Am I that overpriced?

[Kory 14]

I put a bid in today on a 7720sq ft house & garage, 2 story, plants everywhere. The lady called me asking for a quote for a roof cleaning in one of the more expensive neighborhoods in the area. She said she did not think it was that bad but someone told her to get it done. I get there and it is a large 2 story with a decent pitch and Flat tiles. I could not get an accurate measurement do to all the plants and crap in the way. She was not home at the time so I called here this afternoon and tell her it is going to be around 1300 and I will also clean the rust stains around the house and PW the front entrance of the house the phone got silent quick .... then she said we are getting a couple of quotes and we will call back. This is easily a million dollar+ home. It seems like I am not able to seal the deal on some of my quotes because of being to high in price. I tell them I am licensed & insured and have some excellent references.

[Kory 14]

In Hillsborough we have a lot of compitition every time I turn around I see a rig or a car with an "A" frame in the trunk. Scott & them @ ameritech must be doing good. I guess my thing is I could be a low baller I have a small auto loan I own my rig and I don't have rent or a mortgage (TMI). But Im not going to be cut throat and low ball for a number of reasons. The biggest is I take pride in what I do some times a 2 hour job will take me 4-5 hours because I am that miticulous. So in my opinion you are paying me for quality however now a days money talks and service, quality and bustin my a$$ out in the heat don't matter to customers. I don't want to keep wasting my time giving quotes and loosing money. My purpose with this thread was to see how off I was. My conclusion is that I am good on price for a high quality job for my area. Thank you Thomas and John for your openness as you are some of my compitition and I thank the rest of you for your opinions.

[Kory 14]

I have done a couple of roofs but have not noticed a big difference in chem usage. If anything I think I would use more chem on shingles.

[Thomas 14]

Thats a great way to think about it Kory. And from the sound of it...I can tell what kind of person you are.....you are not competing with the folks with washers in the trunk. Your client list is most likely full of good clients that keep you busy and away from those seeking 100 dollar "trunk jobs". I get like that also sometimes and think I am pricing myself out of the market.

I feel the same way as you do..you are paying for my high quality job, if you dont pay for it I will fill my day up with someone that will..:)

[CCPC 26]

So Lance, If you could earna bigger profit would you? OF course you would , you would be foolish to cap your profitability by not educating yourself about what prices the market COULD bear.

Thats like a gas station owner selling his gas at .99 when the market can bear 2.00. Shooting yourself in the foot IMO. And capping the market!

I can't concern myself on what MY market COULD bear because unfortunately I don't have the capital to try and single handedly change the local market value for roof cleaning over the course of 15 years, what I can do is use my sales skills and intelligence to make the most out of what is available, which I believe I do quite well. Keep in mind that homes, and the general cost of living in Jax. is still quite a bit cheaper than in most other major cities in FL, so the price differences are somewhat relative to other more expensive markets such as Tampa where you are.

As for the gas station analogy, I do charge what the market will bear as long as I'm staying in my 60-80% job closing rate. If I fall below that I'm making less money even if my per job average is higher. If I go above that, I'm not charging enough and I'm losing money.

[Thomas 14]

Understood, and while that is a successfull approach...what happens to the market if the "mean" is lowered due to an increase in new inexperienced entities? You take a paycut?

How is the market going to grow? I am not suggesting that you start overpricing, or try to single handedly change the market..of course you will slow to a crawl and self destruct. What I am saying is find what the top of the market is and compete with that number. Why rape the market of what it could bear becasue you can turn a decent profit. Thats like walmart sellign all the toys below cost at christmas because they know you will be in there buying toilet paper etc anyway...not good!

I run an ad in a local paper that has 7 or 8 pw'ing co's. 6 of em are cut throat 100 dollar for any job you call them on. Example..my wife called 4 of them, all four on the same specs for a roofwash was 100. My price before I even thought of placing an ad inthis publication was 250 for that spec roof. Should I take a paycut? Do I want 100 dollar a job seeking clientel?

I haven't and I am getting 250 for those roofs still. (1300 shingle) avg home in area mid scale neighborhoods. And I would bet those folks have raised their prices instead of running around and relying totally on a closing rate.

I get maybe half of my estimates. I rely on my sales presentation and my work.

I am a newer co and I may be wrong and I appreciate this discussion...

[CCPC 26]

I don't think your doing it wrong, but nor do I think I am. You must understand that for my area, my prices aren't even close to cut throat, or lowballer, beleve me, we've got plenty of our share of $99.00 roof cleaning specials. I have a $200 minimum for any roof no matter what the size.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Not trying to cause and argument with you ccpc. But the only thing you would be killing in that scenerio is the roof cleaning market qnd your pocket.

The last 800 roof I did was 3200 square. It was very steep (we did walk some of it) it was shingle.

just my opinion...

How many hours do you figure that roof will take? Two story 7000 square foot house means the equivalent roof size of a 3500sf house (if it is all two story). How long can that take? Even if you had $100.00 in chlorine, you'd still have $700.00 left... Even if it took you 5 hours, you're still making damned near $150.00/hour.

If I'm clearing close to $150.00/hour after the cost of the chlorine, I'm certainly not killing my pocket...and if I can make things work at $150.00/hour, so can anyone else. Which means if that kills the roof market, then the roof market needed some adjusting.

[Washaway 64]

You have to understand that we clean roofs almost once a year but definately once every two years. It's the climate down here.

Having said that if I was onsite, for this job, for 6 hours it would be attributed to a mechanical failure of some sorts.

That's including cutting the butt edges, washdown (roof run off) and cleanup around patio and entrance ways.

That comes in at a lot more than $100/hr.

I estimate 4 - 5 hours on that job. Guaranteed

ps (Kory, thx for the pictures)

300 to 400 overpriced???

back that number out and throw it into an 1500 square. an average house ..that means if it is 300 or 400 over you are doing 1500 square for like 100 dollars. his price is good....as he said it has a 10% discount. I would have been just over 1600.

[Kory 14]

Mike 7k is all roof not the actual home Sq.

[Thomas 14]

I never rely, think about or forcast using on how much per hour. That would imply the better I get and my helpers, the less we make. Yesterday I did a very high slick galvanized steel roof in an hour and half for 599. Some just you kill it... some they kill you.

I am speaking in general..

That is like you are settling with 150 p/hour...when you could have made 200.

I consider doing a job for 300 less than what it would have gone for "killing my pocket" no matter what I goss.

I understand you are from another area and prices are not comperable. I am debating using closing rate and or by the hour to justify undercutting a job to secure the sale. I am not calling you a undecutter. This is a great discussion. As long as there are folks out there "competent well equiped" washers settling for a price rather than pushing the ceiling....the less money we all make this year and for the most part next year.

Tree trimmers in my area get 300 p/hour. So, does that mean if you can turn a great profit at 200 you should charge that? Sure you will be busier than a wet hornet, but you are raping the market and killing your pocket!

[plainpainter 217]

Everyone, listen to Thomas' opinion - because the contrary opinions will eventually lead to a market where you guys are competing with each other at 15.00 bucks an hour. Don't believe me? Try looking at craigslist sometime and what painters are charging. God forbid the mexicans and brazilians get into your profession - you can talk about a professional job and insurance up the wazoo with customers, it won't make a bit of difference when they see how cheap the immigrants will do it. I have to fight tooth and nail to charge customers $40/hour for my painting services.

And my neigbor got his two story aluminum sided house, approx 1600 sq. foot home, for $255 from a contractor that does pressure washing only.

And this is in a high priced part of the country.

-Dan

[Chappy 138]

periodically i'll go by a home I bid on to see if it was done, as long as i'm in the neighborhood. Im actually surprised to see that a good portion just didnt have the work done. Ive also had calls 6 months after the estimate was given. Cust finally decided to have it done.

Just be glad were not painters. theyre happy at making $25/hr locally because there are more of them than there are PWers. And that doesnt include the immigrants and unlicenced ones.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Just be glad were not painters. theyre happy at making $25/hr locally because there are more of them than there are PWers. And that doesnt include the immigrants and unlicenced ones.

This is the ONE reason why I'd consider being in favor of government licensing for the PW trade...It wouldn't completely do away with fly by nighters and illegal operators, but it would help. The question is, would it help enough to outweigh the cons of government regulation!

[HotShot 34]

good point Mike. I'm hardly ever for more govt, but I think you make a valid point. I'd have to research more and find out more facts to weigh the pros and cons.....(not that it makes any difference right now)

[Thomas 14]

In a perfect world having the government regulate/fine or make it cost more for licenses etc...would

be great. The cutthroats are not following the rules now, so why make more? More expense for the guy following the rules.

Lets face it...pw'ng, roof cleaning is full of ignorant uneducated "born again " criminals. You just have to be better than them!! I mean how hard will it be to outwork or outsmart one of the above mentioned retards?

It seems to me.....it just takes time to fill your client list up full with people like ME. Once you do....the bubbas' just fight for the crumbs like they have been there whole life.

Oh and on a sidenote.....the less the government is in/looking at your pocket the better you are imo.

WE can make the market better with great disscussions lie this one..on our own.

[HotShot 34]

Thomas...I agree with you with most of what you said. The problem is, there are far too many people just looking for cheap. Take Walmart for instance, I'm not bashing Walmart, just making an example. Largest company in the world....Do they have the best quality products...uhm, I'll let you answer that one. But they are cheap, and that's why people go there.

When I go soliticing new accounts, I rarely mention a price unless they ask straight up...but I sell the quality of my work and my customer service, but there are those customers that all they care about is price.

[Thomas 14]

Those people that are looking for cheap service are not my targeted audiance. Remember, I said people like ME.

As far as walmart... I and I stress the word I...would go to comp usa for a new computer part or mattres firm for a new bed. Thats why I shoot for clientel like ME.

Look at the people that shop at walmart...do you think they would hire a pro pw'r or roof cleaning co? or shop the advertisments for the lowest price?

Hot shot you hit the nail dead on teh head when you explained how you rarely mention price. When I get someone shopping and saying "xyz will do it for 100" I tell them to hire them! If the want the best service..hire me! I dont want to wash your house next year for 100. Stupid is stupid does.....survival of the fittest!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

ok, that was a little harsh. I havent been lowballed lately at all..maybe the last lean spell killed all the bubbas'?

p.s. If I were to be lowballed by an illegal alien...I would waite till he sets up on the job and call the authorities. Thats just the way I am....I think we should jail all illegals and make them build a huge f'n wall between U.S and mexico on a chain gang. They are sucking you and I clean!!!!

[Mike Williamson 198]

p.s. If I were to be lowballed by an illegal alien...I would waite till he sets up on the job and call the authorities. Thats just the way I am....I think we should jail all illegals and make them build a huge f'n wall between U.S and mexico on a chain gang. They are sucking you and I clean!!!!

How do you know they're illegal? I mean, they aren't driving around with a sign saying "Illegal Mexican Powerwash Service" are they?

Or do we assume that every mexican doing lawn care, pressure washing, etc, is an illegal trying to lowball us?

[aquabob 14]

How do you know they're illegal? I mean, they aren't driving around with a sign saying "Illegal Mexican Powerwash Service" are they?

Or do we assume that every mexican doing lawn care, pressure washing, etc, is an illegal trying to lowball us?

you can tell if they are illegal by weather or not they speak english. most of them understand and can speak only a few words.

maybe not all of them are illegal but most of them are,

i cant touch new construction because they work all day for 100.00, i use to do new construction concrete cleaning and charged them 200.00 a lot, driveway and foundation. would do 3 a day, and bill them 600.00.

they got a mexican cleaning crew that had a pawnshop

pwer and some acid to do the job for 100 a day, they

got 3 houses done for 100.00 vs 600.00.

same goes for the painters, tile layers, sheetrockers,

bricklayers, hardwood floor installers etc etc etc,

dont know what i will do this winter, probably take a part time job somewhere.

hey, they are here to do the jobs that americans wont do.

rest assured that you will see more and more of them entering the pw biz over time.

[Thomas 14]

We should assume they are all illegal. We have been giving them the benifit of doubt and look at where we are now.

I have and will call ins on them. Passive its ok attitude has killed us...like aquabob said..it is easy to spot them. At least here in tampa..they either dont speak any english or you can find twelve of em packed into

a f250 that we as tax payers prolly paid for. Its time for each american to do there duty and not hire these

bastards. Unfortunatly the same schmuck shopping at walmart looking for something for nothing is the same ignorant hillbilly driving a 10 yr old cavelier with 400pounds of trash in it hiring them. lol j/k

[Mike Williamson 198]

We should assume they are all illegal. We have been giving them the benifit of doubt and look at where we are now.

I have and will call ins on them. Passive its ok attitude has killed us...like aquabob said..it is easy to spot them. At least here in tampa..they either dont speak any english or you can find twelve of em packed into

a f250 that we as tax payers prolly paid for. Its time for each american to do there duty and not hire these

bastards. Unfortunatly the same schmuck shopping at walmart looking for something for nothing is the same ignorant hillbilly driving a 10 yr old cavelier with 400pounds of trash in it hiring them. lol j/k

giving them the benefit of the doubt??? Kinda like I do you, or anyone else? For all I know, you're an illegal from Bosnia or somewhere else that looks like me. Just because they're mexican, cuban, or whatever, doesn't mean they're illegal...Many of them are just as American as you or me (if you're really an American). Calling INS on someone just because they look mexican or are speaking spanish, is just another form of racism.

[Thomas 14]

I think you took what I said a little further than it meant to be.

If not liking illegal aliens in particular illegal mexicans...is racist, well then call me a racist.

I guess the better phrase would be the "racially profiled" alien. lol

[plainpainter 217]

technically speaking, racism, is the belief that one race is intrinsically better than another - I believe you mean profiling. Everybody profiles - and in this business, it's real easy to profile a crew of illegal immigrants. I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. I have spoken to people who live near the inner city, in my case Boston, and have come to find out that most people are pissed at immigrant labor - apparently in the big cities people have much more experience with illegals and have had several go-arounds with them, that they now insist on people who speak english as a first language. Mind you, these people have been telling me horror stories. It's the people in the suburbs, that are the unsuspecting ones, or at least are still dreaming that illegals offer the same quality for much less money. Reality will hit eventually - it's just a wave. Back in the old days - some agency use to go around to unsuspecting painting companies on the job - and asked painters on the spot to show their Riggers' license. And if they weren't licensed, they were gone! Too bad they don't require painters to have such licensing anymore - I guess the quality of ladders is just so much better than 40 years ago.

-Dan

[Mike Williamson 198]

I think you took what I said a little further than it meant to be.

If not liking illegal aliens in particular illegal mexicans...is racist, well then call me a racist.

I guess the better phrase would be the "racially profiled" alien. lol

Maybe I misunderstood...I just don't see how you can "tell" they're illegals by looking at them...they're more likely just as American as you or I...

I said nothing of racism regarding illegals...I said assuming they're illegals just because they're mexican or speak spanish is just another form of racism. Nothing wrong with not liking illegals being here taking work and money...Everything wrong with assuming someone is illegal just because they look different.

[Kory 14]

We are going to have to move this thread it got off topic ummkay!