Gas prices

[PLD 14]

FWIW, I paid $2.71 in Atlanta this morning, $2.89 at noon, and $3.29 at days end. There are confirmed reports here of $4.50, $5.50, and $6.00/gallon at various locations. This afternoon, the governor showed that he favored votes over free-enterprise and declared a state of emergency to impose a freeze at price current levels. In the same speech, he made these statements.

<SP> Georgians should not panic. There is not going to be a gas shortage. The rise in gas prices is merely a product of public hysteria. We [Ga] get a great deal of our gas via tanker ship. The Colonial pipeline which represents 80% of our gas supply should be back online this weekend. </SP>

Will someone please explain to me how 20% = a "great deal" of our supply? Or how 80% of our supply being down for 5-7 days is not a problem?

Or why he declared a state of emergency if the problem is all in our heads?

Or why my local station was out of gas at 5pm and told me that tomorrows truck is a "maybe".

Seems to me that supply (reportedly not a problem) and demand (quelled by high prices) would rectify this situation pretty quickly. That is unless either supply is/gets constrained, or demand increases further. And I can tell you from the lines that demand can't get any higher...

His doublespeak and rhetoric made me so mad that I smashed out the window at a local retailer or two and took what I wanted. :(

[Mike Williamson 198]

The reason the stations jack up the price of what's in the ground already is so they can have the cash flow to pay the new price for what they will need. It's not right but that's why they do it.

How is it not right? As I just explained, if they don't, and prices continue to rise, they'll wind up out of business. You can't keep selling at less than it's going to cost you to replace your stock.

[Mike Williamson 198]

It's interesting to watch the collateral effect of the situation. I'm sure this will erck some of the hardcore right-wingers, but where's Uncle Sam??? Gonna blame it on the media? All of those that think the country is so wonderful, think back to the 1500's. That's when terrorism really started in America, and your ancestors weren't the ones being attacked. The problem can usually be found in the mirror. It's just another sign of the times for all of the hypocrites.

Sorry, it's just my opinion, and I needed a good rant.....lol.

I'm done!

I can't remember much from the 1500s, it's been a long time. The memories are hazy. :rolleyes:

My ancestors didn't get here until the late 1800s. I agree, though, what was done to those who were here before us wasn't right, but it was done. I don't see what that's got anything to do with what's happening today, other than to give us insight into the terrible things mankind is capable of when there's no one there to stop us.

Where's uncle Sam? In what regard? Disaster relief? Gas prices? Price gouging?

Just remember, governenment doesn't do anything well...times like this are a testimony to that fact.

[Jon 533]

Just remember, governenment doesn't do anything well...times like this are a testimony to that fact.

The above statement if taken as truth means one thing, we the people who are the government by the simple fact we vote those people who each of us feels would do the best job in office. True test of ones ability to perform comes at times like this.

This sort of emergency should have been acted on instantly regardless of peoples skin color, period. Passing the buck and blaming other departments only worstens the whole effort to rescue those in need.

I know this can bring on a lot of pro and con but face it Donkey or Elephant the reaction should have been ASAP, not a couple days later.

Then there is the fact we have refused help from many countries, so what if they are considered our enemy, if Castro offers medicine and doctors let them in, if a country like China says why should they help us ever cut them off forever from everything.

It bugs me no end we are the first to offer anything and everything to any country in times like this yet refuse help back. We are NOT the greastest anymore, we are half or more owned by Germany, China, Japan and many other countries.

I am a proud person yet if I lost it all I would gladly take a day old hot dog and eat it if it meant survival.

[PressurePros 248]

The UN has offered financial help as well as quite a few foreigns. I don't know about pulling the race card. Unfortunately Katrina chose a path through a very economically depressed part of the country. Did this make any difference in rescue response time? I doubt it. I think plain old bureaucracy was the culprit there. Too many government departments, too many chiefs without a clue and the result is people half starve to death..sad. FEMA for all it's planning and forecasting f'd up. The tsunami rescue efforts and temporary relocation went much smoother from all I can tell.

Hypothetically speaking and for all of those that say the media, and all levels of government should have done more (as they sit and type on their computers)..let me ask you this:

There are a half million minority, unskilled, below poverty income people that need a home. Would you be overjoyed if they were relocated to your neighborhood? It will be interesting to watch as the aftermath sympathy fades and reality sets in.

[squirtgun 122]

Jon,

I read that no offers of aid are being declined.They are asking for some of the nations that have offered help to wait until later in the recovery.

Sri Lanka has pledged $500 million in aid,other countries are flying in plane loads of huge pumps and water purification unit to get people clean water supplies.Israel has pledged their mobile hospitals,doctors and expert in building temporay shelters.

For the first time in history the world is offering aid for the US.We have bailed so many out in the past,I guess the figure they are way over due to extend the helping hand.

There are a great many unskilled,below poverty people in my community now(just a couple of blocks away)so I wouldn't really notice anything different.

[acidburn 14]

How is it not right? As I just explained, if they don't, and prices continue to rise, they'll wind up out of business. You can't keep selling at less than it's going to cost you to replace your stock.

That's where you are wrong. THe only way this affects the station adversely is if they were to not sell the next load of gas. The gas in the tank should not be overpriced because of the cost of the NEXT load. When the NEXT load arrives should be when prices rise.

And i didn't SAY anything about GIVING a room to the refugees. But cost should not increase due to this disaster. That is BLATENTLY taking advantage of people....and is EXACTLY why we have laws against price-gouging. Hell, they're already going to make more money than they would have even if they leave the prices the same.

I am all for free enterprise....but with prices within reason. If one's costs go up, then by all means raise prices. But not double or triple overnight, unless costs rise like that.

You misunderstand my point i believe. I am not talking about charity here....i am talking about not ripping off the American public. And you are right, people can choose to not buy from them, and I don't. But I also think they should hide their heads in shame.

There is nothing wrong with making a profit....that is what business is all about. But there is a point where it IS price-gouging...and it is legally.....and in my book, morally WRONG. These types of people are shamelessly exploiting a natural disaster.

But, maybe karma will kick in.....and they will reap what they sow.

[PLD 14]

I am all for free enterprise....but with prices within reason. If one's costs go up, then by all means raise prices. But not double or triple overnight, unless costs rise like that.

Ok, I'l run with you on this one: Who determines "prices within reason"? Who determines what the operational costs are?

[squirtgun 122]

I think in the state of GA. our govenor decided what was fair.

[JeffW 14]

The gas station owner I know must pay for his gas before they pump any into his holding tanks.($15,000-$20,000) at a time.If he does'nt raise his prices he will not be able to by enough gas the next to meet his demands.If this trend continues he will soon not be able to buy any amount of gas.I can see why they must pre-pay; Lets say a station is given $20,000 worth of gas on credit and the station owner takes the gas and sells it all and then closes shop with never paying the merchant for their gas.

[Mike Williamson 198]

That's where you are wrong. THe only way this affects the station adversely is if they were to not sell the next load of gas. The gas in the tank should not be overpriced because of the cost of the NEXT load. When the NEXT load arrives should be when prices rise.

So what you're saying is that it's ok for the station owner in my example to not only NOT make a profit this week on his gas, but also to have to kick in some money out of his pocket to afford the next tanker of gas? Sorry, that's just not how it works.

I am all for free enterprise....but with prices within reason. If one's costs go up, then by all means raise prices. But not double or triple overnight, unless costs rise like that.

You're all for free enterprise, within reason, as long as YOU agree with what's reasonable. To the station owner, raising prices because his prices are going up is very reasonable...it allows him to feed his family this week.

You misunderstand my point i believe. I am not talking about charity here....i am talking about not ripping off the American public. And you are right, people can choose to not buy from them, and I don't. But I also think they should hide their heads in shame.

I agree totally. If someone is taking advantage of a crisis where people are in desperate need just so they can pocket some extra cash, I think that's wrong. I certainly don't concone it, and I'd never do it. On the other hand, I still understand that the business owner has, or should have, the right to charge whatever the hell they want for THEIR product. I just don't think it is the government's job to go around forcing people to do the right thing.

There is nothing wrong with making a profit....that is what business is all about. But there is a point where it IS price-gouging...and it is legally.....and in my book, morally WRONG. These types of people are shamelessly exploiting a natural disaster.

This is my point. It is legally wrong because people like you and I feel it is morally wrong. I don't think it is the government's job to enforce morality.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I think in the state of GA. our govenor decided what was fair.

Why is it that we're always all for government interferance in business and our lives when it works to our favor, but when we perceive some injustice done at government's hands, we yell and kick and scream???

Let's hope the government doesn't come in and decide what fair is for your business.

Personally, I don't want the government setting my prices, so unless I want to be a hyprocrite, I don't want the government setting the prices of others either.

[squirtgun 122]

Since they have lifted the EPA restrictions and gas taxes for the next month.Gas should cost the stations less $$$ from their suppliers which should mean less cost at the pump for the consumer.

This is a temporay measure to insure that the citizens of the state have a supply of gas to buy.If they are buying the gas available they are also buying beer,cokes,cigarettes.lotto tickets etc.So as an end result everyone gets a benefit from the temporary measure,store owners and consumer alike.

There are some stations out of at least one grade of gas/or are only ordering the lower grades,but they do have gas and people are still buying.We haven't seen any stations that have mile long lines or completely out of gas for more than a few hours.

[Jon 533]

There are a half million minority, unskilled, below poverty income people that need a home. Would you be overjoyed if they were relocated to your neighborhood? It will be interesting to watch as the aftermath sympathy fades and reality sets in.

Do I sense a bit of prejudice here? If I owned a rental property and could afford to offer one for free or almost free I would do so in cases like this, no questions asked and worry about who will help pay the gas, electric and stuff later.

A situation like this should cause strangers to open their doors and offer a free bath, meal, some clothes that are not worn anymore, even pitch a tent in the yard and offer sleeping bags so people can rest and not worry about things for a few days.

Yes I would do that if I lived closer but being in CA it makes little sense.

I remember well what my parents did every Christmas, they opened our home to total strangers from other countries to enjoy an American Christmas meal and evening with us. Sometimes it was a couple foriegn college students, other times a whole family and I have no clue how they found them or who they called.

Originally Posted by acidburn

I am all for free enterprise....but with prices within reason. If one's costs go up, then by all means raise prices. But not double or triple overnight, unless costs rise like that

You're all for free enterprise, within reason, as long as YOU agree with what's reasonable. To the station owner, raising prices because his prices are going up is very reasonable...it allows him to feed his family this week.

Here is a good example, the station owner is forced by the petro industry to raise his price because THE GREEDY perto company is taking advantage of tragedy.

SHAME on them, they should be offering FREE gas to those in need not ripping them off. They should offer free gas to all the people and businesses that are driving to Miss. and Louis. to help those in need.

Will it happen, never.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Here is a good example, the station owner is forced by the petro industry to raise his price because THE GREEDY perto company is taking advantage of tragedy.

SHAME on them, they should be offering FREE gas to those in need not ripping them off. They should offer free gas to all the people and businesses that are driving to Miss. and Louis. to help those in need.

Will it happen, never.

I'd agree that it would be a great thing for them to do, very nice and generous, but I certainly can't say that they SHOULD give away their products for free. As if they're immoral or unethical for simply wanting to make a profit.

[PLD 14]

I think in the state of GA. our govenor decided what was fair.

My point exactly. You cannot believe "I am all for free enterprise" and "the government should set prices" at the same time. By definition those two positions are diametrically opposed...

Oh, and to keep the debate on point the question was "who do YOU think SHOULD set prices" not who is setting prices at this time.

[PLD 14]

If I owned a rental property and could afford to offer one for free or almost free I would do so in cases like this, no questions asked and worry about who will help pay the gas, electric and stuff later.

Jon,

I own rental property and I can tell you that you would do this exactly ONCE. Especially in Ca. where the landlord-tenant laws are much more onerous toward landlords than they are here.

First, once they move in you must EVICT them if they choose not to leave voluntarily. That can take 4-6 months in a worst case scenario and 45-60 days in a best case scenarion.

Second, once you provide utils you must do so until they are evicted or until they sign a lease that indicates that they are not provided any longer. So, if they run the AC and lights 24x7 to the tune of $1200/mo you can not stop them from doing so.

Third, without a lease you cannot regulate who may live there. So,they can move in 50 of their buddies, violate all manner of local ordinances (for which YOU will be fined) and tell you to pound sand. Oh, and remember the eviction process? You must serve each adult person to be evicted. If you just serve the initial two, the others may stay until evicted. Even those who moved in AFTER the eviction notice. Sure, you can go get an injuction to halt the inflow, but that is yet another legal process.

Finally, with no agreement for damages/repairs/move out condition you will have a very hard time collecting for anything. They will argue that it was "wear and tear" and that "wear and tear" was included in the deal.

Bottom line, I hate to be the cynic but NEVER allow squatters onto your property without a written arrangement. Even if it is just $0.01/month, spell out the terms and accept payment in case PRIOR to letting them cross the threshold.