how can u test a finish to find out what it is?

[a68cudas 14]

is there any way to test a finish to find out if it is an oil based, latex or acrylic latex finish?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

1. Take a couple of small spray bottles - the "windex" trigger sprayer type ( Zep makes them you can get them at HD) and put your caustic in one and your acid in the other.
   
2. Spray on the caustic, let dwell.
   
3. Scratch the surface with a stirring stick or something. You are testng to see if the stripper will break through.
   
4. Rinse with garden hose when done.
   
5. Apply acid.
   
6. Rinse again.

Test spot done. No PW'er needed for a test spot. Also...test on a difficult area, such as rails.

Beth :cup:

[RPetry 564]

Cudas,

To add what Beth has posted, in my truck is a set of spray bottles with various concentrations of sodium hydroxide strippers. Included in this stripper test kit is Biowash's Stripex-L, a stripper formulated for latex coatings, and other specialty strippers, including Back to Nature's BFS II, a stripper that will remove nearly anything, including multiple layers of foul acrylics.

If a normal mix of NaOH stripper starts to emulsify or removes the finish within 15 minutes, it is with high confidence an oil based stain.

Latex is different. If the finish is peeling in places, remove a piece and try to stretch and feel its properties. If it is a bit like rubber, it is probably a straight latex. Stripex-L should start working within maybe 20 minutes.

Foul acrylics will also peel off exterior wood. This is one of this finish's most endearing properties. Take a piece and examine. If it is hard and brittle, not rubbery, and has a "shine" to it, the stain may be a foul acrylic. Put on a thick dab of BFS II and check back in 10 hrs.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Thanks Rick! :)

Beth :cup:

[RPetry 564]

Good morning Beth,

Hope it helps Cudas. I am sure there was nothing in my post that you and Rod did not already know.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Everyone has a different way of explaining things and if it helps to fill in the blanks to get the point across then we are accomplishing something. Thanks Rick.

Rod!~

[Neil_Asheville 114]

Rick and others...

Do you also rinse with garden hose, as Beth does, when doing test patches? Beth, do you use your own GH nozzle? 'Firehose' type garden nozzle?

Rick If I remember, you work out of your truck so you do have your setup on estimates and test spots. I'd be curious of those that work out of a trailer if the rig goes with for estimates/test spots or if you use customers GH.

Thanks...

I'm getting there...;)

/neil

[RPetry 564]

Neil,

On test stripping spots when doing an estimate, if water is readily available and convenient, I'll rinse off by pouring water from a cup or container. Otherwise, I just spray a little citric acid on the stripper to neutralize. If you need pressure to judge whether a test stripper is working or not, either the test mix is too weak or you are using the wrong type of stripper for the finish.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Just take the customer's garden hose and if there is no nozzle on it, use your handy dandy Thumb-Jet. :)

Beth

[mikew 14]

Cudas,

To add what Beth has posted, in my truck is a set of spray bottles with various concentrations of sodium hydroxide strippers. Included in this stripper test kit is Biowash's Stripex-L, a stripper formulated for latex coatings, and other specialty strippers, including Back to Nature's BFS II, a stripper that will remove nearly anything, including multiple layers of foul acrylics.

If a normal mix of NaOH stripper starts to emulsify or removes the finish within 15 minutes, it is with high confidence an oil based stain.

Latex is different. If the finish is peeling in places, remove a piece and try to stretch and feel its properties. If it is a bit like rubber, it is probably a straight latex. Stripex-L should start working within maybe 20 minutes.

Foul acrylics will also peel off exterior wood. This is one of this finish's most endearing properties. Take a piece and examine. If it is hard and brittle, not rubbery, and has a "shine" to it, the stain may be a foul acrylic. Put on a thick dab of BFS II and check back in 10 hrs.

Rick,

Where can you buy the Back to Nature and Biowash strippers?

Thanks,

Mike

[RPetry 564]

Mike,

Back to Nature has a web site, so does Biowash which is actually Napier Environmental Technologies out of B.C., Canada. Do a google search.

I cannot get Removall locally. BTN BFS II is available to me at an industrial supply warehouse in the area and the manufacturer is no more than 25 miles from my home, but that does not help you in Ga.

[Greg R 82]

Hi Mike ( and Beth and Rick!)

When I'm bidding I carry a can of Easy Off oven cleaner with me - if you have a finish where your not sure if it is oil or latex just spray a spot. The easy off is NaOh based (sodium hydroxide) and will break down any oil based finish. For the most part acrylics and latex kind of stand out and when familiar you can pick them out without even testing. However we have had a few darker brown stains that have surprised us. :)

Take Care

Greg

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hi Greg,

Good seeing you here again!

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Greg R. of the old DeckGuide board? Greg, check out your old site, it has been revamped. I learned a lot about wood there years ago and want you to know it is appreciated.

[Greg R 82]

Thats me :) I couldn't get logged in under my old user name so I had to start as a newbie :)

Been to deckguide a good number of times too. How's business been Rick? Great I hope! We're back doing wood again too - couldn't stay away appearently.

Take Care

Greg

[RPetry 564]

Greg,

Welcome back! Starting out as a newbie, that's a laugh. Something about wood is hard to walk away from, don't know what it is. Business is good but it is Spring. Ask me during the dog days of August! A pleasant surprise to hear from you again, keep those stain soaked tarps out of that hot van! There was a valuable lesson that helped a lot of us! See 'ya.

[a68cudas 14]

thanks for the info. what about denatured alcohol on a rag and rub ? have heard that if latex comes off on rag and if not then oil based? is this true?

[RPetry 564]

Cudas,

If you can get latex off with denatured alchol, you may be a wizard. Good for removing sawdust off wood or burning in camp stoves but I doubt it will touch latex. Let us know. Good luck.

[a68cudas 14]

i didnt say i could i was told that if i have no clue what the solid is and if i use a rag and denatured alcohol on it that in one scenario if the color comes off on rag its one thing and if it doesnt its something else?

[JEAPAINT 14]

Denatured Alcohol will soften dried latex paint. I use it to clean paint brushes when there is some dry paint on them. I also cleaned a front door before painting it and the latex paint that was on it started getting soft and rubbing off.

HTH,

Doug

[RPetry 564]

Doug,

Thanks. Not being a painter have little exposure to latex. Thankfully, not much on customers exterior wood. Can you actually strip a single app. of latex with denatured alcohol?

Cudas, listent to Doug. He knows a lot more about this than I do.

[JEAPAINT 14]

Can you actually strip a single app. of latex with denatured alcohol?

I guess it could be possible. I've never done it. The fumes from the alcohol would be outrageous though. I guess thats what respirators are for. :D

Doug

[Greg R 82]

If the finish wont come off with the Easy Off bid it as a major strip :)

At this point in the game we are staying as far away from latex jobs as possible. I've done alot of them in my days and I myself along with the guys working for us have always dreaded these jobs. There's a lot of stripping and usually sanding to follow. Typically we would have to charge 3 or 4 times the price on a latex strip to justify the hourly profit from a oil based strip. Around here though when they lay it on they lay it on HEAVY... we have alot of painters around here pretending to be deck guys :)

[Greg R 82]

" keep those stain soaked tarps out of that hot van! There was a valuable lesson that helped a lot of us!"

Hey Rick -

Yes... I like to lead by example :) Funny thing is I had a second one burn down the year before last.

A squirrel built a nest in behind the passenger headlight and the manifold caught the nest on fire... the insurance company loves me.

[RPetry 564]

Greg,

... the insurance company loves me.

Bet they do with the premiums you are paying! Seriously, someday when you have the chance, you may want to write up a quick summary of your experience and post it in Chemicals & Safety forum.

There are quite a few new contractors on this site that may not be aware of the dangers inherent in oil based stains. If I recall correctly, linseed oil is particularly volitile.

[Greg R 82]

Who needs to write a story... I would bet the photos of that lesson are still over on deckguide! No more linseed based finishes for us. Get a careless guy or two and next thing ya know your filing a claim for $20k. We're using 90% Ready Seal now and I've been reassured it wont combust :)