What will happen to iraq?

[Guest Danebob]

Well i would just like to know some thoughts on the war. What is your position now that we are looking at new elections which could turn the the direction of the war. Pulling out is a scary thought. I belive in the war. I have friends family who have been and are going to iraq. It is a real thing to me. I've grown up in the military. The democrats talking about pulling out of iraq is goining to be pushed to occur quickly im afraid. if it happens...well lets just pray that it dosn't.

So what other comments on this subject are out there?

Thanks. GOD SPEED!

[A Fountain 14]

I support the war 100%! IMO we need to see this thing through, for the fallen men and woman who have unselfesly served our country without waivering. Its easy to sit here in the comfort of our homes (thanks to the milatary) and complain, but not many would fight for it. As you can see i grew up a milatary brat, then spent years in the service and oh yea my son is in now and will be headed to the sand box soon.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[suzuki98 14]

I dont know what will happen but I think we should pull out. As former military myself I appreciate and respect what all the branches have been doing. When you fight an invisible enemy it's pretty hard to get control and restore some type of order.

[A Fountain 14]

I hear what you're saying but how then do you suggest we combat these terriorist? Dude there not going to stop until we prove eo them that you mess with the bull you get the horn..

Aaron

[danster 15]

I agree the US should stay and finish what they started. But you will need outside help. The US military is strained as it is. Right now it looks pretty ugly in Iraq and the help of a few nations I'm sure would be quite appreciated by the Iraqians. G.W. will have to swallow his pride and accept he's not winning and make amends with some countries and ask for help.

Just my opinion.

Dan

[Guest Danebob]

If we did pull out we would be fallowed by the terrorists and other nations would lose trust in the americans I think.

We started and we need to finish.

[Deck Guy 14]

Over 100 Iraqi's die every day plus whatever American casualties. Somehow I don't think the Iraqi kids who are losing their mothers and fathers are going to be waving our flag ever. We are creating greater anti-American sentiment the longer we stay. At least we can be guaranteed to have someone to fight against for a couple generations if we choose to stay.

I'd like to see a way out, but it will turn into a bloodbath wether we do it sooner or later.

[dave 14]

I agree the US should stay and finish what they started. But you will need outside help. The US military is strained as it is. Right now it looks pretty ugly in Iraq and the help of a few nations I'm sure would be quite appreciated by the Iraqians. G.W. will have to swallow his pride and accept he's not winning and make amends with some countries and ask for help.

Just my opinion.

Dan

In case you didn't know there are other counties with soldiers fighting in iraq ever heard of Britain or Australia?

[plainpainter 217]

Not to flame anyone - but anyone who believes in this war should get their head examined - it's been one total utter failure. And what I don't appreciate, is how the Conservative Right portrayed anyone who has dissented on the war as somehow not supporting our troops!?! I don't know one Democrat who doesn't support our troops - and any talk about how we have to honor troops already perished by continuing on and finishing this up - whatever finishing means? Is totally out of control, you don't set war policy based on casualities, if this war is a total mess and we should pull out as recommended by several reports, then casualites or not - we should pull out. I feel our troops have served honorbly - but in no way should past casualties be part of any decision making as to whether we should stay the course or not. I think it's sad that so many lives have been lost - and I strongly feel have been lost for no apparent reason - as of yet no one has ever given me a good reason why we should be in Iraq - THERE IS NONE! And once again, we as Americans will look bad for what the presidency has done. Do you know, due to our presence in Iraq which has disrupted stuff like Hospitals and running water - over 300,000 lives have been lost that otherwise wouldn't have been lost had we never gone there - they were better under Saddam, sad as that may sound.

If you want my opinion - the best way to honor our fallen troops is to bring the rest of our boys home - I am sure the souls of fallen soldiers would not want anymore bloodshed. The Arab world is so vastly different from our world, they are incomprehendable, and we shouldn't try and figure them out - they have to fight this out themselves, we are not accomplishing by being in Iraq other than losing more of our boys, more civil war casualties, and more tax money squandered. There wasn't this bloodshed when Saddam was in charge.

[danster 15]

In case you didn't know there are other counties with soldiers fighting in iraq ever heard of Britain or Australia?

Yes, I do know, but the little bit of troops and help they are giving is minor. 95% of the military right now is American. I mean the US will need a hell of a lot more help. More countries will have to pitch in if they want to regain control and clean up this mess.

Dan

[kevinw 14]

If you want my opinion - the best way to honor our fallen troops is to bring the rest of our boys home - I am sure the souls of fallen soldiers would not want anymore bloodshed. The Arab world is so vastly different from our world, they are incomprehendable, and we shouldn't try and figure them out - they have to fight this out themselves, we are not accomplishing by being in Iraq other than losing more of our boys, more civil war casualties, and more tax money squandered. There wasn't this bloodshed when Saddam was in charge.

Your facts are incorrect...over 500,000 Iraqis were murdered under Saddam. Remember the rape/torture rooms in the prisons? Remember the mass graves? In Iraq, you were killed if you disagreed or weren't affiliated with the right party or sect.

Hospitals and schools were taken out by the invasion...by Allied attacks and by Iraqi loyalists. As of today many, if not most, of those hospitals have been re-opened and the same is true for electricity, running water, and schools. That is part of the U.S. mission there.

I agree that too many Iraqis are dying, but the overwhelming majority of them are being killed by insurgents. Would there still be deaths by insurgents if we weren't there? Maybe, maybe not. There's no way to tell. History has shown that if we pull out, there will be a cleansing in which many more will be killed.

I'm not happy with the situation in Iraq, and I have a significant investment (my son) in what happens there. I don't think disagreeing is being disloyal or unpatriotic. It's easy to throw stones, but before you do it make sure your statements are based on accurate information.

Kevin

[danster 15]

- as of yet no one has ever given me a good reason why we should be in Iraq -.

Daniel,

It was for WMD's, which they didn't find anything. Just a lot of political BS.

As far as pulling the troops out now well take it this way. If the cops would trash your house because they suspect your a drug dealer (hoping your not:) ) and leave without picking anything up or fixing anything what would your feelings be towards the police afterwards. Would you just say, hey, its Ok it was just a case of mistaken identity I can pay for a new house. I don't think so. Unfortunately, if the US is to regain the world's respect they will have to clean up the mess. But they can't do it alone, they will need a cleaning crew and not talking about Halliburton.

Dan

[Jeff 232]

Poor planning from the beginning possibly doomed this entire mission. The fact that Bush was going to go to Iraq before 911 and did go once 911 happened and said it was because of 911 , was a lie IMO.

Poor planning, poor planning poor planning they actually thought "Mission Accomplished" It wont probably ever be accomplished. Democratize a nation, did they ask to be democratized. I agree ith Daniel, The Middle East is more of a mess now and will be for year due to Bushes desire to go to Iraq and the VERY POOR PLANNING

I love America and will always support our troops who will fight on command for ME & all of us. It will be interesting to see if Bush will take any recomendations or Will he keep saying "Stay The Course"

God Bless America and our wonderful troops

Jeff

[Jeff 232]

Daniel,

It was for WMD's, which they didn't find anything. Just a lot of political BS.

As far as pulling the troops out now well take it this way. If the cops would trash your house because they suspect your a drug dealer (hoping your not:) ) and leave without picking anything up or fixing anything what would your feelings be towards the police afterwards. Would you just say, hey, its Ok it was just a case of mistaken identity I can pay for a new house. I don't think so. Unfortunately, if the US is to regain the world's respect they will have to clean up the mess. But they can't do it alone, they will need a cleaning crew and not talking about Halliburton.

Dan

Unfortunately there may be no way to clean this mess up and the only way we'll start to regain respect in the world more is when GW Bush is no longer President. He is one of the most hated Presidents in History, you cant tell the whole world to screw and then a few years later ask or expect them to help. Its called diplomacy and Bush never really believed in that

There is no clear right or wrong anymore its just hope for the best

Jeff

[danster 15]

Unfortunately there may be no way to clean this mess up and the only way we'll start to regain respect in the world more is when GW Bush is no longer President. He is one of the most hated Presidents in History, you cant tell the whole world to screw and then a few years later ask or expect them to help. Its called diplomacy and Bush never really believed in that

There is no clear right or wrong anymore its just hope for the best

Jeff

You are totally right, unfortunately the world has to tough out another two years:crying: of him. I just hope your wrong about no way to clean up, because it would be sad to leave the country in ruins. Because if it is, well we all know how it will end in the Iraqi history books.

Dan

[PressurePros 249]

This sums it up for me:

Some have suggested that to leave before “the job is done” would dishonor the fallen. As cold as this will sound, past deaths should not be considered in decisions about the future. The past is the past. And if the dead could speak, they would warn you against dying for their benefit. Even so, the troops HAVE accomplished a lot for which they can be proud:

1. A dictator was removed.

2. America verified to 100% certainty that Iraq had no WMD (that’s a big deal in my book)

3. Iraq has been given an opportunity for democracy, even if it does not take hold.

4. Presumably we learned a lot that will help us fight terrorism.

While our execution of the after-war was a mess, the world can’t doubt our intent to make democracy work. We bled for it. But it only counts if we leave. Otherwise we are occupiers and the Iraqi government will appear to be our puppet.

There is also genuine concern for the fate of the Iraqis if we leave. Yet, according to this opinion poll, 7 out of 10 Iraqis want us to pull out.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/sep06/Iraq_Sep06_rpt.pdf

And so the decision about leaving Iraq can be boiled down to this:

1. American troops are dying.

2. It’s impossible to know if national security is best served by staying or leaving.

3. 7 out of 10 Iraqis want us to leave.

4. We have accomplished all that we KNOW we can accomplish. Anything else is guessing.

5. Iraq diverts resources from our higher priorities.

It’s impossible to know the RIGHT answer about Iraq. But it has become simple to know the RATIONAL path. Unlike a financial investment, where you might be willing to invest in a high risk/reward situation, you can’t diversify war. If the payoff isn’t obvious and predictable, the rational thing to do is pull out and minimize troop casualties. Any other path is just guessing.

[Deck Guy 14]

Your facts are incorrect...over 500,000 Iraqis were murdered under Saddam.

The number given more frequently is around 600,000 during his 24 years in power, but that includes casualties during the Iraq-Iran war, which accounts for about 500,000 of the total. Your statement would have us believe that this number represented the evil doings of death squads and such.

As of now, there have been approximately 50,000 Iraqi civilian casualties in this war (since March 2003).

[kevinw 14]

The number given more frequently is around 600,000 during his 24 years in power, but that includes casualties during the Iraq-Iran war, which accounts for about 500,000 of the total. Your statement would have us believe that this number represented the evil doings of death squads and such.

As of now, there have been approximately 50,000 Iraqi civilian casualties in this war (since March 2003).

I guess it comes down to the statistics you choose to accept. There are over 269,000 documented cases of individuals that disappeared without an explanation during Saddam's reign. The estimated number of bodies exhumed from mass graves is over 400,000. Those numbers do not include the Iraq-Iran war, but reliable Iraqi casualty estimates for that conflict are around 100,000. However, I'm sure you can find a source that provides a number you like better. How many is enough?

CNN published a report that over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since the war started, but they don't substantiate the number with specific identities. U.S. estimates, based on specific identities, is significantly less. There's no argument that too many people are dying...and too many of them have been our troops or citizens.

So, while people are dying there, we can quibble about how many died here. Just as long as it didn't involve "death squads and such."

kevinw

[kevinw 14]

The number given more frequently is around 600,000 during his 24 years in power, but that includes casualties during the Iraq-Iran war, which accounts for about 500,000 of the total. Your statement would have us believe that this number represented the evil doings of death squads and such.

As of now, there have been approximately 50,000 Iraqi civilian casualties in this war (since March 2003).

Sorry, I mis-stated information. For the sake of accuracy regarding the Iran-Iraq war:

"Casualty figures are highly uncertain, though estimates suggest more than one and a half million war and war-related casualties -- perhaps as many as a million people died, many more were wounded, and millions were made refugees. Iran acknowledged that nearly 300,000 people died in the war; estimates of the Iraqi dead range from 160,000 to 240,000. Iraq suffered an estimated 375,000 casualties, the equivalent of 5.6 million for a population the size of the United States. Another 60,000 were taken prisoner by the Iranians. Iran's losses may have included more than 1 million people killed or maimed."

Just as long as there weren't any "death squads and such".

[Richard 17]

The world sure is in a bad state of affairs.Is there a way to pull out, and leave the Iraqi's in a position to move on??? On a percentage basis,do they really know or have the ability to live in peace.Some people only know war and hatred.

[PA Dutchman 14]

I think Buddy Ryan said it best.....turn it into a damn parking lot.

[Jeff 232]

I think Buddy Ryan said it best.....turn it into a damn parking lot.

Wish we could!!

[Jeff 232]

The world sure is in a bad state of affairs.Is there a way to pull out, and leave the Iraqi's in a position to move on??? On a percentage basis,do they really know or have the ability to live in peace.Some people only know war and hatred.

True statement. The Arabs hve been fighting and killing each others for generations and we wont change that. George Bush Sr. knew not to go into Bagdad in the 1st Gulf War. I was one of the ones who said "Why didnt he go all the way?"

I guess we know why now

Jeff

[Deck Guy 14]

CNN published a report that over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since the war started, but they don't substantiate the number with specific identities. U.S. estimates, based on specific identities, is significantly less. There's no argument that too many people are dying...and too many of them have been our troops or citizens.

Kevin,

When speaking of the Iran/Iraq war, I was addressing civilian casualties, not casualties in general as you quote in portions of your posts. I agree that all stats in regards to either are speculative at best, since each side claims great victory and minimal casualties. Civilians under Saddam may have been vulnerable to attack during the conflict, but that is very different than him killing them. Both countries attacked civilian targets in that conflict as the war progressed.

I'm just saying that civilians are dying now too, and possibly at a higher rate than when Saddam was in power, given that he ruled for 24 years.

Dead is dead, whether at the hands of Saddam, insurgents, or the U.S. I know that war is hell, but if we are there to save these people from this despicable ruler, but they are still dying, what have we accomplished?

[PLD 14]

Not to flame anyone - but anyone who believes in this war should get their head examined

That would be me and I am greateful to you for letting me know. I had no idea I was such a complete fool.

it's been one total utter failure.

Skipped out on history class, eh?

And what I don't appreciate, is how the Conservative Right portrayed anyone who has dissented on the war as somehow not supporting our troops!?!

I'm terribly sorry that you are unappreciative. But the support the troops effort was a pre-emptive strike to prevent the kind of ungrateful attitudes and general disrespect for the military that was pervasive after Vietnam. Love or hate the war, "I support the troops" was a brilliant PR move.

I don't know one Democrat who doesn't support our troops

Is you TV and radio broken? Just in caseit is, I'll throw out the name of Hillary Clinton...

you don't set war policy based on casualities, if this war is a total mess and we should pull out as recommended by several reports, then casualites or not - we should pull out.

Let me follow you this: "You don't set war policy based on casualities". But we need to pull out because this war is a "total mess". What exactly is the total mess you speak of; that our boys are dying? If so, I would remind you that "you don't set war policy based on casualities". Is the total mess that we are unsuccessful in achieveing victory? Perhaps we need more people on the ground. But we can't do that because more people will die. Oh wait, I almost forgot "you don't set war policy based on casualities"

As of yet no one has ever given me a good reason why we should be in Iraq

1. 300,000 tortured and dead.

2. Whole villages of women and childen gassed.

3. Rape rooms.

they were better under Saddam, sad as that may sound.

Dan that's not sad, that is just plain stupid.

they are incomprehendable, and we shouldn't try and figure them out

Now that doesn't sound at all bigotted...

we are not accomplishing by being in Iraq other than losing more of our boys, more civil war casualties, and more tax money squandered. There wasn't this bloodshed when Saddam was in charge.

1. No bloodshed? Yes, there was. Quite a bit of in fact. It was just kept out of the media. I would suggest that you spend a little time on sites like http://www.9neesan.com/massgraves/ before you continue posting BS like that.

2. Please reconcile these two statements for me:

A - "we are not accomplishing by being in Iraq other than losing more of our boys, more civil war casualties"

B - "You don't set war policy based on casualities"

[PLD 14]

It was for WMD's, which they didn't find anything. Just a lot of political BS.

Let me follow your logic. Based on the information I have from a credible source, I come to your house to serve a search warrant for drugs. I kick in the door in, tear apart your house, and only find minimal evidence. However, I do find 12 children gagged, bound, and being tortured in the basement.

According to your logic since my warrant was for drugs I should just leave, forget about the damage, and pretend I saw nothing. To do otherwise is "Just a lot of political BS".