Honest debate Iraq

[Jeff 232]

I'm just wondering what everybody's opinion is on the Iraq war. You can't trust our politicians to really be honest when debating the war and I'd just like to know what others think about it. Now most know that I'm liberal in my thinking. With that said I do and always have believed in a strong military, VERY strong. I believed in the war in Afghanistan.

On the Iraq war I never believed it was a good idea and I never really believed that George Bush was going to Iraq for terrorism & 9/11. I know many will say that I'm a GWBush hater but besides that whats your feelings on Iraq

I always thought GW Bush was going to war with Iraq even before 9/11, he didnt like Saddam since Saddam tried to put a hit on GBush Sr.

Do you think the entire war or some of it has been handled wrong, should we have ever gone, should we stay the course for unlimited time, should we have a date in mind to start pulling troops. should we institute a draft so our stressed military gets a break, should we send a couple hundred thousand more troops and squash the insurgency and bring Iraq back to order

I personally think we never should of gone. We had Saddam contained and he kept Iran in check, now Iran doesnt give a crap what anyone one says and Europe is a bunch of s--- heads and will never support us.

I'm thinking back the troops back to outer areas and see what happens if Iraq seperates so be it. Im thinking we should get our troops out within the next 2 years and only leave a small amount of troops to try to watch out over our interests

I hate the thought that we are fighting a losing battle for a country that is fighting its self and will end up hating us anyway.

As for the middle east, just about all of it is starting to hate us the U S. Hell I'd like to nuke them all right about now and take all the oil. I think Muslims in that area are going to always hate us and its going to get worse.

What do you think, I'm not trying to start a big fight I'm just trying to see what others think other than what you hear or read in the news

I want our mititary that is doing tour after tour home, either get out completly or draft others to fight.

God Bless Our Troops & The USA

[John T 744]

I don't know what the Bible says about who's good or not since I'm not to religious I can't refer to it at all. From My own experiences in life and in Law Enforcement I would say that most people are good by a wide margin. I would say over 90% of the people all around the world are good people.

THe problem with todays societies thats never really happen in the past is that now we can most likely destroy this planet completely where no life can inhibit here. There are numerous weapons of mass destruction held by many different countries where some we know about and some we don't. Along with that there is chemical warfare that can be the end all of end alls. This is where in MHO is the difference from today to yesteryear.

And unfortunetly if the world was to come to a screaching halt the two main reasons will be because of Religion........and Greed. To Lethal Combo's by anyone standards.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Did we leave Korea? Did we leave Japan? Did we leave Germany? Did we anyone? Do you folks really believe we are going to leave this country?

Get real!!!!!!!!!

[Jon 533]

First I have not read the replies so if I repeat what others say sorry.

Won't go into a long thing here but war is hell regardless of who is fighting.

What got me from the start is you never warn your enemy for SIX month your going to attack them, that gives the enemy all the time they need to prepare, hide things and drum up support for help.

I have always said war serves a few purposes, one is and most will not like this but to control population since so many die during fighting.

What I have a hard time with is how everyone and every country says you cannot kill females, kids, non army personal etc.

Face it when your in a war you're on one side or the other, there is no middle ground.

---------------------

Pardon me Ma'am are you friend or foe?

Hey you kid, you with the gun, whose side are you one?

Shot first, ask questions later when in a war zone.

Feel free to agree or disagree with me but if you want to talk in more detail we can with Email or phone calls.

Jon

[Jeff 232]

I just got finished watching the rerun of the TV movie " FLIGHT 93 " I've seen it 3 times and its always so emotional for me. I think they "the TV channels " should replay the Sept. 11 attack at least once a month so we all can remember that horrible day and remember those we as a country have lost. I watch the planes hitting the Towers or the Flight 93 movie and I tear up and feel so bad for all the victims & families, but my biggest emotion is ANGER.

I dont know if we should of gone to Iraq as part of the 911 war. But I know we should be fighting terrorism as hard as we can everyday. I think we should be as ruthless as our enemy. Radical Islam should be fought & killed daily. We see radical clerics on TV hear about them on radio, TV & the papers, we have many that spew hate right here in the US. Why dont we do what they would do if they could, KILL THEM. If a cleric spews hate about us, lets kill them. I figure if these clerics see that everytime they say kill Americans or spew hate and terroristic messages they will die. If a new cleric takes their spot , kill that one and the next & the next. These clerics arent brave they are wimps, you dont see them taking risk, they hide in their Mosques and use the religeon as a shield. They mostly use the poor , uneducated to do their dirty work.

Kill the ones spewing hate and their message wont be as quick to get out. We should have undercover hit squads just for these radical clerics. If they know theres a good chance they will be dead within a year or so of them spewing hate towards US , I bet you wont ee them standing up as much

I'm sorry for all my hateful speaking here but that Flight 93 movie just makes me so sad & mad

[Jeff 232]

God Bless all the victims & families of 911 and our brave soldiers that protect and fight everyday.

If anyone could post a list of the victims of 911 and a list of our soldiers that have died in Afganistan & Iraq I would like to read their names and remember them

Good bless the brave souls that fought back on Flight 93

:lgangel:

[Deck Guy 14]

Here you go Jeff.

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm

[Celeste 341]

Thanks Larry - what a link!

Celeste

[Jeff 232]

Thank you Larry!

Its strange to me that Flight 93 was the only flight that was able to get phone calls off before they crashed.

God its such a long list, Bless their souls

NEVER FORGET the victims & Never forget who did this

[HotShot 34]

Jeff...great post earlier about the movie Flight 93...I watched it yesterday too...I wanted to jump through the tv and strangle those guys with their red bandannas.

One thing though...Flight 93 wasn't the only one to have cell phone calls before they crashed. The plane that crashed into the Pentagon had a well known conservative writer on it, and she was talking to her husband. I can't remember her name right now for some reason, but I have one of her books about Ronald Reagan....

[Mike Williamson 198]

Thanks Larry - what a link!

Celeste

Yeah, start clicking on names and looking at pictures...that really drives it home.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Jeff...great post earlier about the movie Flight 93...I watched it yesterday too...I wanted to jump through the tv and strangle those guys with their red bandannas.

One thing though...Flight 93 wasn't the only one to have cell phone calls before they crashed. The plane that crashed into the Pentagon had a well known conservative writer on it, and she was talking to her husband. I can't remember her name right now for some reason, but I have one of her books about Ronald Reagan....

Barbara Olson

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/VictimInfo.asp?ID=127

[Mike Williamson 198]

Thank you Larry!

Its strange to me that Flight 93 was the only flight that was able to get phone calls off before they crashed.

God its such a long list, Bless their souls

NEVER FORGET the victims & Never forget who did this

Just going through the list of names and seeing the children, and in some cases entire families, on those planes....just kindles such a hatred of those who did the, and who continue to seek to destroy us and our way of life. Pacify them? Cater to them? Reason with them? Give in to them??? NEVER.

[Don L 14]

Amen,Mike.We are at war.

[HotShot 34]

Barbara Olson

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/VictimInfo.asp?ID=127

that's it Mike...thanks.

[shrido 14]

Hello all,

First of all I would like to commend all of you for sharing your views, as only this country will allow. I have been a member of this board for some time even if I don’t post very often. As a lurker, I would like to thank all of you for your valuable experience, and all that I have learned. I am no longer in the power wash biz as my family I and are ones that you are talking about. I come from a long line of military people. I am now in the army and have been for 25 yrs (active and reserve). My wife is an Active army nurse. We are BOTH in Iraq at this time. My son has just enlisted in the army and is in Basic training, to soon be on his way here, my other son is with friends in Ill, My wife has 2 sons with family back home, so I think I qualify to discuss all the hardships that are going on. Not to mention other members of my family that are in the military. I’m not really sure what to say here as so many have said so much. Some are right, and some are wrong. Some have done there own research, and some take the word of others as gospel without checking. I can tell you from here that its not pretty, but, there are so many good things going on here that NO ONE gets the opportunity to hear about. Remember, the media is a business. You cant make money unless you sell. Whether its *** or tragedy, that’s what sells. As an Operations NCOIC, I see first hand what the ppl here say, I deal with the Iraqi people all the time, some want us here and others don’t, but most do. Its really hard to explain unless you are HERE. I don’t care about the politics of the matter. I am here to help the Iraqi People, but its hard when others try to kill you. I was asked one time if “ I thought that we should be here”, My response was “ I am a soldier, If I think about WHY we are here then I cant do my job, and that is to make sure my team and I stay alive, If I have to worry about WHY we are here then I cant do that to the best of my ability”. You all back home are fortunate that you can watch the news, we don’t have much TV, or good internet where Im at. I have been to good places in this country where the only thing you have to worry about is an IED. Now, Im in Ramadi. You watch the news, so you figure it out whats its like here. To all of you that are former military, God Bless you all. Whether in peace time, or at war, you can understand what we do. To those of you that are not, your support is welcome. The people here are like you and me, they want to be free and do there own thing, and not be worried about someone trying to change their minds by trying to kill them for their religion, or who tries to help them. Most of the problem here is not the Iraqi people, but the insurgence from outside, and others taking advantage of the situation to just do bad things. I think that I might have gotten lost here and wondered a bit, I wont talk of the politics of the matter and cant talk of other things, but if you have anything further to say then I will respond given the internet holds up J. And once again this is a good thread, as no one has shot anyone yet, J Thank you for your support, and God bless. Sorry about the size of this.

John

[WEW 14]

Dont matter it's all part off the program.

ISYHTRAH

Lord bless the families of those killed on 911. Our military, and the folks in charge. Protect our soldiers from harm and help us get all those bastards!!!

[kevinw 14]

John

I posted on this thread earlier...but felt compelled to tell you THANK YOU!! Thank you for your response...and more importantly, thank you for your service! I know that what you are doing, you are doing for me...and everyone in the U.S. God Bless You!

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my son is a brand new 2nd LT. and will be deploying to Iraq next Summer. When he tells me about the men he is serving with, their commitment and service, it is incredibly humbling. He also tells me that is is the men and women, like you, that are making this work and doing the work.

Thanks for you input, it means a lot. Please take the advice that I've given my son...take care of yourself. If you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of your team. God Bless...and when you're finished there, come back home to us!

kevinw

[HotShot 34]

John,

Thank you for your service to our country. I know you have better things to do than be over there getting shot at, but you're there anyway. A very close family friend is over there and he pretty much says the same as you..most want us there and some don't. Leaving the politics aside, you and your family are doing a great service to your country, and we appreciate it very much.....Stay safe sir.

[WEW 14]

John

I posted on this thread earlier...but felt compelled to tell you THANK YOU!! Thank you for your response...and more importantly, thank you for your service! I know that what you are doing, you are doing for me...and everyone in the U.S. God Bless You!

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my son is a brand new 2nd LT. and will be deploying to Iraq next Summer. When he tells me about the men he is serving with, their commitment and service, it is incredibly humbling. He also tells me that is is the men and women, like you, that are making this work and doing the work.

Thanks for you input, it means a lot. Please take the advice that I've given my son...take care of yourself. If you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of your team. God Bless...and when you're finished there, come back home to us!

kevinw

Kevin, Please thank your son for his service. I can relate, my son just started his 5th week of Navy basic at Great Lakes Training Command. I'm so proud of him I could burst.

He's led prayer at chow several times. Has had cadets that said they never would, asking him to pray for them. When it gets down to the wire where do we turn? Believer and non believer.

ISYHTRAH

[timbertramp 14]

Thank all of you for your support and service. I spent 22 years in the military and this wednesday, my son went back to Iraq after his 15 days leave. He spent most of it with his wife and daughter but we did get in one day of fishing in the mountains. He feels they are welcome in Iraq and are doing a good thing so that is good enough for me. Kem