4running 14 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 Hello Everyone! My name is Kyle and I just got an older Hotsy machine. This is an old 880 it is 110v and makes about 1200 PSI. I am having some trouble with the way the burner is running. It smokes an aweful lot like white smoke, only it doesnt come from the top of the coil it comes throught the seams in the sheetmetal at the base and at the top of the coil. How do I adjust airbands, and what are they? I took the burner apart and spprayed out the nozzle with carb cleaner and pushed the igniters slightly closer together but to no avail. it almost seems as if I need to add more air, like is burning to rich. I am burning bulk Kersone Can someone please help me? Kyle Harris WO1 US Army Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Russ Johnson 141 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 Smoking out seams and the holes the nipples go through indicates raw fuel in the insulation. About the only thing you can do to stop it is to pull the coil, wash the coil and skin, and rewrap with new insulation, including the disc in the bottom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4running 14 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 Sir- Thats a great suugestion. I assume the coil pulls out from the top of the sheet metal tube? What type of insulation do I use? I assume I can just get fiberglass from a home store. When I had the burner down thats what it looked like was just regular fiberglass. My next question is the blower runs when it is supposed to, but sometimes the burner "Flames Out" and I have to re-start the machine to get it going again. Will this solve both problems or do I still need to adjust the airscrew or the air bands on the burner? Thanks for your Help! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Kassander 26 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 Here is a link to a discussion we had about the insulaton before. http://forums.thegrimescene.com/showthread.php?t=7885 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Russ Johnson 141 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 Ceramic fiber insulation is the ONLY stuff to use. It is rated for the high temps associated with direct fire contact. Fiberglass building insulation is designed to isolate two temps with a 30 to 100 degree variance. Burner stack temps can exceed 500 degrees. I have the insulation for $2.75 sq. ft. if you need some. Measure the skin diameter and call me, I'll figure out how much you'll need. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doug T 19 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 Kyle, Not to disagree with Russ and I have no experience with Hotsy or vertical burners but...on the horizontal burners that I have what you are describing sounds like partial plugged fuel burner filter or fuel nozzle. Even though you cleaned the exterior of the fuel nozzle the interior can still be plugged. At any rate, white smoke = to little fuel or to much air, black smoke= to much fuel or to little air. I would not start by adjusting air bands unless you know that some how they have changed postion. There should be a copper tubing from the fuel solenoid to the fuel nozzle. If you take it off at the nozzle end, then hold a container at the end to catch the fuel. Run the system while trying to run the burner. Observe the fuel flowing into your container. It should be a continuous steady stream. If it is not then change the fuel burner filter. If the stream is good, disconnect the fuel nozzle gun from the burner assembly, reconnect the copper line to the fuel gun external of the burner asssembly. Using a 5 gallon bucket to catch the spraying fuel, try running the system again watching the fuel from the gun spray into the bucket. That should tell you if the nozzle is plugged, Doug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Russ Johnson 141 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 The "flame out" would indicate a clogged filter or an obstruction in the fuel tank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HotShot 34 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 wow, some good info on this thread....thanks guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PWkid 79 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 Russ Johnson is da man! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4running 14 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 Guys- Man, I stil can't get this thing to fire correctly or consistently. I removed the pipe after the kerosene filter, and ran it. The Kerosene come out real nice, I also took an air hose and sprayed though the tubing from the injector to the keresene line, no blockage. I was unable to figure out a way to spray the injector outside of the heater housing, so instead I took it all apart. I removed the screen,Removed the jet and the pin wheel thing, cleaned all of of it out (it was already very clean), reassembled it, and now it still doesn't burn right and it still flames out! I wonder if just for good measure I could try a new sprayer? How should the igniters be position wise in relationship to the sprayer? Should I revisit the air bands? BTW- I peaked up inside the coil, it is all clean and clear, the insulation that I could see had no signs of being soaked with fuel. Thanks for helping me through this! Kyle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One Tough Pressure 580 Report post Posted September 9, 2006 The "flame out" would indicate a clogged filter or an obstruction in the fuel tank. I learned that the hard way, on the job. Now I always have a spare racor filter with me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4running 14 Report post Posted September 10, 2006 Im gonna call on Monday and get a new kerosene sprayer nozzle and some insulation for the coil, as well as a new element for the kerosene filter. I pulled the coil out, and it was nasty on the bottom of the barrel, lots of rust and rotten metal. I am gonna go ahead and vacuum all this out before I place the coil and the new insulation in the barrel. I hope that this new sprayer will take care of my problem. I worry about replacing this injector because I did finally figure out how to hook it up outside the burner unit and watched it spray, and it looked ok, but for the little bit of money that it costs, I'll replace it for good measure. I have done so much work to this machine that once it is finally working I think I'll pleased with the results. Once the sprayer nozzle and the insulation arrives, I'll get them installed and let everyone know how it burns. Kyle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HotShot 34 Report post Posted September 10, 2006 good luck Kyle...I have a downed pw right now with basically the same problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Russ Johnson 141 Report post Posted September 10, 2006 Kyle, I noticed from the pics you emailed me that the bottom of the coil jacket has rotted down to the coil inlet. You'll have to weld a short skirt of metal around the base to get the port lined back up with the hole in the skin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One Tough Pressure 580 Report post Posted September 10, 2006 good luck Kyle...I have a downed pw right now with basically the same problem Not your new one I hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4running 14 Report post Posted September 10, 2006 Russ- Good eye, it is VERY rotten at the bottom. I'll seek a solution to that this week. I also viewed your previous thread on alignment of the electrodes, I used those specs to align mine. do I need to sharpen those electrodes to a point like in the picture? Kyle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Russ Johnson 141 Report post Posted September 10, 2006 Not necessarily. As long as the arc has a good jumping off point, they'll be fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4running 14 Report post Posted September 26, 2006 Ok- I bought a new kerosene sprayer nozzle, a new kerosene filter,ceramic fiber insulation,and a new hose for my Hotsy machine from Southside Equipment in Louisville,KY. I just got through re-insulating the coil, barrel, and collector of the burner. I'd post pics but am not sure how. I may install the stuff for the burner and see if I can get this machine running this afternoon. But for now I have to hit the books first! Kyle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4running 14 Report post Posted September 26, 2006 this darn thing STILL wont burn! I thought I had it! I was wrong! Now this silly thing doesnt light at all! I have 105PSI out of the pump, I have a spark yet it doesn't want to burn. New sprayer New Fuel filter Different Coil I double checked, it sprays with just the gun hooked up, it sparks when the burner is out. I can hear the transformer buzzing when the burner is all hooked up. I have moved the igniters around to several locations. What gives? I may try to use this other burner and hook it up this weekend and see if I can get it to light. any fresh ideas? I am very frustrated here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HotShot 34 Report post Posted September 27, 2006 Kyle, check the obvious too...... sometimes it's just the simple things. I couldn't figure out why mine wouldn't ignite once and then I figured out that I did't have the propane turned on. I felt like such an idiot :) Step back, rest on it a little and then look at it again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4running 14 Report post Posted September 27, 2006 Well............... you guys are gonna kill me.............remember my first question about air bands?................well as it turns out this machine doesnt have any! they have been removed, thats why this darn things runs so lean! the burner is running WIDE OPEN........that is too much air! I have an old burner with air bands on it that will fit (they are both Wayne Burners) and ill see if I can get it to burn this weekend. Thanks to Mr. Tripp for pointing that out to me....and to think an hour ago I didnt even know what an airband was! I'll keep you all posted! Kyle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4running 14 Report post Posted September 27, 2006 Alright! I couldn't resist! I had to get it going this evening. It seems to burn just fine the way I have it setup. No smoke, no soot, no issues. I may close it off a little more and see how it does. I owe all of you guys who helped out. Thanks so much. Dont worry, I'm not going anywhere! This was such a fun project I'm gonna stick around and continue to fix this thing up. This forum is an awesome resource! Russ- I am gonna give you a call tomorrow to price out a down stream injection setup, that I can move to a new machine if I get one. I also need to buy a few different tips, I don't think this tip is any good at all. Airbands! wait till I get my hands on the turkey who took em' off! What was he thinking? Funny, he said the burner worked when I bought it, that was a lie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doug T 19 Report post Posted September 27, 2006 Kyle, I was about to call and see how things were going.. glad you got it runnning. Doug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Russ Johnson 141 Report post Posted September 28, 2006 Funny, he said the burner worked when I bought it, that was a lie. You forgot the crumpled newspaper...lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
