Getting Shot Down!

[Aaron Sullivan 14]

ok,

you aren't going to hurt my feelings here, but i want to know what ya'll would have charged for this job. i got hungup on when i gave her the prices for this project. i feel like they are very fair prices, but you never know your customer.

anyways, here is what it was...

a deck, one half story off the ground, easy access all the way around...1800 sq ft of floor and 270 linear feet of your typical railing.

a house, one story on two sides (138 linear feet) and one and a half on the other two (62 linear feet). overall on this project is about 1820 square feet.

i bid the following...

deck - clean, strip and stain with ready seal - $2565

house - clean, strip and stain with ready seal - $3640

let me know what ya'll think.

thanks,

aaron

[Celeste 341]

Your pricing for both is about what we would have charged for the deck. I didn't even figure the house bid after the deck math :)

Celeste

[JFife 14]

....More than fair. Call her back and apologize and say, "I am sooooo sorry ma'am, I got the numbers wrong, the actual total is more like $2100.00. I thought it looked funny, but it wasn't until you hung up on me that I figured out what I did wrong on my pricing. At that price, would you like to shedule for Sept. 15?"

Then call on Sept. 15 and re-schedule for Oct. 10. Do this a couple more times, and finally call her back and say, "you know what, I went back over the numbers, and I was actually right the first time. So are you still interested in getting it done at $5800.??"

....Or you could just call them at around 3am and say, "hey I'm sorry, we got cut off earlier today...probably my cell phone. I didn't get to complete my proposal about restoring your deck."

Probably best just not to sweat it. Just be glad you aren't married to her--it could be worse.

[JFife 14]

Aaron,

If i may critique you though, this doesn't sound like a Williamson Co. house, or a WillCo customer. Or GH, BelleMeade (target zones). For this to have been the response, at the PROPOSAL OF BID, you obviously didn't weed-out aggressively enough. I bet it was a YP call. You have to be aggressive in weeding these out....point them out to pics on your website and say, "is your house about this size? Oh yes, this was a great project, they were thrilled. You can call them as a referral. We did X, X, X, X, and X, all for $6,800 on this home, which is a great value for a high-end Co. like ours." The good customers will just ignore this and say, "i'd like for you to stop by when you get a chance," the bad ones will say, "it's gonna cost that much? I didn't realize that." At that point, say, "well, knowing this is the price range we are in, are we wasting each others time to pursue with an estimate? I realize quality service isn't cheap, but what are your options?" If they say, "come on", there is a good chance they are a buyer and were setting you up with the "dang that's high" remark. If they are a gentleman and cannot/will not afford it, they'll pass. If they are true white trash, they'll still ask you to come, and tell you it is ten times higher than they want. Tough to weed those out.:)

[Don M. 14]

ok,

you aren't going to hurt my feelings here, but i want to know what ya'll would have charged for this job. i got hungup on when i gave her the prices for this project. i feel like they are very fair prices, but you never know your customer.

anyways, here is what it was...

a deck, one half story off the ground, easy access all the way around...1800 sq ft of floor and 270 linear feet of your typical railing.

a house, one story on two sides (138 linear feet) and one and a half on the other two (62 linear feet). overall on this project is about 1820 square feet.

i bid the following...

deck - clean, strip and stain with ready seal - $2565

house - clean, strip and stain with ready seal - $3640

let me know what ya'll think.

thanks,

aaron

Aaron, your prices sound good to me, but I would have been over 3 grand on the deck. I've never used RS, so I dont know what the cost breakdown per sq ft is.

They'll probably try and do it themselves, then they will call you back. Its happened to me before.

Don

[PressurePros 249]

Deck alone would have been $4500. House another $5000. If I was desperate for work maybe $8500 for both.

Silly question.. why were you quoting a job of that magnitude over the phone?

[Barry M 73]

Your pricing for both is about what we would have charged for the deck. I didn't even figure the house bid after the deck math :)

Celeste

Same here on the deck, a story and a half high strip, easily $2.00 a sq ft. I get about $6,000 just on the deck.

Now I might have come down a little on that since the house was to be done also but I think your bid was low. I know it sucks Aaron and it sounds like it's really bothering you, I feel ya. Just got turned down on a big job myself, three decks needing cleaned and sealed. I bid it as low as possible to try and get it, gave the normal presentation with pictures, testimonials, and referrals. Talked to the guy for awhile and felt good about it. He called back two days later and said the bid was too high and he'd have to pass. Even though he was a gentlemen about it, it still hurts. I dwelled on it for about 2 days because that's how I am, but I had to tell myself to let it go. It just wasn't meant to be.

If I can't make $60-$70 an hour after expenses then I don't want the job. I couldn't go any lower on this deck and still make what I want to make, I'm not a lowballing hacker. I feel my level of quality and professionalism is worth what I ask. You can only do your best to get the job Aaron, the rest is in God's hands.

[PLD 14]

....More than fair. Call her back and apologize and say, "I am sooooo sorry ma'am, I got the numbers wrong, the actual total is more like $2100.00. I thought it looked funny, but it wasn't until you hung up on me that I figured out what I did wrong on my pricing. At that price, would you like to shedule for Sept. 15?"

Then call on Sept. 15 and re-schedule for Oct. 10. Do this a couple more times, and finally call her back and say, "you know what, I went back over the numbers, and I was actually right the first time. So are you still interested in getting it done at $5800.??"

SWEET!! That one is going in my book.

[PLD 14]

Deck alone would have been $4500. House another $5000. If I was desperate for work maybe $8500 for both.

Ditto.

[Aaron Sullivan 14]

Aaron,

If i may critique you though, this doesn't sound like a Williamson Co. house, or a WillCo customer. Or GH, BelleMeade (target zones). For this to have been the response, at the PROPOSAL OF BID, you obviously didn't weed-out aggressively enough. I bet it was a YP call. You have to be aggressive in weeding these out....point them out to pics on your website and say, "is your house about this size? Oh yes, this was a great project, they were thrilled. You can call them as a referral. We did X, X, X, X, and X, all for $6,800 on this home, which is a great value for a high-end Co. like ours." The good customers will just ignore this and say, "i'd like for you to stop by when you get a chance," the bad ones will say, "it's gonna cost that much? I didn't realize that." At that point, say, "well, knowing this is the price range we are in, are we wasting each others time to pursue with an estimate? I realize quality service isn't cheap, but what are your options?" If they say, "come on", there is a good chance they are a buyer and were setting you up with the "dang that's high" remark. If they are a gentleman and cannot/will not afford it, they'll pass. If they are true white trash, they'll still ask you to come, and tell you it is ten times higher than they want. Tough to weed those out.:)

actually it was the mother of a contractor we do alot of business for. i am by no means that burned up over it, i just wondered if i was in line or not.

[Aaron Sullivan 14]

Aaron, your prices sound good to me, but I would have been over 3 grand on the deck. I've never used RS, so I dont know what the cost breakdown per sq ft is.

They'll probably try and do it themselves, then they will call you back. Its happened to me before.

Don

they have already tried to do it themselves. i wish i had pictures. someone used a turbo on it. i about hit my a$$ laughing.

[Aaron Sullivan 14]

Deck alone would have been $4500. House another $5000. If I was desperate for work maybe $8500 for both.

Silly question.. why were you quoting a job of that magnitude over the phone?

i did the estimate in person. gave her the proposal over the phone. i know, it should have been in person, but it took two weeks to get it going and like i said previously, she was the mother of a great contractor we do business for.

oh well!

[mmpjr7 14]

To Strip And Brighten The Deck: .50 Cent A Sqaure Foot X 1800 Sq. Feet = 900.00 Dollars.

To Stain The Deck Using Twp Or Wolman Oil Base Semi Transparent 3 X The Clean Price = 2700.00 Total For Job 3600.00 Dollars.

Don't Ever Be To Cheap For Quality Work.

To Run And Stay In Business Cost Money.

[big mike 14]

Deck for $3000.00 The house for around $5000.00. Don't waste your energy on this one, she's looking for a painter (they usually don't know squat about wood restoration). That's my 2 cents....

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Deck: 3K+

House: would need to inspect it.

Didn't get whether the house was shake, clapboard, t-111, panel-board or wood species which could affect the price <$$$>.

Sometimes a call like that can be a tactic to see how hungry you are. Let it go. You have not made an impression of quality with them and they are probably stuck on price since the presentation did not give them anything to validate it. You did not find their pain, but your price was more painful than what they may have had in mind.

Your costs are your costs. For the services you were giving and the product being used, the price was quite fair and possibly even a little low considering the work necessary to complete a house.

I think that giving a price over the phone is a waste of your time. Getting in front of the customer on a job that size is a must. They will never appreciate the amount if they haven't gotten a chance to know you and ask many questions.

Next time try this...check the type of car in the garage. How old is it? What condition is it in? This is another indicator for you to determine if the person you are dealing with is even worth the time. Anything over 4 years old is a dead give-away. Most people with money to afford this type of service keep their vehicles newer. I have seen some people with high priced fancy schmancy cars (European and such) that have a very tight hold on their finances though (Scrooge types). These you can't please for the most part anyway so it is best to let others deal with them as they will end up losing money to them in the end as has been our experience.

Rod!~

Ps, Jon, interesting analogy on 'weeding out' customers. Funny.

[JFife 14]

Re: What Rod is saying about car quality, etc.

I've tried LIKE CRAZY to make determinations like this, only to find none of them will hold true. I've had great customers have awful landscaping and painting. I'm not criticizing Rod--I am not above profiling in the least. Only Democrats call that 'profiling'--we call it "market analysis". I just TRULY have never found the shoe that fits. And I've come to believe you really do have to treat every bid/proposal equally, with the same vigor. I've had some nasty homes be darn good customers. And visaversa.

Bad deal Aaron. Too bad it is an aquintance---kill 'em with kindness.

NEW IDEA:

Learned from sales tape. Guy sells steak knives doortodoor. He'd schedule an appt. with someone to meet them.....if he went (say, Tuesday at 9am) and they avoided him/weren't there (scared of being sold) he'd just leave.

He'd come back the NEXT DAY at 9am and shamefully and sorrowfully apologize to the lady, and say, "ma'am, I mis-read my calander. I didn't realize it until this morning, but I was actually supposed to be here yesterday. I owe you a tremendous apology. Would you accept my apology, and could we go ahead and meet now and discuss those steak knives you were interested in???"

This salesman said it sold 100% of time and here is why: If the person was honest, and said "no, I intentionally stood you up" then he wouldn't get a sale, but that RARELY happened. Most are faaaar to passive. ALMOST EVERYONE would say, "oh, don't worry about it, we can meet now". He knew at that point, if they were too passive to be honest about what they'd done, there was no way they were going to be able to resist a powerful, polished, presentation from an expert salesman. When this happened, he made a sale 100% of the time.

This guy's name was Judge Ziglar, Zig's brother and is the all-time record holder for knive sales in the country. Pretty cool I thought:)

[PressurePros 249]

I love sales. Did I ever mention that?

Profiling is risky business. My best car sale ever was made to a guy that drove into the lot in a 1975 4 door green Chevy Nova. I sold Lotus and Corvettes in a large Chevy distributorship circa 1993. The seasoned sales guys looked at me like "Fenner, you're up on this one".

The guy was very low key and when I ran his credit his FICO was 780 and his annual income was 750k per year verifiable. He probably made three times that as CEO of a very popular east coast based lawn chemical company. He bought his and her Espirit S4's and a covertible 'Vette for his college graduating son. After I got the sale and knew the guy pretty well I asked him what was up with the Nova. He told me it belonged to his aunt who wouldn't trade it in for any of the new "junk that was made nowadays" He borrowed the car so he could get the greenest salesman and an honest deal. I ate steak that month and the other sharks ate beans.

It all comes down to this, once you develop a system for weeding out price shoppers and you get the opportunity to bid a job you know you can bid fairly on, you have to pull the trigger and make the sale. If you don't have the gonads to ask for the sale directly, use an alternate close. Get them to commit to a color. Start directing the sale like you already own it. Today I sold a pretty nice sized deck and front porch both made of mahogany. The people were very gunshy and skeptical so I started asking them what color they envisioned. Did they want something that matched the siding or would they like a stark contrast to make the deck look stand out. etc etc Keep 'em talking and eventually you will close.

[JFife 14]

Nothing like the feeling of that good sale. Nothing. Nothing I've experienced. A shot of adrenaline. I get pumped just watching that show on A&E, about the used car lot in Vegas.

[PressurePros 249]

King Of Cars!

[JFife 14]

Chop Chop!!

[PressurePros 249]

We got da blue Genie..

[HotShot 34]

Aaron, are you sure it wasn't a competitor just checking your prices?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jon,

I understand your point of view on that one. It could also have a great deal to do with demographics. In our area it holds true more than not. Thanks for your perspective.

And I agree, it depends on which side of the fence you are on as to what people call it. Profiling or market analysis, it is all looking for indicators as to what you are dealing with.

For the other readers,

I have heard the Ziggy story before when I attempted (emphasis on that word is key)to be a salesman in my early years. They used his and Dale Carnegie's strategies to motivate people including a pathetic philosophy that condensed itself down to four words. "No Pain, No Gain". Truth be told, I was in a great deal of pain trying to sell something to people who didn't really need it. Did I gain anything from it? Only a huge distaste for the door-to-door salesmanship. Problem was, if I couldn't buy into what I was selling (Cutlery, china, cookware and vacuum cleaners), the techniques and strategies would not work for me. I wasn't convincing anyone because I wasn't convinced myself.

Here is the one I had the most problem with...Enthusiasm.

'If you act enthusiastic, you will be enthusiastic' is a crock. You have to be enthusiastic otherwise you are pretending and people can see through that. Genuine enthusiasm is contagious, fabricated enthusiasm repels.

Being in wood restoration, something I really enjoy and gain satisfaction from makes it easier to be the enthusiastic salesman. Knowing what I know and enjoying what I do makes it come naturally. With Enthusiasm, it becomes almost effortless to sell. You learn to understand the questions and the best way to answer them.

The main point for all I am making is this; Do what you enjoy and you will become very notable for what you produce. Learn all you can about the materials you will be working with besides the wood besides the chemicals. Learn about the coatings and what they can do in comparison with others. Learn to take into consideration all the aspects surrounding wood restoration and become knowledgeable. But only do it if you enjoy it. If you don't, you're in the wrong business.

Rod!~

[Celeste 341]

To Strip And Brighten The Deck: .50 Cent A Sqaure Foot X 1800 Sq. Feet = 900.00 Dollars.

To Stain The Deck Using Twp Or Wolman Oil Base Semi Transparent 3 X The Clean Price = 2700.00 Total For Job 3600.00 Dollars.

Don't Ever Be To Cheap For Quality Work.

To Run And Stay In Business Cost Money.

We need to talk - we're in the same area and you're not getting enough money!

Celeste

[JFife 14]

Well said Rod!! Selling is so cool---my grandpa (successful retired bank president) will only deal with a good salesperson. Few years ago he bought five Rainbow vacuums from a woman on a DTD to his home. I/we do DTD for log home stuff, but I don't view it as selling, but as marketing. It all goes in a database.

[Deck Guy 14]

I envy you guys who say you could make $1000.00 more on the deck. I would have been maybe $300.00 higher on the deck, but still would have come away with at least $100.00 an hour after direct expenses, maybe more considering how fast Ready-Seal goes on.

I can't comment on the house price, that's not my thing.