Wood Tux

[Mike W 14]

Another newbie question. I was wondering if there was a way to adjust the tint of WTW? I could not find the info on extreme solutions. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[PressurePros 249]

Russell has finaly broken under the pressure and is offering pretinted colors this year. You can mix them together for the right tone or use one straight from the can.

Of course now I prefer one stock color and tinting it myself so I screwed myself by complaining.

[Mike W 14]

How did you go about tinting it yourself from the one base color?

[PressurePros 249]

I bought transoxide red pigmentation and black from a paint dealer or from Russell when he had it in stock.

[Russell Cissell 65]

Michael

Ken is correct, we are going to discontinue our tint system and begin offering all of our finishes in 5 natural colors beginning about March 15th. The colors will be Warm Honey Gold (available now), Brown Sugar, Western Cedar, Seasoned Walnut, California Redwood and Clear.

The colors can be intermixed to create half tones and other variations as needed.

Ken

It couldn't have happened to a squeakier wheel. Forgive me while I laugh directly at you.

I've been told that if you go to the paint department at HD or Lowes and ask them, some carry red transoxide pigment and a mass tone black. With those two tints, you can make any of the 5 colors in our line as well as anything you've ever made with our tint system.

[Russell Cissell 65]

Michael

If you give me a call at 636-288-8512, I would be happy to talk with you about tinting our products.

[PressurePros 249]

LOL, Wood Tux is a horrible product. You're lucky to get a month out of it.

[Mike W 14]

Thanks guys.

Russell - I'll be giving you a call soon. I was going to use a couple of other products, but with Michigan weather I am glad there is a product like this on the market.

[Barry M 73]

LOL, Wood Tux is a horrible product. You're lucky to get a month out of it.

Oh man, that's just wrong :lgbounces

[Russell Cissell 65]

LOL, Wood Tux is a horrible product. You're lucky to get a month out of it.

Thats funny you say that Ken, because I heard from your customers that their favorite thing about Wood-Tux is that it lasts and keeps you away longer.

[PressurePros 249]

Touche! It lasts too long. I have customer's decks I haven't touched in three years other than a quick cleaning. Thats not very profitable ;-)

[plainpainter 217]

Is it possible woodtux is too good a product to use straight? If a customers deck lasted 4 whole years before needing re-doing, and not even stripping - just a clean and recoat. Either my customers would love me - or they will have long forgotten me to the point I would be losing all future work. Which is more likely? At least I provide other services so I can stay in their lives.

[Russell Cissell 65]

Dan

In every major market that I've studied, there is more wood in need of restoration or preservation than there are qualified wood restoration contractors.

In other words, the demand exceeds the supply.

In every market, there are those customers seeking quality.

Wood-Tux does last longer and cut down on the required maintenance. Rather than yearly maintenance, it only requires attention every two to three years. The maintenance is extremely easy, and much faster than other products that require you to strip the entire surface each time you return for maintenance.

When you are selling to customers based on quality, you will do fewer jobs for more money. Because you don't have to go back every year for maintenance you can schedule more new work at your premium. The customers who demand quality aren't going to forget you in 3 or 4 years. They will remember you and appreciate that you delivered the quality they desired.

This also means that the referral work you get is also likely to be customers looking for quality, rather than just the lowest price. In a business that is built mainly off of referrals, your next job is likely to be very similar to the one you are working on now.

I tell contractors all the time that if you have the skills and the tools to deliver the highest level of quality you are doing yourself and the market a disservice competing with lowballers. Anyone can come in and offer blow and go services, but not everyone has the skills to service the more discerning customers. There are a lot of customers out there who want quality, and very few contractors who have what it takes to deliver.

It is a tough fight to get out there and battle every day with a "competitor" who has no insurance, healthcare, payroll or other legitimate business expenses. When it comes to a battle of price, they are going to beat you every time.

[Russell Cissell 65]

Is it possible woodtux is too good a product to use straight? If a customers deck lasted 4 whole years before needing re-doing, and not even stripping - just a clean and recoat.

I don't think the product is quite that good. Close, but not quite.

If left to age the finish would look really good for 3 or 4 years and possibly longer. If you are planning to do maintenance, you should schedule it for about halfway through the products service life. So you should check up on them every two years. You want to get back to clean and re-coat while the original application is still in reasonably good shape.

If you let it go 4 years every time, the finish may not hold up to the cleaning in some high traffic areas if the deck is really dirty, so you would then have to strip it in order to get a nice even finish on your next application.

[plainpainter 217]

I am going to use part of what you said, Russell, if you don't mind in a brochure or a cover letter - I have decided I just can't compete in price and will rely on word of mouth customers and referrals therefrom. In contrast to all this talk of low-ballers. Discerning homeowners who want the best in quality - expect to pay for it - and would probably be suspicious of low bids. I just wish I was in contact with more homeowners like that.

[Proclean 14]

Dan

In every major market that I've studied, there is more wood in need of restoration or preservation than there are qualified wood restoration contractors.

In other words, the demand exceeds the supply.

In every market, there are those customers seeking quality.

Wood-Tux does last longer and cut down on the required maintenance. Rather than yearly maintenance, it only requires attention every two to three years. The maintenance is extremely easy, and much faster than other products that require you to strip the entire surface each time you return for maintenance.

When you are selling to customers based on quality, you will do fewer jobs for more money. Because you don't have to go back every year for maintenance you can schedule more new work at your premium. The customers who demand quality aren't going to forget you in 3 or 4 years. They will remember you and appreciate that you delivered the quality they desired.

Russell, stop it. Am I stealing your business model or are you stealing mine?!.

The demand vs supply in the Atlanta market is untouched. The above quote here is 100% right on. To all, Russell has hit the nail on the head.

[Mike W 14]

WOW! That's amazing insight. It seems that in my area there are a lot of people who claim to do wood restoration (most not legit). I have seen their work and I am not impressed. The funny thing is a lot of them are charging fair rates for high quality service, but not delivering. I personally know a guy like that. He is afraid that I may take some of his customers away if I charge FMV for top notch service. He has been 'washing and sealing' the same decks every year for the past three years. Everytime cleans w/ bleach and "high pressure". I don't want to stomp on his toes, but will not compromise my quality of work to keep him in business. Is it possible that I can charge more than these guys if providing a better product? Like I said, some of them are geting paid pretty standard rates here.

[PressurePros 249]

Absolutley. I was just playing around at Russell's expense. I sell higher priced jobs because certain customers will pay for quality. Quality in a wood sealer means I am not charging them for resealing every single year and chasing maintenance jobs versus higher margin strip and seal. Every one of my Wood Tux customers still sees me(or someone) and gets billed yearly for maintenance cleaning. Difference is, maintenance work at $250 entails using a garden hose and some soap. I have about 70 maintenance cleanings scheduled for the beginning of April and they should take about 10 work days to do. About a third of them will also need a housewash so they will just get squirted with that mix.

As you grow and sustain quality customers with quality work and products your business will become self generating. Your maintenance contracts become very lucrative. If I had to reseal every deck, every season, I wouldn't be able to grow my database. I don't use Wood Tux exclusively but every year I lean more and more that way and with Wood Rich now available I may end up going all ESI.

[James 625]

Paul , I agree there is not many qualified woodies out there . But there are many sucsessful operations with a different Business model based on perventive maintenance. Where the maintenance is more profitable and cheaper over the life of the deck. You have know idea what a deck looks like or what has happened after two years to many varibles> I build a better relationship with the customer and have Quality Control over the property by doing annuals. I still take care of my first deck (paid) done over ten time's with ABR and switched to RS. Never stripped, cleaned with bleach(BDA) and a

lite moisturization. I have customers get irrational if I skip a year.They love the service.

[Proclean 14]

I didn't say nor would I say that my business model would work for someone else. it problably would not. We all are different. A good thing.

For example, I have customers ask if I can wash the house. 90% of the time I tell them no. If I do say yes, they pay me very well. I just don't want to wash houses, driveways or gutters. I deal with wood and have decks lined up. It sounds liked your business works very well with what you do.

Let us all be successful with what works for each of us.

[RPetry 564]

Paul says:

I just don't want to wash houses, driveways or gutters. I deal with wood and have decks lined up.

Amen to that. Same here, even if the money's good, just don't care for spraying water.

Funny how woodies work. Maintenance jobs for us are much more profitable than initial prep and stain. Labor alone is on average ~ 40% less.

Russell says:

Wood-Tux does last longer and cut down on the required maintenance. Rather than yearly maintenance, it only requires attention every two to three years.

Russell, this is disingenuous and quite frankly nonsense. WTW may very well last 3 yrs., don't know as I've only used it once. But name one premium, specialty exterior wood stain that requires yearly maintenance, at least here in the northeast U.S. Baker's Gray Away?, Ready Seal?, Woodrich?

If any contractor using these stains had to redo their work every year, in normal markets they would soon be out of business. Any contractor that has had this lifetime with these stains either does not have a clue on how to prep the wood correctly, does not know or care what a moisture meter is, or is so cheaply priced that they can't afford to put the required amount of stain into the wood the first time around.

I have been using RS for years, and have had one, yes one, deck that needed more oil the following year. This was a cedar restoration that required a Makita and 12 defelting pads to get rid of virtual globs of old stain. The wood was "burnished", similar to a hard sanding with 120 grit.

RS is a two year stain. Baker's Gray Away is a two year stain. I would assume Woodrich is a two year stain.

Enough of this misinformation so prevalent here on TGS. It's B.S. and anyone specializing in exterior wood for any length of time should know it.

Russell, tell you what. Next time you are in this area, lets have lunch. This is a friendly, open invitation and I'm serious. I'll buy. We will go over to a beautiful neighborhood that I work in outside of Princeton. There is one deck that gets full sun and was stained with RS in May 2005. No more than 50 yards further on, is a shaded deck that was stained with WTW in Nov. 2005.

Same builder, same wood, constructed at the same time, aside from exposure, virtually the same deck. Lets take a good look at the wood. I'm sure you could teach me something, always more than willing to learn.

And not afraid to admit I'm wrong.

[James 625]

I have RS jobs that have gone 4 Years and could be oiled the same day of the cleaning. What's that mean? It was still working!!

I have 10 decks in varying degrees of Testing with WTW on them. Different wood types, appying after 2 month,4,and6. Putting RS down first and WTW on top. And WoodRick on one deck. Why? I've talked to Russel and I have done alot of testing. It's worth a try.

My skepticisum is as a Wood Expert with many years of knowledge. Is what do we strip off all the time? Products that form barriers and films.Why? Because they degrade, trap moisture and have to be stripped( TheyCause more problems over time). Layer's were built up over something that you can't build layer's over.Once this type of finish is applyed nothing goes beyond that point( into the wood). What does WTW do ? Time will tell !

Woodcare is a craft that you evolve from the experience of doing Maintenance. Watching what happens over time to the wood type and finish type and being able to solve those issue's will give people the ability to make smart decisions.

The majority of Wood restoration Newbe's quit after the second call back. Why? Because it's been 3 to 4 years and the finish needs to be removed and they just cleaned the deck then try to apply the product. Costumer very unhappy doesn't pay for work ect.... Year later they call me .

[Jarrod 22]

Russell, this is disingenuous and quite frankly nonsense. WTW may very well last 3 yrs., don't know as I've only used it once. But name one premium, specialty exterior wood stain that requires yearly maintenance, at least here in the northeast U.S. Baker's Gray Away?, Ready Seal?, Woodrich?

If any contractor using these stains had to redo their work every year, in normal markets they would soon be out of business. Any contractor that has had this lifetime with these stains either does not have a clue on how to prep the wood correctly, does not know or care what a moisture meter is, or is so cheaply priced that they can't afford to put the required amount of stain into the wood the first time around.

Enough of this misinformation so prevalent here on TGS. It's B.S. and anyone specializing in exterior wood for any length of time should know it.

.

Easy Rick. I wouldn't say that Russell is being 'disingenuous' as you stated. If you really think that he is, then please explain. You RS guys simply have a different business model than others. There's two kinds of wood contractors -

Type 1 - Every time they see a deck, a certain Barry White song plays in their head. They can't wait to make sweet love to the deck and take their time caring for it. It doesn't matter to them how long it takes either.

Type 2 - When this type sees a deck, they have $$ in their eyes. They want to get the job, complete it as efficiently as possible (without sacrificing quality) and get paid.

In both scenarios, the deck was restored and looks great.

I'm a type 2. I'll save Barry White for when I get home.

[Russell Cissell 65]

Rick

I'm not challenging your success, you've obviously got a business model that works well for you. I'm not trying to disparage your choice of products. I know Ready Seal is a good product when applied correctly. If you go back about a decade, I used to sell hundreds of gallons to contractors and homeowners here in St. Louis.

I was speaking to a specific question. "Is it better (more profitable) to do annual maintenance or use a product like Wood-Tux that requires less frequent maintenance?"

I could spend time arguing both sides. There is a way to make either model successful. I chose to argue the side of quality because it puts me in a position to promote my product. Many people come here to learn new techniques, or tips & trick for business and even to find new products. I come here to sell products. I try to balance that with general information when I feel I can help.

Most contractors who sell service contracts have no desire to strip and reapply finish every year. They want to maintain the finish that is on the deck by keeping it clean and applying occasional re-coats. One reason they may choose to do annual as opposed to every other year is wear.

If you take average stain "A" and apply it to a deck and come back in one year, the finish will likely still look good. At that point it should still have the integrity to hold up to a washing. If you wait another year and try to wash it, you will likely remove too much pigment in some areas. This could result in an uneven finish causing you to have to strip the entire surface.

What I am saying is that if you let Wood-Tux age two to three years, it still has the integrity to hold up to a washing.

I understand it's human nature to be leery of sales people, and I welcome your criticisms. I will however ask that you qualify what you said.

Russell, this is disingenuous and quite frankly nonsense. Enough of this misinformation so prevalent here on TGS. It's B.S. and anyone specializing in exterior wood for any length of time should know it.

What is it exactly, that I said, that you consider to be misinformation?

[RPetry 564]

Russell,

Please. I know that you are a smart guy, and can read with the best of them. Let me try again, highlighting your untrue statement.

Wood-Tux does last longer and cut down on the required maintenance. Rather than yearly maintenance, it only requires attention every two to three years.

Again, I ask you, please tell us what premium grade exterior wood stain requires yearly maintenance.

Both you and various WTW advocates have stated or insinuated similar inaccuracies over the past few years here on TGS. It has become some kind of marketing mantra that is patently false.

In your last post you stated...

I come here to sell products.

That is all fine and good, most old hands here know this. As long as Beth & Rod allow this on their website, more power to you and ESI. But if you are going to take advantage of their largess, please be truthful. In no uncertain terms, your posted statement claims WTW lasts 2 to 3 times as long as other exterior wood stains, because other wood stains only last 1 year.

Look, ESI's WTW may be the best thing since the proverbial sliced bread. I don't know and don't think anyone else does at the moment. The product has not been used in the field long enough for any kind of rigorous evaluation. But I am sure that it is a good product that can stand on its own merits. If so, WTW deserves better marketing than specious claims directly aimed at tearing down competitors.

Now, how about that lunch?

[James 625]

I think people have to discern for themselfs and the reality check will be in a couple of years. In the mean while Russel is open game for opinion and debate. He make's it fun comming to the board Marketing a product without much history. Then He and a few maybe guilty of over zealous marketing of WTW? All I care about if I charge some one 2 grand and in 3 years it cost 3 grand to remove. Now I'm like Sikkens, Cwf, Cabotage' ect.... It doesn't fit my Business model. I only strip ONCE!!! Not something I put on.