Exotic woods

[RPetry 564]

Thought I knew something working on exotic wood decks. This list is from the home page of Thompson Mahogany Co., a 160 yr. old firm located in Phila., Pa.

We are a major direct importer of Genuine Mahogany, African Mahogany, Sapele Mahogany, Santos Mahogany, Aniegre, Bubinga, Bloodwood, Brazilian Cherry, Spanish Cedar, Cumaru, Ipé, Jatoba, Lacewood, Makore, Obeche, Padauk, Peruvian Walnut, Purpleheart, Rosewood, Teak, Wenge, Zebrawood, Ipé Decking, Cambara Decking and Hardwood Flooring..

Web page: http://www.thomahog.com/

I have never even heard of most of these species.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We only see a few of them on decks and furniture but have read about them in the USDA Forestry labs wood handbook.

Interesting note though...Genuine Mahogany comes from africa to begin with and most now purchased in the US is grown in the US and called American Mahogany. I wonder what they think distiguishes theirs from others to be called Genuine?

Will check into it later...gotta dispatch the crews.

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

American mahogany, at least as defined by the Aussies.

http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/hardwoodsqld/13321.html

[mas3372 14]

There is genuine african and genuine american mahogany. The list of exotics goes on and on. Woodworking is my other passion and I use exotics quite a bit. Purple heart would be a beautiful and affordable decking material, it is more abudant in brazil than maple is in north america.

If you want to see what some of the woods look like, I linked a few of the suppliers I use that offer pics.

http://www.hearnehardwoods.com

http://www.righteouswoods.com

Some exotics are cheaper than domestic and some are so expensive. ie, ebony is about $50 for a board foot (square foot that is 1 inch thick)

Exotic does not mean tropical either as many believe, it just means it is not native.

Many of the tropical exotics are very hard, full of resin and vibrant in colors. These woods need lots of UV protection to keep their vibrants. However, once sanded their natural color returns.

I could talk all day about wood, a truley wonderful natural resource that most take for granted.

There are also some more pics of exotic woods on my website if you are interested in seeing them.

www.customwoodworkingusa.com

[mas3372 14]

One more tid bit to bore you some more.

With the constant drain on the rain forest in South america and lack of control in wood harvesting in asia and africa - many woods are becoming so rare and close to being gone. Leading to high demand and higher prices such as like teak, rose wood, etc.

Scientist developed a truley amazing wood called lyptus. A hybrid of two eucalyptis trees, it is grown on plantations in Brazil. This is wood is hard like hard maple, the color of cherry and the grain of mahogany. A rather attractive wood when finished properly. These lyptus trees grow straight up in very straight bores and has no branches. The lyptus tree achieves full growth at 15 years as opposed to 30-40 years that many other trees require. The best part is that when the tree is cut down, the stump just grows another tree.

A few more discoveries such as these can ultimately save what we cherish as forest.

do a search on lyptus if you have a chance, very interesting.

[RPetry 564]

Mas,

I could talk all day about wood, a truley wonderful natural resource that most take for granted.

Great! There are so many different "hardwoods" and "exotics" that some of us are seeing, and are having a difficult time making a correct identification. Stick around, your expertise in wood would be appreciated and enlightening.

Lyptus sounds fascinating, I will look into this new species. Thanks for all the good info.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I love threads like these!

Beth

[mas3372 14]

feel free to ask away.

Wood is facinating to me.

one more tidbit. The purple heart medal first given by George washington was a heart carved out of purple heart wood. Not sure of how he obtained the wood, I believe it was from a ship built in south america but I am really unsure on that. Purple heart is still one of the most commonly used woods for ship building and exterior construction given it's outdoor resistive properties.

[plainpainter 217]

I read a story in my newspaper about a tree called the American Chestnut tree. I had never heard about it before - apparently there were over 8 billion specimens all up and down the eastern seaboard - until a blight killed them back. Supposedly the area of forest they covered back around 1900 was somewhere in the range of 30%-40% of the eastern seaboard into the appalachians - there nuts were so sought after, that it was a cottage industry in the appalachians to harvest them and send freight cars full of them each christmas around the country to places like New York, Chicago, Boston, L.A. And they were what all street poles were made of, and most of them today are still in use. There was no need for any preservatives like creosote, the wood was hard like stone, and naturally UV - resistant. The tree is so sorely missed - I knew nothing about this - that the Utilities in the last 40 - 50 years have constantly tried to fund programs to make a resistant species come back - but the chinese chestnut lacks the super straight tall trunks.

I read this, and went to go see the last known American Chestnut tree in my town. And it had a sign on it, describing the tree - the name in latin - and it was put there by the utilities. Truly an extremely missed tree and important part of our ecology and economy that is all but gone. And not to mention - a potentially superior hardwood for decking. We still have poles well over a hundred years old that are still in use! And no chemical was ever applied or injected into the wood.

There is a light at the end of this tunnel. Apparently through our modern understanding of genetics - we are now able to crossbreed the chinese chestnut with our own chestnut - and only extract the needed resistance of the chinese chestnut has, and yet maintain all the other original characteristics that fool even the experts. Apparently once they mate the two trees - the chinese characteristics are more prominent, i.e. loss of nice straight trunk. So once they have a generation of 50%/50% hybrids - they expose them to the blight. And keep the remainders that are still alive - which is quite low. Then they take this new hybrid species and back breed it with another doner of the original American chestnut. So this new species is now 75% american 25% chestnut, and again they expose it to the blight - and keep the remainders. They do this over and over again - until they have a tree that is 15/16ths American, and only 1/16 chinese with the needed gene that makes them resistant to the blight. They have these trees growing right now on Smolak Farms in North Andover Massachusetts. And I can't wait to grow this tree - and look forward to reinvigorating our forests with a native species that use to provide so much in terms of economy for country and natural food for our ecology.

-Dan

[RPetry 564]

Mas,

Keep 'em coming! The purple heart story is one of those pieces of information that is fascinating.

Since we are both sitting around, waiting for the thunderstorms to abate, I have two pictures and a question.

I realize it is difficult to ID wood from a photo, especially if it does not have unique visual characteristics, so I'm not asking for anything definitive.

First pic, wood stripped and brightened with citric, still a tad wet. Second pic, stained with a color mix of Ready Seal stain. Wood had not been rubbed down yet when taken.

Builder says its "mahogany", installers don't have a clue. i've been calling it "Philippine mahogany". It does not have the color qualities of what I consider higher quality mahogany.

Want to make an educated guess?

[StainlessDeal 16]

Is Philipine Mahogany what we used to call "Lauan" when I worked in the lumberyards?

If I remember right, most of the holow-core interior doors were made of it.

It sure looks like the same stuff.

[RPetry 564]

Hey Scott,

I've also heard of luan or something like that, and also a wood called balau, again, something like that. One other clue I forgot to mention is that this wood is dense. Probably got the equivalent of 450 sq. ft. per gal. coverage with Ready Seal, which penetrates into stainless steel!

Dan,

Real good article with an upbeat ending on the American Chestnut. I copied it and put it in one of my hard drive directories that is for wood information.

I'm going to call some nurseries today and see if these trees are available locally. It would be nice to have a tree in the yard with a story, a history, a tragedy, and a rebirth.

[FLORIN 21]

Hello everybody,

Here is a link to a website that goes into great detail on exotic woods. Just scroll down towards the bottom and you will see what I mean. It has pictures and descriptions on almost all. The website states it has over 15,000 pictures posted. If you are looking for an exotic wood you shoul find it here. http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/

[RPetry 564]

Man, where have all you guys been? There has been more interesting stuff posted and great links to exotic wood sites than I can remember on any thread on the TGS at anytime in the past.

[mas3372 14]

Luan I believe is its own creation. It just has the same color of mahogany.

Rick, The wood you have is a mahogany. There are several species of which, mostly named from where they are found. It looks like a very popular mahogany found in my area that is used for exterior decking, porches, etc. Around here it is known as Baku` mahogany which I believe is native to south america. Most wood referred to as Genuine Mahogany are the pure woods such as African and south american in which the wood is very straight grained and tight with little imperfections and used for furniture.

Most sub species such as Baku' and the other 100 names are less than furniture grade, will have swirl grain, small insect holes, whiteish or other off color streaking. Many boards from the same bundle will be different shades.

But you defintley have a mahogany there.

[mas3372 14]

great article dan, it is amazing what some science can endure.

[Thad 135]

I'm not a woodie but I am a guitar player.

Looking at it from a musician's perspective, things have gotten really confusing. Gone are the days when mahogany was mahogany.

Every cheap importer (and some of the big US name brands) has a different name for cheap plentiful wood that you never heard of. Nato and agathis are somehow now "Eastern Mahogany" and "Commercial Grade Mahogany".

[RPetry 564]

Mas,

Thats it! Baku' mahogany, not Balau or some such name. Thanks.

[mas3372 14]

No problem. Glad I could help. Baku` is very plenitful in my area and very poplular. When taken care of it will last for ever.

Thanks for calling me Mas, I have been meaning to put my name with my info and always forget, so I will do that right now.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Balau is a beautiful wood. We have a balau table on our deck.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I think it's American Mahogany. According to the USDA Forestry Labs wood handbook, it is generally straighter grained than African Mahogany which the grain is frequently interlocked.

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

While looking up info on exotic woods yesterday, came across this site.

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/wood_myth.html

The title of the article is "Wood Myths: Facts and Fictions About Wood" from the University of Mass.. Some varied info for those of us that work on wood.

In one section, the following...."The real problem is that many lumber yards sell you Meranti (Shorea spp.) as mahogany. Philippine mahogany is meranti. It is not mahogany.

Merchants separate 125 species of Shorea into 4 groups of meranti."

On other sites, saw a lot of references to the Shorea species and the various names associated with it. This species is not mahogany, but there is prevalent marketing from the importers to sell it as such. Buyer beware. It is becoming more difficult to correctly ID all these so called "mahoganies" and exotic hardwoods.

Some genius is going to wake up one day and start selling some wood as "African Ipe'" and make a quick fortune.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Here is an excerpt for the USDA Forestry Labs Wood Handbook:

[Meranti is a common name applied commercially to four groups of species of Shorea from southeast Asia, most commonly Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines. There are thousands of common names for the various species of Shorea, but the names Philippine mahogany and lauan are often substituted for Meranti. The four groups of Meranti are separated on the basis of heartwood color and weight (Table 1-3) About 70 species of Shorea belong to the light and dark red Meranti groups, 22 species to the white Meranti group, and 33 species to the yellow Meranti group.]

Basically this is concurring with Rick's post above and adds to the confusion of what the wood is in the initial pics we are trying to guess at.

Overall, whichever it is, it is still among the hardwoods and would be treated in the same manner regarding maintenance and protection.

Nice link Rick.

It is deceiving that suppliers would try to sell you something as another especially if your intended use is not suitable for it.

Pau lope brand Ipe' http://www.paulopedecking.com is an example of a separating of the groups according to grade and color for a marketing advantage. It's still Ipe' and Brazilian Redwood though and not some similar wood like Cambara which can be easily distinguished by its splintery texture and often darker color (usually dark brown and reddish brown)

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

Rod,

Pau lope brand Ipe' http://www.paulopedecking.com

Went to the site and had a quick lookover. What is it with these wood importers? Looks like, sounds like, almost tastes like ipe'. But could not find any mention that it is actually ipe'.

More addition to the confusion. Whats the matter with " Pau lope ipe' ". Its like they are trying to establish a new species for pure market postition.

[mas3372 14]

The problem with wood is that there are so many sub species of trees. This allows anybody to name any wood anything they want. The only real way to make sure you have a mahogany or an Ipe or soforthe is to know the woods latin or botanical name. Each main species will have identical first names for the wood.

[RPetry 564]

Mike,

No doubt. The problem seems to stem from the importer/growers. I would guess that many lumber yards do not have a clue to species, only a trade name. When the trade name has "mahogany" in it and the wood is not of that family, I think it is deceptive.

I put an aside comment on " African Ipe' " earlier today. If you do a google search, there are some people that state they have "African Ipe'". As far as I know, ipe' is only indigenous to South and Central America. The misinformation and buyer ripoffs are occuring and will only get worse.

Even if I only work on the wood, it would be beneficial to know what I'm working on. The builder, installer, and ultimate customer may not, and in my limited experience, do not have a clue.