flat surface cleaner

[glock40 14]

Flat Surface Cleaners/Spinners anyone have this tool ?

And how would you rate it, is it worth the investimant?

Please let me know?

[RyanH 14]

I have a 30" Steel Eagle spinner. Before I bought my 5.5 gpm machine, I was ready to toss it from a moving vehicle (was using 4 gpm for awhile). Afterwards though, I love it. I can clean at a rate of 1000 square feet per hour on really tough concrete surfaces (LOTS of dirt/mold/mildew/grime). I can clean a lightly soiled driveway at twice that rate. If you get one, make sure you couple it with a reasonable machine; i.e., I wouldn't get a monster 30" for a 4gpm, but something like a 18 or 20". As for being a worthwhile investment, I can do the same flat surface work in abotu 15% of the time as doing it with a wand, the customers think it looks really cool, and I'm not hesitant to "low ball" a driveway if I'm already in the neighborhood doing other work. If someone comes up and wants their driveway done, I'll gladly do it for $50 - $75 (figuring a 500 - 1000 sq. foot driveway) because I know I can be in and out less than an hour.

[glock40 14]

Ryan what about decks any luck with those?

[RyanH 14]

Ryan what about decks any luck with those?

Decks? No no no no no no no!!! (Okay, I was on a Queen tangent).

Seriously though, I would never use a surface cleaner on a deck. I don't do many decks, but of the ones I have I've found that it's best to keep a consistent pattern when cleaning, typically along the grain. A surface cleaner cleans in all directions and would cause too many overlaps. On concrete overlaps aren't a big deal because clean is clean (meaning that once an area is clean, you can overlap as many times as you'd like and never be able to see a difference). With wood, each time you make a pass the soft surface is attacked. Besides, with the proper chemicals the stuff on a deck should melt off with a wand and clean up faster than using a surface cleaner and then having to go back and get the sides/corners with a wand. There's also the issue of wood needing much less pressure, but I think you can get tips for lower pressure.

[Craig 111]

If you do any type of flat surface cleaning (besides wood) a flat surface cleaner is a must have. I have a Landa that you can adjust the height on which I love. This way you can adjust the level of cleaning (the force of impact) to whatever you want.

I also have a recovery surface cleaner that's hooked up to a very power wet-vac system via 2" hose. I can clean with no overspray and pick up the water at the same time. No rinsing involved and leaves everything cleaner than a regular surface cleaner would even after rinsing.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Surface cleaners are a must have. They have many versions at many price ranges, so even if you will only use it occasionaly, it is worth the investment.

What kind of machine do you have and how often will you use the surfacer?

[usarose 18]

I also have a recovery surface cleaner that's hooked up to a very power wet-vac system via 2" hose. I can clean with no overspray and pick up the water at the same time. No rinsing involved and leaves everything cleaner than a regular surface cleaner would even after rinsing.

Craig

What is your opinion about Clean and Capture?

How long have you used it?

Can you charge a premium because you are using it?

I am investigating getting a Fury 2400 from Steel Eagle.

As far as surface cleaners go I have 3 different sizes

an 11", a 16"Deublin from Steel Eagle and a 28" from Mi-T-M

I would not do any work if I never had the 2 bigger ones.

I use a 3000 PSI /4GPM unit and they work great.

If I could give advice to any one it would be to check your nozzle / jet size and make sure that the unit is tuned for your pressure washer.

Rob

usarose

Alpharetta GA

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Clean & Capture rocks if you have a use for it. It saves times and does a great job when doing interior work, or other sensitive areas.

[Craig 111]

Clean and Capture is great. I prefer "Clean and Relocation" even better. Some may disagree. I primarily pick up the water into my 55 gallon wet vac (through the recovery surface cleaner), filter it somewhat through a special filter and then pump the water to wherever I think would be the best place. Normally there is plenty of sand here in the desert and most of the water doesn't contain oil, so I just run my pump out hose into it. If the water contains oil, I throw an oil absorbant sponge into my barrell and run the hose into the sanitary sewer.

I've been using it since last November (I think) and I use it almost on a daily basis. It is the ONLY way to go for interior jobs.. I can do a 540' garage from start to finish (including unpacking and packing) in about 45 minutes. This includes soaping with my X-Jet and leaving it on for 8-10 minutes. Also includes hooking up to water and packing everything back in to the van & trailer when I'm done. I generally charge $175-$225 for a garage- single and double. Make sure that when you're half way done to have the homeowner come out and take a look at what you're doing. They will always be impressed.

Also, for what it's worth.. Give credit where credit is due. ALAN is the one who directed me to the equipment I'm using for recovery and he also put it together for me. I love him dearly. THANKS!

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Craig,

Thanks for the kind words. I see that you are now running 2" hose, how many feet do you run? I am sure it was an improvement, but you never mentioned how much.

What's that "Special Filter", do I already know or do you have something to share? I like that "Clean & Relocation", as it works well.

[Craig 111]

I'd say it was about a 15% improvement but the air suction is still a little underpowered. I've run from 50 to 200' of the 2" hose. It stays pretty good up until 100' or so. I'm still upset with the whole Steel Eagle thing.. as you remember they sent me a lemon. I always have to adjust it and the brush skirt is warped. They did send me another one (skirt) but I haven't put it on yet, I'm sure it would help. All in all though, it works great and will purchase another one. I'd like a more powerful vac though in the long run, but that means a bigger trailer too. The one I have serves it's purpose and gets me by. The only replacement I could see for it would be the Fury.

You know about the filter I'm talking about. I thought about making a couple of canisters it could pump through to filter it down even more but what for! Works awesome as it is. That filter is a wonder!

[One Tough Pressure 580]

The only reason to filter it more would be for reuse and machine protection. No need to make canister filters as you can buy polishing filters with 1.5" lines and choose the micron ratrings for the sediment filters. They even sell carbon canisters to fit inside.

As far as the Steel Eagle, did they offer to replace the whole thing, or did you ask? It should still be under warranty and I think they would make it right. I have talked to Carl Harry the general manager many times and he seems willing to do whatever it would take to fix the problem.

I am not sure how much the Deublin spray bars are different from the Clean tech Brass, but I have not had any issues with mine except for general wear and tear.

[Craig 111]

The problem with shipping it back to them is packaging the whole thing back up somehow and paying for the shipping. I'd be out of a surface cleaner for atleast 2 weeks because they'd try to fix it first and blah blah blah. I don't have that kind of time to be out of the machine. I'm doing atleast one job with that per day and it would be easier for me to limp through it and keep it for a spare when I buy a new one.

I'd really love to see them make an adjustable height recovery surface cleaner. My Landa NEVER needs to have the nozzles changed and it's been through war many times. It makes this "soft concrete" thing no big deal.

Anyway, I guess I'm happy overall and will be getting another one pretty soon. Know anyone that has a Fury for sale?

[usarose 18]

Like Criag I have had a lot of help from Alan and I really appreciate his input and knowledge. Alan has been a listening post for me and has helped me to get started.

Thank You Alan.

But now you have given me some sleepless nights since I saw that you clean about 3,800sq ft in an hour - alone.... Please elaborate. Type of job etc. How dirty? How much gum, do you use chemicals - what chemicals? Hot/cold. Clean and Capture?

I did get that big job at the school - they cut the job down to almost 90,000 from 122,000 sq ft and I had to reduce my price to a fraction over 6 cents per sq ft.

I just bought a new 16" Deublin floor cleaning tool from Steel Eagle and I love it - I also have a 28" Mi-T-M (I use 1502 jets) that has taken a back seat in my arsenal. I am still doing the football stadium and it is slow going - I use my turbo tool for most cleaning as I have to get under the alu seating from the front and the back and then there's the gum (the Turbo is no good on the gum with cold water)- I am only cleaning about 1000 per hour - and its hot out in the South East now

What should I do to speed things up?

Lastly what is an XJet - I saw half of one at Northern Tool and could not really figure it out - how is it different from my chem jet that was supplied with my 3000 psi belt drive pressure washer? Is it just a chem jet with different orrifices that dilute the chem to different strenghts? How high can I spray chem with it?

Rob

[sparkie1 14]

Hi Craig.....Can you tell me more about the filter you use???

Thanks

[John Doherty 126]

I need to thank Alan and Craig, Alan gave me all the info I needed to set up my recovery/containment system and Craig clued me in on filtering it.

So here's my question, what differences do you find between the 1.5" and 2" hose? I'm using the 1.5" and it works really well.

As far as more power have you seen the NIKRO tri-motor? On their site they have it as a HEPA, but I'm sure they could do a wet/dry with it.

Thanks guys!

[Craig 111]

I think that the 2" hose is more properly equipped to handle the workload that the dual head supplies. With the 1.5" I can really hear the engine having to work double time. I've seen the triple head and will take another look since you brought it up- I think it should be pretty easy to turn it into a wet vac.

The only problem with the 2" is that it's quite a bit bigger than the 1.5". It definately does work better for the long runs (200') but when you get that far the vac just doesn't have enough pull for the 5 gpm machine. It get's by but would be nice if I didn't have to stop every 2 minutes to let it catch up for 10 seconds.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Like Criag I have had a lot of help from Alan and I really appreciate his input and knowledge. Alan has been a listening post for me and has helped me to get started.

Thank You Alan.

But now you have given me some sleepless nights since I saw that you clean about 3,800sq ft in an hour - alone.... Please elaborate. Type of job etc. How dirty? How much gum, do you use chemicals - what chemicals? Hot/cold. Clean and Capture?

Rob

Your Welcome Rob. When I do that much per hour, it is with my non recovery 24" Steel Eagle. I X-Jet the suitable cleaner, surface clean and then go back to rinse, edge and get the gum. I use hot water and the machine is 5 at 3500.

When recovering on a job like this, it is with vacuboom and setup is not included in the square feet cleaned per hour. It really doesn't take long to set it up though.

An X-jet is a chemical proportioner that will apply chems at much stronger rates than a traditional downstream or upstream application. The draw rate is 2:1. One part chem to 2 parts water.

I see no reason the three motor head can not be used, but having the power on hand for it may be a big issue for some. Each of those motors is 13 amps so with 3 you will be at 39 amps just for the vacuum, then you add a sump pump and you jumped to 49 amps. You throw in anything else such as another pump in a recycling system, a couple lights and you are really getting up there.

Jon ran a 10,000 watt Porter cable generator and he had trouble with starting amps of equipment and he was using the dual head Nikro.

When using the Fury tools, it restricts the full CFM of the vacuum and intensifies the LIFT aka Hg. Hg can and will crush a vacuum drum without a vacuum relief valve. I compacted my newly made 55 gallon drum and it had a relief valve. I had to do a heavy rescue to salvage my internal parts inside the drum.

Craig, did they say it would be 2 weeks or are you figuring that based on what most companies would do? Packing should only be for the head as the handle doesn't need to go.

Can you take a picture of the underside and send to me with points to where it comes out of adjustment? I may have some ideas to help.

I also have a way to adjust pressure on these units, but have yet to make it happen on mine. It would be to install a valve on the gun side with a bypass back to the vacuum port. Think of it like a dual lance surface cleaner.

I have my valve installed on the machine and have to adjust it there and then go work, vs having it on the surfacer and being able to dial in on the spot.

This also reduces the gpm but that should not be a problem in most cases, unless you are relying on pressure alone to clean.

[Craig 111]

Alan,

That's exactly what I did. I installed a ball valve like the ones on the dual lance wand. I ran a bypass through the shroud of the surface cleaner so the vac picks it up. It's the only way to go and I can't believe no one is doing that yet on stock units. It's like all they do is create things and don't think about real world usage of the product. Have you seen Hydrotek's recovery cleaner called the ANT 2C? What a joke! Why don't we put a garbage can on top of a surface cleaner... great idea.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Actually, there is a production surface cleaner that has the bypass valve and has been around for many years. It is the original Fury made by Pro Chem.

I have only seen the Hydro Tek in print, but must say that using it and loading do not seem practical. I am also not keen on dragging an extension cord thru wet areas. Have fun going under anything with it.

[Craig 111]

LMFAO!

I saw it in the flesh a few times. What a joke. I have a great idea.. let's put a 30 gallon bucket on top of a surface cleaner and push it around. Let's make it electric so we have to push 300 lbs (in case the pump out doesn't work) around the cord, the pump out hose (you forget that one! Imagine having to move your 3/4" ID water hose everywhere!) and the pressure hose. Now, let's also use hot water so you can't even touch the vacuum if you have a problem (and you WILL). Imagine carrying that thing around the back of a customers house to do his patio!

Or I could just put a harness on a shop vac with pump out and carry it on my back! It's lighter and more maneuverable!

LOL- what a rediculous creation.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Be nice they may have some loyal followers. It does go to show that extensive field testing was probably not done. They may also not have tested it with hot water as they did not feel a need.

I used my plastic drum vacuum from vacu boom with my smaller fury. The drum was ready to collapse from heat and suction. I later saw that same vacuum marketed as a hot water capable vac. I called the company and asked a few questions and I have not seen those ads since, nor have I heard anything about them using that vacuum anymore.

[Craig 111]

Sorry, Alan I call things as I see them. Nice doesn't work in this situation and whoever invented that thing needs to be educated. If he worked for my company I would have a sit down and re-evaluate who I have working for me and atleast give them some direction on what works, what doesn't and what some good solutions may be. For a business to actually think of this thing and put it into production is an insult to our intelligence. We are in business to make money and work smarter, not harder.

I own a Hydrotek unit. It has been in the shop I'd say 8 times in 3 years (not bad, I think). We've replaced the burst disc twice, the coil once (it was leaking where they welded the VIN number on), and a faulty thermostat. The other times were for small things.

I have also given them advice on that particular machine (ANT 2C) and how to make a vacuum recovery system that we could actually use. I am a follower of Hydrotek Units and I like the machines and rigs. I don't like their surface cleaners or some of their inventions.

I also stand to my original claim that "nice" doesn't do us any good. Solid advice and well thought out machinery DO.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

They may just take your advice and turn it into their money maker. Let them figure out how to make their cash while we make ours.

[Craig 111]

Alan,

Put them into production. It's perfect for the budget conscious and works well. I have found my calling... don't miss yours. If you'd like help or a partner let me know and we'll talk. Do you have any interest in this?