Bleach Dilema

[Degraffreed 21]

Hi to all.

I have a bleach deliema that I need a quick response on. I have moved to Indiana from Georgia and have yet to locate a 10-12% distributor. Thanks Barry for that lead in Warsaw.

I had to go to the local dollar store and purchase 10 -3qt of 6% bleach. I thought they were gallon jugs, until I started to fill my 5 gallon bucket and noticed that I had emptied 7 of the jugs into it.

I know that 6% 50-50 will place about 2% of the solution on the surface.Could I just add more 6% and less water to the mixture?

Question. Until I can locate the 12% distrubutor, What would you guys mixture consist of in order to get a good solution of a housewash mix.

I use an M5 and by adding less water to the mixture will this help in kill the mildew?

Or what would your housewash mix consist of.

I use citraclean as my detergent. Need answer ASAP before 11:00 on Sunday. Doing another residential.

[GymRat 14]

I normally mix 1 gallon of citracleen to 4 gallons of 12% and some foamer for downstreaming. Will TSP juice up this mix for better cleaning on real bad houses, and if so, what is the reccomended amount to add to my mix without possible harm to windows or siding?

Just wanted to repost my question from an earlier. Any answers would be greatly appreciated, I'm always trying to improve my methods.

[PressurePros 248]

I wouldn't John. I would think if Rowlett thought it would help he would have added it in.

[Jarrod 22]

Would 12% bleach work just as good as 12% chlorine on mold?

[David O'Connell Jr. 14]

Would 12% bleach work just as good as 12% chlorine on mold?

people use name bleach or chlorine for the same product.

If there is a difference between the two I'd like to know.

When I was a swimming pool contractor we'd use either name for the same product.

[Jarrod 22]

Thanx David

[plainpainter 217]

These are some points that manufactureres consider when putting together their cleaning products - so if you want to know what is doing what - read this:

CLEANING COMOUNDS AND THEIR FUNCTIONS

Sequestering — ability to prevent deposition of mineral salts on surfaces being cleaned.

Wetting — ability of compound to lower surface tension of water and increase ability of ater to penetrate soil.

Emulsifying, suspending — ability to emulsify fat.

Dissolving — ability of compound to speed the transfer of solids into solution.

Saponifying power — ability of compound to saponify fats, i.e. turn them into soaps.

Peptizing power — ability to attack and disperse protein.

Dispersion — the power to disperse and flocculate so that mineral films are not redeposited.

Rinsing power — ability of compound to separate from cleaned surface when water is flushed over surface.

CLEANING COMPOUNDS ARE GROUPED INTO THE FOLLOWING CLASSES:

Class Major Function

Basic Alkalies Soil displacement -- emulsifying, saponifying,

peptizing.

Complex Phosphates Soil displacement by emulsifying and peptizing. Dispersion of soil, water, softening, prevention of soil redeposition.

Surfactants Wetting and penetrating of soils, dispersion of soil and prevention of soil redeposition.

Chelating Compounds Water softening, mineral deposit control. Soil displacement by peptizing, prevention of redeposition.

Acid Cleaners Mineral deposit control, water softening.

None of the above compounds can meet all the requirements of a good cleaning agent. However, when properly blended, these compounds can be formulated to incorporate the necessary properties into one product. Some of the more basic formulations are:

Alkaline Cleaners

1. Basic Alkalies — Include caustic soda, soda ash, trisodium phosphate, sodium metasilicate.

2. Caustic Soda — High in germicidal and dissolving action. Lacks deflocculating and emulsifying power. Objectionable due to hand burning. Most corrosive alkali on metals.

3. Soda Ash — Once the principle component of washing powers. Cheapest form of alkali. Poor water softener. Only fair deflocculating and emulsification properties. Good buffer. When used in hard water, calcium carbonate is precipitated causing hard water spotting. This may be prevented when soda ash is used in conjunction with higher phosphates to sequester water hardness.

4. Trisodium Phosphate -- Readily soluble, excellent deflocculant and emulsifier. Only fair water softener due to flocculent character of Calcium and Magnesium phosphates formed -- relatively corrosive on tin unless sodium metasilicate is present.

5. Sodium Metasilicate -- High active alkalinity and emulsifying properties. Fair water softener, noncorrosive. Protects metals against corrosion by other alkalies. Very effective in holding soil in suspension.

Complex Phosphates

Excellent cleaning components and first in respect to water softening. Also very effective in emulsification, dispersion, protein peptizing and prevention of soil redeposition.

1. Pyrophosphate -- Most widely used, cheapest, lacks calcium sequestering power. Stable alkaline conditions, slow to dissolve.

2. Tripolyphosphate -- Superior to pyrophosphate in calcium & sequestering power. Readily soluble.

3. Tetraphosphate -- Unstable in high temperature solutions.

4. Hexa Methophosphate -- Most effective sequestering agent when calcium is considered. Most costly. Lacks sequestering power on calcium when magnesium hardness is present. Unstable under high temperatures or alkaline conditions.

Wetting Agents

Soluble in cold water, unaffected by water hardness. Permits better rinsing in hard water. Effective over a wide range of pH. Permits use of alkaline and acid detergents. When added to these cleaners, wetting agents improve the wetting and penetrating properties of the product. When in low concentrations of 0.15%, they reduce surface tension to half the original value. Increased concentrations fail to lower surface tension materially beyond this point so that amounts of wetting agents used in cleaners are usually small.

Three types of wetting agents are:

1. Anionic wetting — Most common are the sulfated alcohols and alkyl aryl sulfonates.

2. Nonionic — Complex organic chemicals fairly new to market. Liquid compounds containing no water. Compatible with anionic and cationic materials.

3. Cationic — Best known are the quaternary ammonium compounds. These are often used as germicides rather than cleaners. In the wetting agent family, they are actually poor wetters.

Chelating Compounds -- organic sequestering agents.

Prevention of water hardness precipitation normally performed by polyphosphates. However, chelating compounds are stable to heat.

1. Sodium salts of ethylene diamine tetra acetic acid

2. Other organic acid salts

These agents vary considerably in their ability to sequester heavy metals, such as calcium magnesium and iron.

Chlorine

Reacts strongly with proteins and markedly increases effectiveness of alkaline cleaners. Use of 50-200 ppm of chlorine increases peptizing ability of alkaline cleaners. Important since the elimination of protein films also eliminates the binding sites for the build up of mineral deposits.

Commonly used chlorine components:

1. Chlorinated trisodium phosphate

2. Hypochlorites

3. Chloroisocyanuric

Acid Cleaners

Are very effective in cleaning surfaces on high temperature heat exchange equipment. A wide choice of products are available. These products are usually a blend of organic acids, inorganic acids or acid salts usually with a wetting agent. To be effective, an acid detergent should produce a pH of 2.5 or less in final use solution. It should work well in hard or soft water and show a minimum of corrosion on metals.

It is sometimes recommended that such a detergent be used once a month. In commercial dishwashing machines to assist in the removal of any build up of mineral deposits. However routine use of an acid detergent in dishwashing machines is not recommended.

Cleaning Compounds - Application

COMPOUND SELECTION

The physical state of the cleaning agent must be considered so as to be compatible with the surface to be cleaned.

Liquid — more hazardous to handle but provides better concentration control.

Powdered — frequently overused.

When cleaning is done by hand, do not use strong acids or alkalies. Magnesium, calcium, iron, and manganese salts will precipitate more readily from alkaline solution than acid solution. Therefore, the conditioning of rinse water with acid to a pH of 6.8 or less will minimize the deposition of mineral salts on cleaned surfaces.

CLEANING COMPOUNDS CONCENTRATION

Concentration required usually based on concentration of active alkalinity (or active acidity) required for specific cleaning task. There exists a minimum concentration requirement for effective cleaning. Increasing the concentration will increase cleaning efficiency but at a decreasing rate. Thus, a maximum concentration exists for any practical improvement in cleaning.

EXTERNAL ENERGY FACTORS

The cleaning process can be improved by increasing external application of energy. This can be accomplished by increasing temperature or force applied. The effect of time is also considered an external force.

Increased Temperature

• Decreases bond strength between soil and surface.
  
• Decreases viscosity of solution and increases turbulence.
  
• Increases solubility of soluble materials.
  
• Increases chemical reaction rates.

For any food soil, the minimum effective temperature will be about 5°F higher than the melting point of fat. The maximum temperature will depend on the temperature at which the protein in the system is denatured.

Time

All other factors of cleaning being constant, cleaning can be improved utilizing longer times. However, as in the case of cleaning agent concentration, increasing the time for cleaning beyond a certain point provides little additional increase in effectiveness.

Force

"Elbow grease" or fluid flow for CIP systems (5 ft/sec or more)

[PressurePros 248]

Good info, Dan. You should put that in a separate thread.

[Thomas 14]

plainpainter knows his shat. Savogran is the bomb diggity. If you cant get that look for tsp that is "average elemental phosporous content 7.3% in the form of phosphates".

[Ron Strickland 14]

Household Bleach is 5.25% to no more than 6.25% buffered down strength.

Sodium Hypochlorite(Pool Bleach) is 12.5%. When Sodium is manufactured it is about 20% but when it finally settles down it remains at 12.5%. By law it cannot be any stronger.

If you own an X-Jet (original or M-5), mix 1/2 gallon to 1 gallon Sodium Hypochlorite to 4.5 to 4 gallons of water respectively with some Dawn and use no proportioner.

If you are cleaning siding to remove Mildew, Mold, Algae or surface dirt; I can promise you this proceedure will work. Now you don't have to worry about breakdown percentages.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Ron are you still around?

[John Orr 206]

Hey Ron! Thanks for resurrecting this thread. I had forgotten Dan's post CLEANING COMPOUNDS AND THEIR FUNCTIONS. Excellent info.