. They tend to understand how things happen and why they happen, and may not even bother you b/c after having looked at the problem themselves, they may determine that you had nothing to do with it.

Don't forget that next year that homeowner has nothing to do with you getting the job.......it's the prop. mang. that you need to be worried about.

Have the property manager meet you onsite and point out to him all of the things that you've discussed here............no damage under drip line but there is further out from the house........dead bush next to perfectly fine little flower...etc.

And certainly NEVER NEVER NEVER discuss options of resolution with a homeowner when they fall within the lines of a commercial project.

[Cleveland Mobile 14]

I did a job once at a condo complex and had similar problems.....tell them that can happen and it will come back and that you only replace DEAD plants...not plants that lost a few leaves or flowers. Hell a good hail storm will set plants back a while....next time put that in your contract....that either hot water or tarps may shock plants.

Andy

[CCPC 26]

The drip line means nothing in this situation because the plants are far more tolorent of the chems than the grass. From the pics, it looks as though the landscape goes a bit downhill away from the house which could easily explain the fact that the grass is burned, but the plants are not. If you rinse the drip line area, the water will run down hill to the lowest spot (depending on how thourgh you rinsed) which in this case is the grass.

I learned that one a long time ago when doing roofs. I would rinse the the drip line area or where the downspout empties, but not realize that the intial, more potent chem water was traveling under the grass to the low spot 15' away.

[PLD 14]

how hot was the water you were washing with?

Rod~

about 63^ F... :)

[PLD 14]

I don't understand why you even stop to take her call (or to speak to her in person). If the MC hired you then you shouldn't be discussing anything related to that job with any homeowners. If there are questions, or concerns, I always direct them to their property manager. That is what they are there for and it is the proper chain of command.......not to mention that dealing with a property manager (is most cases) is the more logical and sensible way of doing things. They tend to understand how things happen and why they happen, and may not even bother you b/c after having looked at the problem themselves, they may determine that you had nothing to do with it.

Don't forget that next year that homeowner has nothing to do with you getting the job.......it's the prop. mang. that you need to be worried about.

Have the property manager meet you onsite and point out to him all of the things that you've discussed here............no damage under drip line but there is further out from the house........dead bush next to perfectly fine little flower...etc.

And certainly NEVER NEVER NEVER discuss options of resolution with a homeowner when they fall within the lines of a commercial project.

I'll give you three guesses who she got my number from...

[PLD 14]

Don't forget that next year that homeowner has nothing to do with you getting the job.......it's the prop. mang. that you need to be worried about.

Sort of. One angry home owner calls tiny HOA board (only 63 members total, probably 2-4 on the board) and raises hell. HOA calls mgmt company and gives them grief. MC calls me and tells me to call her and make her happy. :(

All said and done, I'm not about to get a burr under her (MC rep's) saddle over $100-150 and lose potential future biz. This is complex #2 from the same MC in one year.

[Pams Pressure & Clean 64]

Seeing that the MC is helping to steer the bus that you are being tossed under here, have you discussed a mediator for all parties?

I think a simple arrangement could be made wherein a local (not currently on staff by the MC) landscaper could be brought in, or even dig up a couple of posies and trek them off to the local Pike's with the MC rep in tow.

Get a professional appraisal of the situation and agree to be bound by the results..

The short story is that this situation is going to cost you a fight and maybe some cash one way or another.. either with homeowner or the client.. You just have to weigh which fight you want to join.